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lom 12-08-2004 10:19 AM

Greatest Event in History
 
Hello all,first post in this forum so please be kind :)

I was sitting in Chapel at school today and I head the chaplain say 'St Luke would witness the greatest event in history.' And it got me thinking, was Jesus Christ really the greatest event that has ever happened? He has affected millions of people in millions of ways but are they all positive? Is his life really the best thing to have happened to humans. Being an atheist myself I feel biased in thinking it wasn't but I'm struggling to find something truely better.
I do not dispute it was a profound moment, him being the son of God or not. His influence has changed the western world, or perhaps created it as we know it today? But is this necessarily a good thing? Wars have been fought in his name and thousands have died upholding the morals he preached. Perhaps in modern times this is acceptable as fairness and kindness are things all people should benefit from. But I have to question if the morals inflicted on the Muslims during the crusades or to some extent today in Iraq really warrant it. But I digress.
Was the birth of Jesus Christ the greatest event ever witnessed? What do you think?

L

the_marq 12-08-2004 10:25 AM

I have a few questions:

*Whether or not Jesus was the son of God or not is highly debateable, especialy on the TFP. He was a pretty good guy, and probably good public speaker, but there are a lot of doubters about his lineage to God. (Hey isn't today the first day of Chaunaka?)
*Was St. Luke really at the birth of Jesus? I thought he didn't meet Jesus till about 20 years later.
*If you are an athiest why are you at a Christian school?

tropple 12-08-2004 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lom
Hello all,first post in this forum so please be kind :)

/snip was Jesus Christ really the greatest event that has ever happened? He has affected millions of people in millions of ways but are they all positive?

/snip

L

I read that three times before it made sense. I kept reading affected as afflicted.

I'm of the mind that religion is some god's way of depopulating the earth so he can sell it to aliens for a new thruway.

Daoust 12-08-2004 10:43 AM

It might not be the greatest event in history to you, but it may well be to me. I suppose it's one of those subjective things.
Personally, I think it is. But I think that for a lot of reasons. But since people generally use this site to Jesus / Christianity / absolute truth bash I won't feed any fuel to their fire. Most people just want to hear the old utilitarian 'whats-good-for-you-is-good-for-you' answer anyway, so no one has their toes stepped on.

Lebell 12-08-2004 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lom
I do not dispute it was a profound moment, him being the son of God or not.

Seems to me that this is the core to your question.

If He was indeed the actual Son of God the Creater, the Alpha and Omega, the Tao, the Great Spirit, the Great I AM, etc and was indeed equivalent to the same, how could His birth, His coming to become one of us, to live and die as one of us, NOT be the greatest event in history? (That is, unless you wanted to argue that His Death and Resurrection was the greatest event.)

If He wasn't then you could probably find something else that you think is greater.

tecoyah 12-08-2004 10:45 AM

Greatest event in the History of the world.

The mutation that allowed for self replication in rudimentary life.

Master_Shake 12-08-2004 11:04 AM

Ahh, but self-replication in rudimentary life isn't really part of History (with the capital H, being recorded history of humanity).

If we must choose events, and not processes (such as the development of language, etc...) then the question becomes, what makes an event great?

Having the largest impact on the largest number of people?
That seems reasonable. But does the event have to be caused by humanity? What about natural phenomana that occur while we're here to record it?

Apollo 11 moon landing?
WWII?
Publication of the Gutenberg Bible? (not as religious importance, but as technological/communicative importance)

The secret talks between Eisenhower and aliens to contaminate the public's drinking water supply with the mind control substance flouride to create a docile population suitable for slave labour?

Daoust 12-08-2004 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah
Greatest event in the History of the world.

The mutation that allowed for self replication in rudimentary life.


No offense, but I have a much easier time believing in the reality of a Creator/Sustainer/Triune/Omnipotent/Omniscient/Invisible/Heaven Dwelling God-man dying for the sins of mankind on a cross before I could ever swallow that bit of evolutionary guesswork.

Grasshopper Green 12-08-2004 11:37 AM

No, I don't think it is. I'm not Christian, so it's not as important to me as it would be others. I'd want to say the first written language would be the greatest event in history, but for for an event with actual concrete evidence, I'd say dropping the atom bomb.

Bill O'Rights 12-08-2004 11:46 AM

It depends. If you are a follower of the Christian faith, and believe that Jesus was truly the Son of God...then yes, absolutely this was the greatest event in history. If, however, you fall into my camp...the non-believers...then it was simply the most significant event in history.

CSflim 12-08-2004 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights
It depends. If you are a follower of the Christian faith, and believe that Jesus was truly the Son of God...then yes, absolutely this was the greatest event in history. If, however, you fall into my camp...the non-believers...then it was simply the most significant event in history.

As a non-believer I have to disagree with you that the birth of Jesus was the most significant event in history.

