Is life a test? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

paulskinback · 11-29-2004, 12:38 PM

Could life be a test in the "bigger scheme of things"? We have the freedom to do whatever we want (as long as we can suffer the consequences), and are the most conscious creatures on the planet (debateable, i know). What happens if we "fail" the test? I don't believe necessarily in God (or the God that is taught to us) so answers on a postcard... any alternative religious thoughts welcome...!

Glenn Hoddle once said (if you believe in reincarnation) that disabled people are those being punished from a former life... I don't believe in this but its along the same lines.

Ustwo · 11-29-2004, 01:15 PM

Life may be a test, but since no one told us what was covered on the test, we just gotta muddle through the best we can.

Lebell · 11-29-2004, 01:16 PM

I have often wondered if this existence that we know isn't a test for some greater existence.

I know that I wouldn't want to give my kid the keys to the family car until he proved himself.

Maybe God is doing the same thing.

paulskinback · 11-29-2004, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Life may be a test, but since no one told us what was covered on the test, we just gotta muddle through the best we can.

I think if we knew, then we would obviously know the meaning of life (please no quotes from hitchhikers guide!)

But I think just bumping along until you die doesn't seem like much fun...

martinguerre · 11-29-2004, 01:50 PM

it's not a useful idea for me.

it downplays the consequences of what we do. the worst that can happen in a test is that you fail. You, personally.

The worst that can happen in life is to harm other life. Other, not you.

frankly, i think the latter is more serious, and deserves our attention. there are certainly things about life that are testing, but i rest in God's grace. Pass/Fail and win/lose are inadequate to describe the just mercy of God. God both confronts our failing, and reconciles us to God's love. I don't think that when i see the word "test."

paulskinback · 11-29-2004, 01:55 PM

Ok, didn't want to get into this but what about a suicide bomber? in their eyes they are passing the ultimate test - to be a martyr for their god and to be rewarded in the richest way (which somehow involves virgins and breaking them in - but thats another story)

would this act, including taking the lives of others, be seen as the ultimate love for God?

lukethebandgeek · 11-29-2004, 02:02 PM

The test is one of personal virtue and comitment. One must transend one's being to pass the test. The reward is paradise. A failing grade means that you must take the test again.

The Suicide bombers are those who don't read the directions fully on the test and didn't do thier homework. They think they've got the right answer, but they fail.

Howabout that?

paulskinback · 11-29-2004, 02:13 PM

I agree that the "martyrs" have the wrong idea, possibly (highly possible) that they were brainwashed.

Is searching the internet going to make me wiser in this matter, or should I be more religious in my quest for knowledge

The computer says "no"

11-29-2004, 02:31 PM

I don't know about life being a test for something else. Doesn't it make sense that living the right way can mean that you pass your own test for this life?

11-29-2004, 02:32 PM

What if a belief in the "bigger scheme of things" meant you failed the test?

flstf · 11-29-2004, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulskinback

Ok, didn't want to get into this but what about a suicide bomber? in their eyes they are passing the ultimate test - to be a martyr for their god and to be rewarded in the richest way (which somehow involves virgins and breaking them in - but thats another story)

I wonder if this is the virgin's version of hell.

I suspect that in this universe our little insignificant lifeform is not important enough to justify any kind of test no matter how important we think ourselves to be.

d*d · 11-30-2004, 01:13 AM

test - don't be silly, it's a lesson

WillyPete · 11-30-2004, 02:47 AM

This is a fundamental portion of a lot of religions, the Mormons being one of them.

Their belief is of all of us pre-existing as spirits, then getting a body and coming to earth to be tested according to our free will having been made to forget about the pre-life so that all choices are based on faith. What we achieve here will determine our fate. Not just Heaven and hell, but different levels of each according to what we have learnt and lived. It wuld be a cruel god that lumped the tax dodger or liar with the child molesters.