Quite significant yes, but if it hadn't been Jesus, it would have been someone else.

CSflim 12-08-2004 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa99
No, I don't think it is. I'm not Christian, so it's not as important to me as it would be others. I'd want to say the first written language would be the greatest event in history

That's a good answer, but why specifically written langauge?

Perhaps the emergence of language in general? That would certainly be an incredibly significant event, but perhaps it doesn't really count as an "event" - not nearly discrete enough.

I think all of the truly great occurances in history suffer from this: they are not individual discrete events, hence it is hard to answer the question that the thread starter posed.

irateplatypus 12-08-2004 12:03 PM

i would argue that the birth of jesus is nothing without the resurrection.

ScottKuma 12-08-2004 12:08 PM

I think the creation of the printing press would be one of the greatest events in history.

This single event made book-making, printing, and the likes much more economical, both in time & monetary terms, thus making knowledge more easily accessible to the masses.

I am speculating somewhat, but I think that history will record the dawn of the Internet as a particularly great event for much the same reason.

For DISCRETE events, I might pose the following (and note that I'm using the judgement-neutral definition of GREAT...as in large, most significant, etc.):

* Assassination of the Arch-Duke Ferdinand
* Dropping of the Atomic Bomb on Hiroshima

and, because I'm unabashedly American:

* Creation & Signing of the United States Constitution


Discuss!

lom 12-08-2004 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_marq
I have a few questions:

*Whether or not Jesus was the son of God or not is highly debateable, especialy on the TFP. He was a pretty good guy, and probably good public speaker, but there are a lot of doubters about his lineage to God. (Hey isn't today the first day of Chaunaka?)
*Was St. Luke really at the birth of Jesus? I thought he didn't meet Jesus till about 20 years later.
*If you are an athiest why are you at a Christian school?

As these were directed at me I will answer although others have made very interesting points too.

Whether he is the son of God or not is important but perhaps not as much as I first thought. If he is the son of God his importance is obvious and the event of his birth is equally as important. If not does it matter? The fact he has had an effect on so much we believe in today, our morals in society, the way we think of other people, of life in general.

I realise St Luke did not witness Jesus' birth and I think I have phrased it badly from the way chaplain did earlier today. It should read St Luke witnessing Jesus life, not necessarily his birth. This does change the basis of my question and brings in the new idea; which part of jesus life.

I live in England and here we are supposed to have a 'token religious' event everyday! At my school we have one a week where everyone must attend 'chapel' in the Church, and two assemblys with a prayer a hymn and notices about the school day. So yes it is quite strange but we have Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus here too who must also attend the services. Even more strange, our Chaplain is Roman Catholic and the school is actually Church Of England.

Coppertop 12-08-2004 12:34 PM

Anything that has already happened and considered great will be trumped when mankind makes contact with an extraterrestrial intelligence.

ARTelevision 12-08-2004 12:44 PM

Obviously the greatest event in history is today itself.

Ustwo 12-08-2004 12:51 PM

From my perspective the most important event was my birth.

;)

lom 12-08-2004 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo
From my perspective the most important event was my birth.

;)

How very big of you. ;)

Publius 12-08-2004 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lom
I was sitting in Chapel at school today and I head the chaplain say 'St Luke would witness the greatest event in history.' And it got me thinking, was Jesus Christ really the greatest event that has ever happened?

Welcome to forum Lom I’ll try to be as kind as I can. First of all, I had to suppress a laugh when I read this sniped quote from your post. It seems to me that if this is what your pastor really said (or implied) then he needs to go back and reread his traditional biblical history. St. Luke was a convert well after Jesus’ death and resurrection. Luke was a companion of Paul and wrote his gospel based on accounts told to him by followers of Jesus, not from firsthand knowledge. Now while I know that the bases of your question is not effected by this information, its little biblical inaccuracies like this that really drive me nuts. (For a full account of the traditional biblical history of Luke see here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09420a.htm)

Now as for your underlying question, I have two possible answers. One, if I am guessing as to what the most significant historical event is that effects my life today, I would have to say that it was my own birth. Without that, well ... And this event will only be closely followed by my own death (hopefully many years to come).

Taking a larger world view of event, however, I would say that the most significant event in human history (anything pre-human is right out so far as I’m concerned) was probably Abraham. From Abraham we have end up with the 3 of the world’s major religions (Judaism, Christianity, Muslim). Again, taking a global view, I would have to argue that Abraham’s legacy has had a much large effect on world politics for a much longer period of time (about double) then that of Jesus. (Now I would also concede that a Christian would likely view Jesus as the most important event, but for which there would be no hope of salvation, but just to play devil’s advocate (no pun intended) I would have to argue that Adam and Eve’s first sin was actually a larger event but for which there would have been no need for Jesus.)

lom 12-08-2004 01:14 PM

On the chaplain, it is possible I misheard, I hardly listen to these little addresses! But as you have said it does not dramatically affect the basis of my question.