They have a saying that "the natural man is an enemy to God", meaning that one must elevate one's self above the base desires that commonly drive us and seek to learn to control the physical form.

Just some interesting stuff I learnt from my parents and some friends.

Slavakion · 11-30-2004, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulskinback

I agree that the "martyrs" have the wrong idea, possibly (highly possible) that they were brainwashed.

All martyrs, or are you just talking about suicide bombers? People who die for what they believe in aren't always crazy. If America turned into a police state and I died because I tried to start a revolution and that started a revolution that liberated us all, that's worth it.

paulskinback · 12-01-2004, 05:11 AM

no just the so-called martyrs, thats why it was in inverted commas, I think to die for what you truly believe in can be a good thing especially if it opens other peoples eyes to your cause.

ARTelevision · 12-01-2004, 07:16 AM

I never think of this as a test.

What kind of context would it have to exist in for that to be the case? I don't see life taking place within subsets of larger contexts. It is, put most simply, experience.

WillyPete · 12-02-2004, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARTelevision

I never think of this as a test.

What kind of context would it have to exist in for that to be the case? I don't see life taking place within subsets of larger contexts. It is, put most simply, experience.

It's a test if you think on terms of the physical form only being a temporary phase.
You'd have to believe in immortality of the soul in that case, both pre- and post- 'this mortal coil'.

ARTelevision · 12-02-2004, 12:03 PM

...yes, you would have to "believe" in that sort of thing.

Why would anyone "believe" in that sort of thing?

Master_Shake · 12-02-2004, 01:50 PM

In Douglass Adams "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" books the Earth turns out to have been a super-massive computer designed to run for the purpose of coming up with the question to the answer to life, the universe and everything. Human beings and other organisms form part of the incredibly advanced matrix that serves as the computer's processor.

Then the Earth is destroyed by the Vogons to make way for an interstellar bypass minutes before it completes it's mission.

Then things get even more complicated in successive books. But the core idea is pretty funny.

And the answer is 42.

klo · 12-02-2004, 02:04 PM

Maybe, Maybe not. Because if your being tested, then where do you go afterwards? Sigh... My thinking is making me think weird.

WillyPete · 12-03-2004, 03:32 AM

The question is only important if you believed in immortality.
So to someone that believes that there is somewhere after this, then it's not such a 'weird' concept.

For me, weird is the reborn christians' emphasis on grace.
Ask them if they get to heaven becauseof their works. They'll spout hellfire and say it's ONLY through grace. Then ask if that means it's ok to live as bad as you want as long as you believe in Jesus' Grace. "Of course not", they reply. You have to live a good life too.
"Ah, so getting to heaven IS dependent on your works?"

Watch the wheels spin in the sand.

That one is beyond my logic. (or do I need a lack thereof to understand it?)

12-03-2004, 06:30 AM

If you believe that life is a test for another, bigger life, then is that life a test too? And what about the one after that? And after that? When do the tests stop?

Thinking like this just takes you in circles and is both a waste of time and can be dangerous for those who take it seriously.

ARTelevision · 12-03-2004, 06:36 AM

I'm still wondering why anyone would want to "believe" in this sort of thing...

12-03-2004, 06:39 AM

What do you mean Art?

Want to believe? Do they have a choice?

ARTelevision · 12-03-2004, 09:36 AM

How could we not have a "choice" in what to "believe"?

WillyPete · 12-03-2004, 09:47 AM

Why? Because it turns a life that is really meaningless in the grand scheme of things into something that you might endeavour to elevate.

If it's not a test then it's we're just very intelligent animals with a start and an end.

If we are to be tested, well then, we have a purpose to our lives and a duty to fulfil that purpose.

As for how many times it goes round, it depends on if you are bhuddist or christian.

ObieX · 12-03-2004, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d*d

test - don't be silly, it's a lesson

^-- i like this answer --^

ARTelevision · 12-03-2004, 10:19 AM

WillyPete, you are telling me about things people believe.

People believe all sorts of things.

I'm just wondering why they choose to do that.

WillyPete · 12-03-2004, 11:40 AM

Because they have a choice and exercise it.

Give us a reason why they shouldn't?

Faith is sometimes the only thing people have left to hold onto after reality and science haven't answered their questions and desires.

GakFace · 12-05-2004, 10:13 AM

Don't forget that faith answers things just like science does. Need to remember that faith is part of reality too, its just where your faith it. In a god its: do you put your faith in one or don't you?

Art, I'm not entirely sure that you question has a definate answer.. which is why its so fitting to be in the philosophy section. Why do we think? Why do we make choices? or... Why did you choose to post what you did? The answer to that may perhaps be the answer you're looking for.

Rekna · 12-05-2004, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillyPete

For me, weird is the reborn christians' emphasis on grace.
Ask them if they get to heaven becauseof their works. They'll spout hellfire and say it's ONLY through grace. Then ask if that means it's ok to live as bad as you want as long as you believe in Jesus' Grace. "Of course not", they reply. You have to live a good life too.
"Ah, so getting to heaven IS dependent on your works?"

Watch the wheels spin in the sand.

That one is beyond my logic. (or do I need a lack thereof to understand it?)

The answer to your delemia is simple. It is through grace and grace alone that we are saved. Good works do not get you to heaven. No one derserves or earns their way into heaven. No one is worthy of heaven. It is only through the grace of God that we get there.

Can you be a bad person and still go to heaven? No and here is why if you truely believe in Gods grace then good works will come of it. A person would not be able to do evil if he truely belived in the grace of God.

Rdr4evr · 12-05-2004, 10:39 PM

If life is indeed a test, then most of humanity has failed miserably. Look at how far our pathetic existence has come in the short time we have been on this planet. Sure our technology has come a long way, but our greed and hatred has turned technology into weapons to use against our own kind, rather than using it to heal and cure.

Our only reason on this god forsaken planet seems to be death and superiority, kill them so we can be on top mentality. Our technology will more than likely be the end of our sad existence as well.

I also believe there are a few out there who will pass the test, those few I believe are the ones who realize peace should be the only way to go and have not been brainwashed to believe otherwise. That said, I do hope it is a test, and I hope those that fail the test pay severely.

MacGuyver · 12-06-2004, 12:24 AM

Life is what you make of it. You can make it a test if you think that way. You might drive yourself crazy that way though. I like to think of life as what will keep me the most satisfied mentally.

ratiocination · 12-06-2004, 02:10 AM

Thinking of life as a test is interesting, but to me I seem to treat life as a game. It is a game that I dont like lightly though, it just seems like everything that happens to me is like a game. If I play the game well, I win and I enjoy the benefits, if i dont play well...well i lose then . I know it sounds like a really superficial extremelely shallow outlook on life, but for practical circumstances, treating life like a game seems to work extremely well for one. This of course does not have anything to do with faith or any of the "bigger things" in life.

WillyPete · 12-06-2004, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

The answer to your delemia is simple. It is through grace and grace alone that we are saved. Good works do not get you to heaven. No one derserves or earns their way into heaven. No one is worthy of heaven. It is only through the grace of God that we get there.

Can you be a bad person and still go to heaven? No and here is why if you truely believe in Gods grace then good works will come of it. A person would not be able to do evil if he truely belived in the grace of God.

Ah, like our friend in the faith, Jimmy Swaggart?