Interesting to look at a purely religious perspective though. I posted this on another forum and almost all the replies simply said Jesus didn't exist and therefore the invention of fire was the greatest event, or a variation on that.

the_marq 12-08-2004 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lom
I live in England and here we are supposed to have a 'token religious' event everyday! At my school we have one a week where everyone must attend 'chapel' in the Church, and two assemblys with a prayer a hymn and notices about the school day. So yes it is quite strange but we have Muslims, Sikhs, and Hindus here too who must also attend the services. Even more strange, our Chaplain is Roman Catholic and the school is actually Church Of England.

You're joking right?

I know I am ignoring your actual question, but I am obsessed with this fact: Universities and Colleges in the UK are FORCING students into religious ceremonies in direct contravention with their beliefs.

Do they all do this or is yours a special case?

lom 12-08-2004 01:44 PM

I'm not exactly sure. But this year we have been given a new timetable and everyone complained about still having chaple (now in our lunch break!) and we were told that we have to do it and we should have some sort of religious event every day.

I do not think they are forced to attend and I am almost positive they do not have to attend chaple. But thinking about it, ALL full boarders have to go to chaple on sunday for the service then and we ALL have to go to boarders singing practice on friday morning in preparation for the service on sunday whether we are going or not.
I do not think they would be made to go if they said they didn't want to.

HOWEVER, assemblys are a different story. I think they would be forced to attend because it is more of a school event, everyone comes together just to be a school, rather than to practice christianity. They do not have to sing the hymns or pray.

Also on a slightly more positive note for my school during Ramadan Muslims are excused from lessons to eat after the sun sets. They also have special Halal food at lunch, breakfast and dinner everyday. We also learn about Muslim in our GCSE (14-15 yr old) exams. Both from the point of ethical and philosophical issues and also from the point of general belief.
Other religions are in an extreme minority maybe 2 or 3 boys out of 500 so are not really accounted for in this way. I'm sure allowances would be made if they made their opinions heard though.

In respect of generalising for the UK I think my school is a special case. It is a public (you pay to attend) traditional boarding school. There is ALOT of tradition in the school (we have a Christian church in our grounds) and I think it is right to uphold this especially as some allowances have been made.
Saying this my old school up to the age of 13 was much less liberal. It was EXTREMELY old fashioned but has recently changed headmaster and I understand it has changed dramatically.

If you want to ask someone who knows alot more than I do please feel free to visit our website www.bedfordschool.org.uk emailing the Head or another member of staff would surely be welcomed.

the_marq 12-08-2004 01:53 PM

Oh... well that's different. I didn't realise you were in a "Private High School" (as they are called in Canada). I had assumed you were in University or College.

When you are under the age of 18 and your parents are paying your way I can understand you being forced into various religous activites. It would be different if we were talking about adults.

Move along... sorry to digress from the original thread.

MojoRisin 12-08-2004 03:44 PM

WeLcOme tO thE LaND of MaKE bELIEve!!!

Bill O'Rights 12-09-2004 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSflim
As a non-believer I have to disagree with you that the birth of Jesus was the most significant event in history.

Quite significant yes, but if it hadn't been Jesus, it would have been someone else.

The reason that I say that the birth of Jesus was the most significant event in history, is that no other, one single man, has influenced so many, for so long, before...or since.

And I agree, if it hadn't been Jesus, then it most certainly would have been someone else. Fact is, though, it was Jesus. Therefore, by default, it was his birth that I consider to be the most significant event in history. Not the greatest...but certainly the most significant.

Paul67 12-09-2004 05:45 AM

Actually, I think it was the greatest hoax ever perpetrated.

tecoyah 12-09-2004 07:07 AM

What about the Birth of the Buddah.....Or Mohammad?

I would think the sheer numbers of people influenced by the latter rivals the followers of Jesus.....after all this is the history of " The World"....Right?

roachboy 12-09-2004 07:09 AM

"every rebel just a rebel in a story."
--linton kwesi johnson

event?
what is an event?
where does an event stop and start?

history?
which one? is there only a single history? according to who?

if there is a single history, you would think that an Important Event (whatever that means) would reveal its significance by shifting the understanding of time.
if that is the criterion, then BCE/AD....
but of course, christians foisted this on the rest of us.
any claim that there is a single history is therfore already balled up with that prticular religious ideology and its pretensions to be other than a particular religious ideology.
it does not require a rocket scientist to see that for christians, the jesus story would be a significant sequence of events.

by the way, what do you imagine year 0 meant to the people who lived through it?
do you think they addressed letters to each other "24 april, 0" for example?
how did they know that it was year 0?
what would it have been like to live through the Zero?

Furry 12-09-2004 07:26 AM

First moon landing.