Hookers aside, he'll be going to heaven because he believes. Right?

martinguerre · 12-06-2004, 07:16 AM

wily pete-if you want a god that condemns people for sex outside of marriage, i'm sure one can be found.

did jimmy swaggart sin? surely...he's human. and i can think of more than a few instances in which he hurt people in the name of faith. but i don't gain anything by hopeing that it's enough to condemn him in God's judgement. enjoying his downfall for hypocracy, while i'm a sinner saved by grace...would be hypocritical.

i think the whole question is posed incorrectly here. faith in God is good...conceptually. But i don't think our initiation of faith is what saves us. I think that is an affront to God's soverienty. One solution is Calvinism. But that's an affront to God's mercy.

but what if we reframe the question. what if it is God's faith that saves? God's faith in us, expressed in Christ, comes to us before we had been reconciled and before we did anything to deserve it. it intitiates a relationship, where we would expect to see signs. couples kiss, friends talk to one another, and we experience grace and perform works. i think this basically bypasses the grace/works dichotomy, because i believe it is a false one.

people who talk about grace alone have often made grace in to a work. it's not...it's gift. and while that causes some to question who's in an who's out...i have to profess that i don't know. not that i don't care, but that i see no profit in the speculation. i choose not to worry and to trust in the grace. The rest is a cross post...

The mercy, the grace has been wilder, freer, and greater than i had ever imagined.

I don't know the fate of souls. But i do know about the mercy, and if it is that mercy that cares for us at our last breath, then we have a whole lot to hope for.

WillyPete · 12-06-2004, 09:49 AM

That's pretty much the point I'm trying ot make.

I've heard it sooo many times from the godsquads that wander around town 'saving' people.
It's never as simple as just believing. They always say it's simply grace.
As far as I see it, the proper way to describe it would be that they are saved by grace after doing all that they can do because no matter how good you are or try to be, you'll never be perfect enough to be worthy of a supreme being's presence.
I see works as very important, otherwise you'd never understand what it is to sacrifice or love. If life (from a christian view) is meant to be a test, then aren't you meant to do your 'homework' so that you can understand the subject matter before you stand in front of your maker?

flstf · 12-06-2004, 11:15 AM

If life is really a test I hope they grade on the curve.

martinguerre · 12-06-2004, 11:19 AM

i still don't agree.

i don't see this lift as a test. that word to me implies that not only is it not the main event, it is created for the purpose of evaluating the qualities of people. i don't think that's the point at all. creation is an act of love and self-giving, and has no ulterior motive. even when things go wrong, God seeks ways of bringing creation back to God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willypete

they are saved by grace after doing all that they can do

on this i disagree even more. works *are* important. but grace surely does not follow works. Works follow grace. It isn't homework. Relationship and Co-Creation *are* the outward signs of a life lived in the company of God. Relationship and love is our fufillment as human beings. Grace calls us to this task, forgives us when we fall short, turns us again so that we might try once more, and gives us the strength to do what we could not.

WillyPete · 12-07-2004, 05:06 AM

ok, I think we have our definitions of what the word 'grace' means, mixed up.

Me: Grace = mercy. The capacity of a god to forgive and make up for the shortcomings we have in trying to achieve the impossible, the command to be perfect.
Grace is the final variable in the equation that gets us in the door at the end.

Works follow faith. We you have faith that something is true, you act upon that faith to produce works. Faith without good works accompanying it is dead.
Faith in Gallileo's principles is what Columbus based his belief on that he could find a western route to India. His faith drove his works.
If you didn't have faith you wouldn't pray. I don't see that having 'grace' would make you want to pray, unless your definition of 'grace' is more related to the word 'faith' in its meaning

I can only find the following meanings:

Quote:

1. Seemingly effortless beauty or charm of movement, form, or proportion.
2. A characteristic or quality pleasing for its charm or refinement.
3. A sense of fitness or propriety.
4.
A: A disposition to be generous or helpful; goodwill.
B: Mercy; clemency.
5. A favor rendered by one who need not do so; indulgence.
6. A temporary immunity or exemption; a reprieve.
7. Graces Greek & Roman Mythology. Three sister goddesses, known in Greek mythology as Aglaia, Euphrosyne, and Thalia, who dispense charm and beauty.
8.
A: Divine love and protection bestowed freely on people.
B: The state of being protected or sanctified by the favor of God.
C: An excellence or power granted by God.
9. A short prayer of blessing or thanksgiving said before or after a meal.
10. Grace Used with His, Her, or Your as a title and form of address for a duke, duchess, or archbishop.
11. Music. An appoggiatura, trill, or other musical ornanment in the music of 16th and 17th century England.