Willravel 12-09-2004 09:33 AM

Greatest: Did anyone see Shatner preform "Rocketman" in the 1978 Science Fiction Film Awards?
Second greatest: What about the release of Jawanaman?

In all seriousness, I think that the greatest event in history would be the creation of the universe, whether done by God or big banged.

flstf 12-09-2004 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coppertop
Anything that has already happened and considered great will be trumped when mankind makes contact with an extraterrestrial intelligence.

Agreed. Unless we are once again struck by a extinction class comet or asteroid now circling around the asteroid belt. One of them probably has our name on it again. Of course we could advance enough to get off this planet and/or defend ourselves by then.

Coppertop 12-09-2004 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah
What about the Birth of the Buddah.....Or Mohammad?

I would think the sheer numbers of people influenced by the latter rivals the followers of Jesus.....after all this is the history of " The World"....Right?

Exactly. Singling out Jesus is a Western bias I would think. The vast majority of people on this planet are not, nor have ever been, Christian.

CSflim 12-09-2004 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coppertop
Exactly. Singling out Jesus is a Western bias I would think. The vast majority of people on this planet are not, nor have ever been, Christian.

*applause*

FngKestrel 12-09-2004 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coppertop
Anything that has already happened and considered great will be trumped when mankind makes contact with an extraterrestrial intelligence.

Which will obviously be Vulcans. :lol:

Lebell 12-09-2004 12:14 PM

Actually, roughly 33% of the world practices some form of Christianity, followed by Islam at 20%.

Coppertop 12-09-2004 12:21 PM

Hence the vast majority of the world currently not being Christian. 67% by your count. Please don't forget to add every single person who lived before Christ to these numbers as well. Christianity simply doesn't have the same hold on the world as it does on Western countries.

Strange Famous 12-09-2004 12:31 PM

If Jesus was who he claimed he was, or who the bible claims he was, then his birth was not the greatest moment, but his life may have been, and what he taught people was about greatness

Strange Famous 12-09-2004 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah
What about the Birth of the Buddah.....Or Mohammad?

I would think the sheer numbers of people influenced by the latter rivals the followers of Jesus.....after all this is the history of " The World"....Right?

well, it IS different, surely?

Gautama Buddha never made any claim to be divine or connected to the divine, only that he was able to gain true enlightenment and self knowledge, from which came universal knowledge - as far as I understand.

Mohammad, even to his followers, claimed to be a great Prophet of Allah, and to be in communication with God's angels.

The claims made about Jesus, that he was a part of God, a manifestation of God in human form, are somewhat different to what could be claimed about Buddha or Mohammad.

In fact, in my opinion, Isa holds a more important place is Islamic religion than Mohammad... although Mohammad was the greatest of the prophets, it was to Isa given to lead the last war and destroy the false prophet, and it was Isa who was elivated to heaven intact because he could not die.

Whether you believe in the claims of Christianity, or see Jesus as a normal man, or even a myth, I think it is hard to argue that the impact he had on the world was not greater, and more universal, than Mohammad, Buddha, David, Guru Nanek, or even Moses.

Lebell 12-09-2004 12:43 PM

Yes, I mastered subtraction a while ago.

But this irrelevent to the discussion.

IF God exists, and IF God chose to become a human being REGARDLESS of His name, can you argue that this would not be the greatest event in human history?

tropple 12-09-2004 12:47 PM

agriculture.

Coppertop 12-09-2004 12:48 PM

If?

If god exists as the bible says he does, I would wager Eve had more influence than Jesus did.

Or Noah.

Or Lucifer.

Rdr4evr 12-09-2004 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul67
Actually, I think it was the greatest hoax ever perpetrated.

I would have to agree. I believe Jesus is the greatest hoax in the history of mankind, followed by the moon landing.

Lebell 12-09-2004 12:56 PM

This explains much :D

Publius 12-09-2004 01:27 PM

Hmm ... I’ve had time to rethink me earlier response and a few thing have occurred to me. First, if we are so assume everything said about Jesus is true (and lets for the sake of argument here) then I would have to maintain that as wonderful as his birth may have been, and outstanding as his life and teachings were, the greatest event (and this is really what we remember him for) was Jesus’ death and resurrection. Without this final event, then, Jesus would have been just another profit no different from the rest. But if we believe that this final event in Jesus’ life actually took place, then this single event is the most important in human history (that is if we are most concerned with events and not merely people).

Now if we are talking about the most influential person in history then the answer may well be different. If we want to continue focusing on biblical figures, Paul is arguably much more influential then Jesus was. Paul shaped the early church in his own image and wrote most of the new testament. We see probably more church doctrine passed off of Paul’s writings then any off Jesus’ teachings (because obviously he never wrote anything).