11-29-2004, 12:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
paulskinback Insane	Is life a test? Could life be a test in the "bigger scheme of things"? We have the freedom to do whatever we want (as long as we can suffer the consequences), and are the most conscious creatures on the planet (debateable, i know). What happens if we "fail" the test? I don't believe necessarily in God (or the God that is taught to us) so answers on a postcard... any alternative religious thoughts welcome...! Glenn Hoddle once said (if you believe in reincarnation) that disabled people are those being punished from a former life... I don't believe in this but its along the same lines. __________________ 'Everything that can be invented has been invented.- - 1899, Charles Duell, U.S. Office of Patents. 'There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.' - Ken Olson, 1977, Digital Equipment Corporation

11-29-2004, 01:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Life may be a test, but since no one told us what was covered on the test, we just gotta muddle through the best we can. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

11-29-2004, 01:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I have often wondered if this existence that we know isn't a test for some greater existence. I know that I wouldn't want to give my kid the keys to the family car until he proved himself. Maybe God is doing the same thing. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

11-29-2004, 01:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	it's not a useful idea for me. it downplays the consequences of what we do. the worst that can happen in a test is that you fail. You, personally. The worst that can happen in life is to harm other life. Other, not you. frankly, i think the latter is more serious, and deserves our attention. there are certainly things about life that are testing, but i rest in God's grace. Pass/Fail and win/lose are inadequate to describe the just mercy of God. God both confronts our failing, and reconciles us to God's love. I don't think that when i see the word "test." __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

11-29-2004, 01:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
paulskinback Insane	Ok, didn't want to get into this but what about a suicide bomber? in their eyes they are passing the ultimate test - to be a martyr for their god and to be rewarded in the richest way (which somehow involves virgins and breaking them in - but thats another story) would this act, including taking the lives of others, be seen as the ultimate love for God? __________________ 'Everything that can be invented has been invented.- - 1899, Charles Duell, U.S. Office of Patents. 'There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.' - Ken Olson, 1977, Digital Equipment Corporation

11-29-2004, 02:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
lukethebandgeek Chicks dig the Saxaphone Location: Nowheresville OH	The test is one of personal virtue and comitment. One must transend one's being to pass the test. The reward is paradise. A failing grade means that you must take the test again. The Suicide bombers are those who don't read the directions fully on the test and didn't do thier homework. They think they've got the right answer, but they fail. Howabout that? __________________ Yes, band camp is all it's cracked up to be. So I like Chrono... So what?

11-29-2004, 02:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
paulskinback Insane	I agree that the "martyrs" have the wrong idea, possibly (highly possible) that they were brainwashed. Is searching the internet going to make me wiser in this matter, or should I be more religious in my quest for knowledge The computer says "no" __________________ 'Everything that can be invented has been invented.- - 1899, Charles Duell, U.S. Office of Patents. 'There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.' - Ken Olson, 1977, Digital Equipment Corporation

11-29-2004, 02:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	I don't know about life being a test for something else. Doesn't it make sense that living the right way can mean that you pass your own test for this life?

11-29-2004, 02:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	What if a belief in the "bigger scheme of things" meant you failed the test?

11-30-2004, 01:13 AM	#12 (permalink)
d*d Addict	test - don't be silly, it's a lesson

11-30-2004, 02:47 AM	#13 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	This is a fundamental portion of a lot of religions, the Mormons being one of them. Their belief is of all of us pre-existing as spirits, then getting a body and coming to earth to be tested according to our free will having been made to forget about the pre-life so that all choices are based on faith. What we achieve here will determine our fate. Not just Heaven and hell, but different levels of each according to what we have learnt and lived. It wuld be a cruel god that lumped the tax dodger or liar with the child molesters. They have a saying that "the natural man is an enemy to God", meaning that one must elevate one's self above the base desires that commonly drive us and seek to learn to control the physical form. Just some interesting stuff I learnt from my parents and some friends.