However, if we are looking for someone who has had an even greater impact on world history, in my mind Aristotle is the man. Not only was he the teacher of Alexander the Great, but Aristotelian ideals are what shaped western culture, including much of early church doctrine.

powerclown 12-10-2004 12:04 PM

June 5, 2004 A.D.
NBA Finals, Game 5: Detroit Pistons def. Los Angeles Lakers, 100-87
or
July 10, 1980 A.D.
The birth of Jessica Ann Simpson
or
1227 A.D.
The Fall of Genghis Khan and the Mongol Empire, aka The Golden Horde.

It's close.

Brooke 12-10-2004 02:02 PM

Techoya, that was most awsome - I have never heard the "invention of sex" described so eloquently.
*clapps for you*

but I will just say it.
the greatest human event IS the invention of Sex.
--or possible the orgasim, but I see them as being connected concepts for the most part.

lom 12-11-2004 06:23 AM

Sex was hardly invented though, ok so there must have been the first time it ever happened but at that stage we wouldn't have been human. It has always happened since nature evolved two separate sexes, and of course the dinosaurs were doing it long before us!

Lebell 12-11-2004 07:34 AM

*kids these days, they think they invented it...*

:D

Grasshopper Green 12-11-2004 09:17 AM

CSFilm: Sorry it took so long to respond :)

Anyway, I feel written language because it is the first step of the rise of advanced civilization (in my humble opinion). Humans and hominids had been communicating for long long before this, whether through speech or gestures or whatever....but with the advent of the written word humans could begin to convey and share their thoughts, ideas, etc to others. There would be no Bible to tell the birth of Jesus without the ability to write, would there? Or the birth of Mohammad or Buddha or whoever. Just my opinion though!

alansmithee 12-11-2004 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coppertop
Hence the vast majority of the world currently not being Christian. 67% by your count. Please don't forget to add every single person who lived before Christ to these numbers as well. Christianity simply doesn't have the same hold on the world as it does on Western countries.

But you seem to be forgetting that Jesus is also an important figure in Islam. Also, there should be some weight given to Western countries because of the great impact they have had on the world in general. Much of the advanced Asian cultures were very isolationist, and had relatively small areas of impact. Western colonialism brought Western culture around the world (for good or bad is a whole different discussion)

Mojo_PeiPei 12-11-2004 01:44 PM

Wars were fought on the behalf of Christianity. Remember the Battle of Tours? That was certainly a major battle in history, which was basically Islam vs. Christianity. Had Martel not won that battle, it is safe to assume none of us would exist, along with this thing we recognize as Western Civilization.

hiredgun 12-11-2004 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alansmithee
But you seem to be forgetting that Jesus is also an important figure in Islam. Also, there should be some weight given to Western countries because of the great impact they have had on the world in general. Much of the advanced Asian cultures were very isolationist, and had relatively small areas of impact. Western colonialism brought Western culture around the world (for good or bad is a whole different discussion)


The West has had "great impact'" in the last 200-400 years. During the Abbasid period, Islamic civilization was much more advanced than Europe, and cultivated many of the sciences and branches of knowledge that were later transmitted to and continued by the West after the Crusader and Mongol invasions brought the Muslim world into decline. The Arabic language was spread from a small peninsula to a huge swath of the Near East and Africa that was once composed of a variety of ethnicities and cultures but now has formed its own identity.

That's just one example. Nearly three times as many people are native speakers of Mandarin than English. Your West-centric assertion is a little short-sighted.

tecoyah 12-11-2004 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daoust
No offense, but I have a much easier time believing in the reality of a Creator/Sustainer/Triune/Omnipotent/Omniscient/Invisible/Heaven Dwelling God-man dying for the sins of mankind on a cross before I could ever swallow that bit of evolutionary guesswork.

None taken.......and of course, to each thier own.

However, should you decide to look into the science, the Data is there. Then again, there are those who believe the Moon landings were a hoax.

jonjon42 12-11-2004 08:05 PM

the greatest event in history...is my birth....

just feeling a bit narcissistic right now :p

on a more serious note:
the beginning of agricultural society

Coppertop 12-13-2004 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alansmithee
But you seem to be forgetting that Jesus is also an important figure in Islam.

Not as important as Mohammad I'd wager.
Quote:

Also, there should be some weight given to Western countries because of the great impact they have had on the world in general. Much of the advanced Asian cultures were very isolationist, and had relatively small areas of impact. Western colonialism brought Western culture around the world (for good or bad is a whole different discussion)
Sure enough. But that weight should probably rest on someone like Aristotle, Socrates or perhaps even Romulus and Remus. :D

tropple 12-14-2004 03:48 AM

You're all a bunch of whackos determined to make religion the most important thing going on.

Well, you are incorrect.