12-01-2004, 05:11 AM	#15 (permalink)
paulskinback Insane	no just the so-called martyrs, thats why it was in inverted commas, I think to die for what you truly believe in can be a good thing especially if it opens other peoples eyes to your cause. __________________ 'Everything that can be invented has been invented.- - 1899, Charles Duell, U.S. Office of Patents. 'There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.' - Ken Olson, 1977, Digital Equipment Corporation

12-01-2004, 07:16 AM	#16 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	I never think of this as a test. What kind of context would it have to exist in for that to be the case? I don't see life taking place within subsets of larger contexts. It is, put most simply, experience. __________________ create evolution

12-02-2004, 12:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	...yes, you would have to "believe" in that sort of thing. Why would anyone "believe" in that sort of thing? __________________ create evolution

12-02-2004, 01:50 PM	#19 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	In Douglass Adams "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" books the Earth turns out to have been a super-massive computer designed to run for the purpose of coming up with the question to the answer to life, the universe and everything. Human beings and other organisms form part of the incredibly advanced matrix that serves as the computer's processor. Then the Earth is destroyed by the Vogons to make way for an interstellar bypass minutes before it completes it's mission. Then things get even more complicated in successive books. But the core idea is pretty funny. And the answer is 42. __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

12-02-2004, 02:04 PM	#20 (permalink)
klo Tilted	Maybe, Maybe not. Because if your being tested, then where do you go afterwards? Sigh... My thinking is making me think weird.

12-03-2004, 03:32 AM	#21 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	The question is only important if you believed in immortality. So to someone that believes that there is somewhere after this, then it's not such a 'weird' concept. For me, weird is the reborn christians' emphasis on grace. Ask them if they get to heaven becauseof their works. They'll spout hellfire and say it's ONLY through grace. Then ask if that means it's ok to live as bad as you want as long as you believe in Jesus' Grace. "Of course not", they reply. You have to live a good life too. "Ah, so getting to heaven IS dependent on your works?" Watch the wheels spin in the sand. That one is beyond my logic. (or do I need a lack thereof to understand it?)

12-03-2004, 06:30 AM	#22 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	If you believe that life is a test for another, bigger life, then is that life a test too? And what about the one after that? And after that? When do the tests stop? Thinking like this just takes you in circles and is both a waste of time and can be dangerous for those who take it seriously.

12-03-2004, 06:36 AM	#23 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	I'm still wondering why anyone would want to "believe" in this sort of thing... __________________ create evolution

12-03-2004, 06:39 AM	#24 (permalink)
zen_tom Guest	What do you mean Art? Want to believe? Do they have a choice?

12-03-2004, 09:36 AM	#25 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	How could we not have a "choice" in what to "believe"? __________________ create evolution

12-03-2004, 09:47 AM	#26 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	Why? Because it turns a life that is really meaningless in the grand scheme of things into something that you might endeavour to elevate. If it's not a test then it's we're just very intelligent animals with a start and an end. If we are to be tested, well then, we have a purpose to our lives and a duty to fulfil that purpose. As for how many times it goes round, it depends on if you are bhuddist or christian.

12-03-2004, 10:19 AM	#28 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	WillyPete, you are telling me about things people believe. People believe all sorts of things. I'm just wondering why they choose to do that. __________________ create evolution

12-03-2004, 11:40 AM	#29 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	Because they have a choice and exercise it. Give us a reason why they shouldn't? Faith is sometimes the only thing people have left to hold onto after reality and science haven't answered their questions and desires.