The most important thing in history is the advent of agriculture. Period. End of story. All of the cultural who-ha shit that came afterwards was made possible becasue of agrticulture. Yes, all of it.

slimshaydee 12-14-2004 05:14 AM

As a non-believer, like a few others in this thread, the birth of jesus is not the greatest event in history although it is rather significant. The invention of the wheel would be the greatest event in my eyes.

paulskinback 12-14-2004 10:51 AM

I think the greatest event in history would be the creation or harnessing of electricity.

If it weren't for that we wouldn't be having this debate.

roachboy 12-14-2004 11:18 AM

fine, but the harnessing of electricity was a process, not an event.....

Coppertop 12-14-2004 11:35 AM

Hmm, going back far enough I suppose I could say the first time one of our primitive ancestors picked up a rock or stick and hit something with it.

Then fire, then agriculture, then the wheel, etc. - all to be trumped when we make contact.

Hooray for speculation!

tropple 12-15-2004 04:20 AM

Sorry, no.

Tool use and hunting gathering didn't bring about anything except more hunting and gathering. Fire was nice, but nothing spectacular. Even the wheel is nothing special.

Nothing significant happens in any culture until they begin farming. Only agriculture gifts a people with the time to spend on anything besides food production. Consider it for a bit....

Can you think of any culture that progressed without it? Agriculture freed man to think about something besides where his next meal was coming from.

Civilization was kick-started when people began to farm. Farming let people create surplus food. That had never happened before. Family groupings and tribes were able with other groups for different foods, or perhaps for some finished good such as tanned skins or better arrows. Markets sprang up at confluences of waterways or other easily traveled routes. Population centers grew from markets. Architecture began when people needed larger structures, religions formed (not everything was good) as people dawdled away their free time. Commerce began with traders bringing goods from one market to another. Small government evolved to deal with traders. Toolmaking became a group activity instead of an individual effort. Craft guilds were born to form single marketing entities to deal with the towns and traders.

Nothing happens until agriculture creates a way to make food in excess of the daily requirements.

Coppertop 12-15-2004 10:31 AM

I agree with what you said about agriculture being important for advancing man and society, but it wasn't the first step.

It's not the using of the tool itself, but the realization that primitive man can accomplish more than other animals with the use of his opposable thumb and his mind. No longer was he a scared little rabbit, hiding from all the other animals. This allowed him to become a hunter as opposed to a gatherer, which allowed him to kill large mammals, wear thir skin for warmth, which allows migration, etc.

Please tell me what agriculture can accomplish without tools.

Suave 12-15-2004 12:31 PM

The greatest event in history was obviously my birth. :D
Nah, I think it's a bit tough (if not impossible) to discern what the "greatest" event in history is at this point, and the majority of goodness comes in small bits rather than large chunks. Now if you wanted the most awesomely devesating event in history, that would be a little easier to discern.

kinsaj 12-15-2004 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah
Greatest event in the History of the world.

The mutation that allowed for self replication in rudimentary life.

I was gonna say the first mutant that became the modern human.. but I think yours tops mine.

Ishmal 12-15-2004 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARTelevision
Obviously the greatest event in history is today itself.


aahhhh...

but today isn't history yet!!! ;)

scott_p_1 12-15-2004 06:56 PM

If you want to go the whole Jesus route, I'd say his death was more significant than his life.
Kind of like how if a rock star dies before he starts to suck, he'll be remembered at his prime forever. But if he dies after he starts to suck, people will remember him, but not quite the same way. (ie. Hendrix vs. Elvis)
I know it might seem like a wierd analogy, but it's apt I say, apt!

FngKestrel 12-15-2004 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott_p_1
If you want to go the whole Jesus route, I'd say his death was more significant than his life.
Kind of like how if a rock star dies before he starts to suck, he'll be remembered at his prime forever. But if he dies after he starts to suck, people will remember him, but not quite the same way. (ie. Hendrix vs. Elvis)
I know it might seem like a wierd analogy, but it's apt I say, apt!

I suppose it's fortunate that they didn't find Jesus dead while on the can. That probably would have tainted the whole burgeoning religion thing. :lol:

The Prophet 12-15-2004 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coppertop
Exactly. Singling out Jesus is a Western bias I would think. The vast majority of people on this planet are not, nor have ever been, Christian.

But if we are talking about influential events, I still would weigh the life of Jesus very heavily, even if you aren't Christian. Europe and the America's are predominately Christian, and if you ain't one of us, we have been trying to kick your ass ever since.

FngKestrel 12-15-2004 08:13 PM

I think the fact that Christians have been trying to kick everyone's ass is what caused the influence. I won't dispute that it's a great event, but whether it's a positive event or not depends on where you stand religiously.

The Prophet 12-15-2004 08:20 PM

I would say something less than positive, for the majority anyhow.

The Prophet 12-15-2004 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave
Now if you wanted the most awesomely devesating event in history, that would be a little easier to discern.

Why keep us waiting?

Atom Bomb? Extinction of the dinosaurs (obviously not from our perspective, but from the worlds. . .)? Or more recent perhaps - the election of Bush?

I say the death of Jerry Garcia.

ScottKuma 12-23-2004 06:50 AM

John Lennon marrying Yoko Ono?

OFKU0 12-23-2004 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul67
Actually, I think it was the greatest hoax ever perpetrated.

That's funny because the other day me and a bud were enjoying some fine single malt scotch and got onto the topic of: If a meteor hit the earth and wiped everything out except for one single copy of Harry Potter, would in a billion years when the human race resursurfaced, would they think of that book as our spiritual guide just like the bible.

Anyways we laughed and drank more. Talisker will do that from time to time.

Drayab 12-23-2004 01:03 PM

Whether or not Jesus was who the Bible says he is doesn't change the answer to me. Creation, whether natural or by God, was the most important event.

cyrnel 12-23-2004 01:37 PM

In my history it has to be open source.

When it grew from a hobbyist mentality to a philosophy and movement it got legs.

From the pioneering of Stallman to Torvalds' breakout and the descendent accomplishments of countless contributors, the number of enabling technolgies, technical and commercial obstacles overcome, open source will touch every form of life on Earth. (and beyond, should we find any)

Of course, water eventually touches every form of life on Earth but long nights leave me feeling dramatic.

(ducking)
---
SkyNet will begin on sourceforge.

Stiltzkin 12-31-2004 01:27 AM

To me, the greatest event in history is my birth.

Without that, I would be nowhere, so how can it not be the greatest event in history (for me) ?

hoosier52 01-07-2005 08:27 PM

I say Jesus Christ because whether you believe he was divine or not, or whether he has been a positive influence or not, he nevertheless has had a tremendous impact on major portions of the world for the last 2000 years. I can't say that about anyone else. Look at this forum where we've argued pro and con about the significance of Jesus life for days and not just this thread but many others as well.

To all those that think their birthday is the greatest event in history; maybe everyone is just trying to be funny but you're not really adressing the question. Your births may be most signigicant to you or your family but hardly has been much impact on the rest of the world. Of course one of you may turn out to be the much awaited Jewish messiah or maybe even the anti-christ from the Bible, at which time we will have to debate anew. :)

Cowman 01-07-2005 09:10 PM

I just wanted to say, that im not a big fan of the whole "asking questions" to answer a question.

Just state your opinion dammit.

none of this

that?
who?
when???
what?
but what if..??

haha

john_713 01-10-2005 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosier52

To all those that think their birthday is the greatest event in history; maybe everyone is just trying to be funny but you're not really adressing the question. :)

Well i was born on christmas day so i guess it is the most important ;) :p

Ok less funny....for me it would have to be the Ending of the second world. Ok so many events have had alot more significance to the world and civilisation in general. But imagine if Hitler had taken over europe and possibly more? My life at least would be very different. If that conflict had been allowed to continue and Hitler emerged victorious all that we had built on over our thousands of years of civilation would be lost. We would have gone back to the dark ages where people were ruled by oppressive kings. The Jews would be all but erradicated and a possible nuclear conflict might have occurred with the US.

Coppertop 01-10-2005 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john_713
Well i was born on christmas day so i guess it is the most important ;) :p

Ok less funny....for me it would have to be the Ending of the second world. Ok so many events have had alot more significance to the world and civilisation in general. But imagine if Hitler had taken over europe and possibly more? My life at least would be very different. If that conflict had been allowed to continue and Hitler emerged victorious all that we had built on over our thousands of years of civilation would be lost. We would have gone back to the dark ages where people were ruled by oppressive kings. The Jews would be all but erradicated and a possible nuclear conflict might have occurred with the US.

Hitler did take over Europe as well as large chunks of Africa and Asia. But I suppose you meant England specifically? And last time I checked, there are still places "were people were ruled by oppressive kings." It's just that we seldom call them kings now.

But yes, the outcome of WW2 had an enormous influence on world politics after its conclusion.

john_713 01-10-2005 12:06 PM

I mean took control and kept control and continue control until the present day. England would be included in this, as well as Russia.

I realise tyrannical rulers still exist today but what chance would there be of removing them without any sort of democratic reigime in europe? Of course there is the US but they will find it difficult with the Japanese in the Pacific and Germans in the atlantic to mount any sort of liberation except on the south american peninsula.

Of course all this is my imagination but I'm sure something much worse could have happened without my greatest event. :)

Stompy 01-10-2005 01:36 PM

Jesus? WTF? Hahaha. How can that be the "greatest event in history" when it's not even certain that he existed?

Aaaaanyway...

Easy: Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

Not only does it show how much we've progressed as a conscious intelligent species, but this could quite easily be the key to opening doors in finding the answer to life (and everything else) in general.

tecoyah 01-10-2005 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecoyah
Greatest event in the History of the world.