12-05-2004, 10:13 AM	#30 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	Don't forget that faith answers things just like science does. Need to remember that faith is part of reality too, its just where your faith it. In a god its: do you put your faith in one or don't you? Art, I'm not entirely sure that you question has a definate answer.. which is why its so fitting to be in the philosophy section. Why do we think? Why do we make choices? or... Why did you choose to post what you did? The answer to that may perhaps be the answer you're looking for. __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

12-05-2004, 10:39 PM	#32 (permalink)
Rdr4evr Banned	If life is indeed a test, then most of humanity has failed miserably. Look at how far our pathetic existence has come in the short time we have been on this planet. Sure our technology has come a long way, but our greed and hatred has turned technology into weapons to use against our own kind, rather than using it to heal and cure. Our only reason on this god forsaken planet seems to be death and superiority, kill them so we can be on top mentality. Our technology will more than likely be the end of our sad existence as well. I also believe there are a few out there who will pass the test, those few I believe are the ones who realize peace should be the only way to go and have not been brainwashed to believe otherwise. That said, I do hope it is a test, and I hope those that fail the test pay severely.

12-06-2004, 12:24 AM	#33 (permalink)
MacGuyver You're going to have to trust me! Location: Massachusetts	Life is what you make of it. You can make it a test if you think that way. You might drive yourself crazy that way though. I like to think of life as what will keep me the most satisfied mentally. __________________ We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit. ---Aristotle Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me. ---John Fletcher

12-06-2004, 02:10 AM	#34 (permalink)
ratiocination Tilted	Thinking of life as a test is interesting, but to me I seem to treat life as a game. It is a game that I dont like lightly though, it just seems like everything that happens to me is like a game. If I play the game well, I win and I enjoy the benefits, if i dont play well...well i lose then . I know it sounds like a really superficial extremelely shallow outlook on life, but for practical circumstances, treating life like a game seems to work extremely well for one. This of course does not have anything to do with faith or any of the "bigger things" in life.

12-06-2004, 07:16 AM	#36 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	wily pete-if you want a god that condemns people for sex outside of marriage, i'm sure one can be found. did jimmy swaggart sin? surely...he's human. and i can think of more than a few instances in which he hurt people in the name of faith. but i don't gain anything by hopeing that it's enough to condemn him in God's judgement. enjoying his downfall for hypocracy, while i'm a sinner saved by grace...would be hypocritical. i think the whole question is posed incorrectly here. faith in God is good...conceptually. But i don't think our initiation of faith is what saves us. I think that is an affront to God's soverienty. One solution is Calvinism. But that's an affront to God's mercy. but what if we reframe the question. what if it is God's faith that saves? God's faith in us, expressed in Christ, comes to us before we had been reconciled and before we did anything to deserve it. it intitiates a relationship, where we would expect to see signs. couples kiss, friends talk to one another, and we experience grace and perform works. i think this basically bypasses the grace/works dichotomy, because i believe it is a false one. people who talk about grace alone have often made grace in to a work. it's not...it's gift. and while that causes some to question who's in an who's out...i have to profess that i don't know. not that i don't care, but that i see no profit in the speculation. i choose not to worry and to trust in the grace. The rest is a cross post... The mercy, the grace has been wilder, freer, and greater than i had ever imagined. I don't know the fate of souls. But i do know about the mercy, and if it is that mercy that cares for us at our last breath, then we have a whole lot to hope for. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

12-06-2004, 09:49 AM	#37 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	That's pretty much the point I'm trying ot make. I've heard it sooo many times from the godsquads that wander around town 'saving' people. It's never as simple as just believing. They always say it's simply grace. As far as I see it, the proper way to describe it would be that they are saved by grace after doing all that they can do because no matter how good you are or try to be, you'll never be perfect enough to be worthy of a supreme being's presence. I see works as very important, otherwise you'd never understand what it is to sacrifice or love. If life (from a christian view) is meant to be a test, then aren't you meant to do your 'homework' so that you can understand the subject matter before you stand in front of your maker?

12-06-2004, 11:15 AM	#38 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	If life is really a test I hope they grade on the curve.