The mutation that allowed for self replication in rudimentary life.

I still think this tops the list....without it, nothing else would exist to be considered.

martinguerre 01-10-2005 06:56 PM

the resurrection of the Christ. and while i respectfully consider the opposition on this matter, i simply ask that you show the same back.

john_713 01-11-2005 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy
Jesus? WTF? Hahaha. How can that be the "greatest event in history" when it's not even certain that he existed?

Does it matter if he did or not? The reprocussions of the mere thought he existed have changed the world unrecognisably from what it could have been like without him.

Stompy 01-11-2005 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john_713
Does it matter if he did or not? The reprocussions of the mere thought he existed have changed the world unrecognisably from what it could have been like without him.

So you're pretty much saying any religion that man came up with?

Christ matters very little to a Buddist and really only matters to those who believe in him I guess. Just like Buddhism and Christianity are pretty much meaningless to me. Doesn't affect me whatsoever, except the limitations imposed upon me by the laws that are created around these ideals.

Something like the Theory of Relativity and the knowledge that has been gained from it... affects everyone. Unless, of course, you live in the mountains and don't care to make use of this knowledge.

I figured this would be more of a "something that affects everyone" type of event. If so, Christ, or any religion for that matter, probably wouldn't be at the top of the list for the mere fact it seems to hinder progression of man (wars, hate, hypocrisy, etc).

The ideas behing them, perhaps. Love your neighbor, do unto others, and so on. Those are good, but I wouldn't consider that an event - just your basic respect for other humans.

asaris 01-11-2005 08:12 AM

Yes, but the difference is that, through the colonialism of Europe, Christianity has had a much larger effect on the whole world than Buddhism.

bendsley 01-11-2005 08:15 AM

Greatest event in the history of the world?

I would have to say the start of history itself. A split second after the world was "born", we suddenly have a past. Something that was never there before.

SntrRck 01-11-2005 09:42 PM

The most significant event in human history is something smallish compared to ideas tossed around earlier (Jesus’ birth, start of farming, etc.) but it gains it's significance in that it prevented what would have been the most terrible of human events.

I'm talking about the peaceful resolution to the Cuban Missile Crisis. This planet was one mistake away from global nuclear war, which would have effectively ended human history for, at least, a very long time. So I think the prevention of world war three during the Cuban Missile Crisis is the most significant event in human history.

Halx 01-11-2005 09:52 PM

I think the internet is the greatest thing to ever happen to the world. Sure, there were a lot of things that happened along the way to make it possible, and it's true potential has yet to be reached, but from where I'm standing, all of the other events in history only effected a small subsection of the earth's population. (Hitler... ehh... worse tragedies have occurred, they just aren't so recent) The internet will be around for a while and it will continue to grow. It will outlive countries and the people who were effected by the wars it chronicles. All the while it will continue to become the center of our universe. Sun? What sun? Microsystems?

killeena 01-12-2005 09:36 AM

I don't know about the greatest event ever, but I think the beginnings of space travel rank up there. If/when the end of the world comes, be it something man made, or the sun exploding, it will be nice to be able to get off this planet and colonize another, and it will have all started from the first flights into space.

frogza 01-12-2005 12:04 PM

When men realized that they weren't like the other animals and therefore needed a different standard by which to live. The way I see it, that's what led to all of our advances and, without fail, when people revert to a more animalistic law we see terrible things happen.

Zenir 01-12-2005 12:53 PM

People, stop questioning yourself and put your ideas on the line. Plenty of other people can question you and I am sure you have considered and interigated your own ideas to the limit of eaches own abilities of the moment. I believe that the greatest moment of recorded history is when we realized that there is an infinity and came to grasps with the capabilities therein. In my personal history I would have to say the wave-point theorem. It made us realize that perhaps just because you start with a given set you may not always arrive to the same answer.

zenkat911 01-12-2005 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lom
How very big of you. ;)

and accurate.

john_713 01-13-2005 07:28 AM

Perhaps, from the responses here I would say we are looking at the greatest event in history, for history. An individuals birth is not going to effect history massively except for them, we have even questioned the importance of the Birth of Jesus and he was the son of God!

Stompy 01-13-2005 09:03 AM

Luke Skywalker is Darth Vader's son. Still is.

Master_Shake 01-13-2005 12:29 PM

Stompy; word. Who was it that said the "Empire Strikes Back" was our generation's Vietnam?

MSD 01-13-2005 11:53 PM

Since history is defined as a record of events, I would say that the greatest moment was the first time manking willfully touched an object to a surface with the intent of marking that surface. That mark, although it is most likely lost forever, is the beginning of history, and therefore the greatest event because without it, history would not exist.

Baron Opal 01-22-2005 04:26 AM

The greatest event ever is obviously what is recorded on the Phaistos Disk.


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