Livia Regina

I'm hoping this hasn't been posted before - I looked and didn't find anything.


I grew up Christian and I went happily along until I started thinking about what the Bible said and what the Church taught and I realized that I didn't believe it and I didn't want to. So I'm wondering if there are any Christians out there who have seriously examined their religion (I don't want any "because the Bible says so") and decided to stay Christian and why you think it is the right path.

Incidently, if any pagans get this far, could you tell me why you are pagan?

maestroxl

Well, I don't know if I consider myself "pagan", though I suppose it may be a technically accurate label. I was raised in a born-again household, with church Sunday morning and Sunday and Wednesday evenings. My parents were divorced when I was very young, so I straddled the Christian and secular worlds between living with my born-again dad (and eventually he married my born-again step-mom) and my non-practicing Seventh-Day Adventist mom. With my dad, I played drums in the church worship services on Sunday mornings, prayed in tongues, was prophesied over, and was only allowed to listen to Christian music. With my mom, I listened to Barry Manilow, Neil Diamond and Billy Joel, and could listen to what I pleased and watch what I wanted on TV, too.

I guess I equivocated throughout my youth, alternately embracing Christianity because I was part of a community where that was the one true way, and embracing secular popular culture and mores when I was away from that community. I went away to high school, a boarding school in northern Michigan--away from my Texas dad and Virginia mom. There I met Christians, Muslims, Jews, Pakistanis, Chinese, Germans, Africans, hippies, gays, transvestites.... I started to determine that life was less about absolute truths than beliefs relative to your upbringing and experience.

A couple of years later, on a foreign exchange year in Germany (the area formerly East Germany), I felt my eyes open to another culture. One devoted to life and love and friendship, and mostly unconcerned with one's particular religion. I realized how similar we all are in heritage and in purpose, and I believe it is particularly inconsiderate and arrogant for any faith to promulgate--on fear of eternal damnation--its tenets on non-believers. Believers should band together and support each other in their pursuit of righteousness; no question about that, and of course they should be free to do so. But the respect and freedom accorded to religion must by necessity and fairness be mirrored onto unbelievers.

The more I see my Christian family value faith over reason, myth over science and bigotry over tolerance, the more confident I become about my own soul and the more despondent over theirs. Of course I respect their religious privelege, and I can't help but respect my dad's unshakeable faith; he is an intelligent and decent man and I love him dearly. And I have at times seen the world through his eyes; it is paradoxically comfortable there. I find it however more challenging living in what I believe to be the world of reality, where the answers to life's persistent questions are explained by experience and science rather than parable and myth. Where I know that the outcome of each decision I make is a consequence I must wholly accept rather than a cosmic lesson I'm yet to understand.

I honestly don't know if there's a god. But the longer I live the more I doubt it. And the more I learn, the more I see how alike we are, and how improbable that just one faction of us has found or been gifted the one true way. It just seems too easy, but more importantly my experiences tell me otherwise.

__________________
be the change you want

flstf

Great post, maestroxl. I find that I have a similar backround and am in the same boat. But I also find it hard to be purely athiest. I am trying to keep an open mind that there may be a creator out there but if there is what or who created the creator, etc.... What a paradox?

Lately I've come to believe that we are just too ignorant about the workings of our existence to justify latching on to any particular belief system. But I guess that's a belief of sorts in itself, LOL.

noodles

seconded. sums up a lot of things that i feel as well.

coash

i'm open minded. I just think it's funny how hardcore bible worshippers don't spend time and money researching it themselves.

Suave

Those hardcore bible worshippers are mirrored by hardcore science worshippers. There are a lot of people who take science in a religious context (which I think is a huge mistake) who know very little about it. Hell, it's nearly impossible to be well-versed in science anyways. I don't know of many physicist/biologist/chemists who understand the extensive fundamental aspects of all the fields anyways.

aKula

Well I've thought about it and come to the conclusion that I believe in God. The reason I am Christian is because I was brought up that way. To me Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the same God. I believe in Jesus Christ but the real foundation to my belief is God. I couldn't say that Muslim or Jewish beliefs are wrong because they don't believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God. The fact that I'm Christian come from my upbringing and background but my belief in God is seperate from that, that is decided independently.

freeload

I'm a Christian - but I haven't seriously examined my religion to figure out if I should stay a Christian or not.

(This might stray slightly from the topic)
My faith is based on several experiences where I've felt Gods presence, and seen what He can do. I'm not very good at reading the bible or studying christianity - for me, God is real - so why should I doubt it?

__________________
The future ain't what it used to be.

jon_264

I also class myself as a Christian but I suppose that is just down to my upbringing. I have never examined my religion or for that matter tried to explain it (I suppose it is just faith). I also feel that to be a Christian doesn't mean that you have to attend church every Sunday.

The Prophet

God fearing? Yes.

The follower of any organised religion? Absolutely not! The corrupt political history of religion, especially the Christian religion of the European middle-ages is enough to turn my stomach.

The things man does in the name of God? Fuck that!

__________________
"The death-knell of the republic had rung as soon as the active power became lodged in the hands of those who sought, not to do justice to all citizens, rich and poor alike, but to stand for one special class and for its interests as opposed to the interests of others. " - Theodore Roosevelt

martinguerre

grew up Christian, left for years. my reconversion was my brain finally getting the picture that i could have a thinking Christianity, and still be Christian. The fundies try to corner the market...and i could never see myself using their terms.

My surprise is that those terms aren't the property of the fundies. Sin is about broken relationship, the same old story of destruction....not the violation of a carefully watched code of laws. Grace is about God's real and wild love for all creation...not some divine lottery. Judgement is about God coming in to our lives and showing us what is broken everyday....not a moment in the future.

I'm lucky to have found worship communities that are theologically grounded, and do a lot of work to show where it is that we draw these ideas. Unlike some faiths i've experimented, it's not a "pick and choose" deal...or an idolitrous worhsip of the self's goals.

It's a fine line...we need ourselves to come to faith honestly, to question and wrestle with it. But we also can't ever tell ourselves we have all the answers...revelation comes from outside of us, and may tell us things that are uncomfortable and unwelcome.

I'm now preparing for ministry...which is a nervous and joyful thing. You could not have surprised me more if you'd told me that 4 years ago.

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

luvthefun

Well, I grew up in a Roman Catholic household. We went to Church everysunday, and had to sit through CCD. I also went to Catholic middle school and High school. Then I enlisted in the National Guard and started attending college. After seeing some things and seeing the world (most of our annual training, the two weeks a year, takes place in foriegn countries) I have come to believe in divine intervention. I have seen people who have been shot out of helocopters and had their vehicles be destroyed by RPG's and they walk away with minimal injuries. Then I've seen people mangled or killed by an accident in the moterpool doing routine maintenance. I have found that it doesn't matter what you are doing, when your time is up, thats it.

Now after seeing the world and what it has to offer and being extensivley versed in Christianity I chose to stick with it. What I have found most people to disagree with, myself included, are policy issues, not the message. Maybe the way things are done are messed up and maybe some of the things people in the Church say are wrong and some things people have done ARE wrong. But it comes down to treat people decently and expect the same in return. I know you don't have to believe in God or anyone/thing else for that but I found a religion I can live with and thats whats important.

__________________
"When your men get home and face an anti-war protestor, tell them to look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy."
~ General Tommy Franks

tecoyah

I am Pagan.
I was Raised Catholic,( 15 Years).
I also found the bible(s) to be myth, and was turned off by the "Word of God", reply from my teachers and clergy.
I decided to study Eastern spirituality, and became Buddhist for a time.
After a relatively long journey, I have found the personal spirituality refered to as Pagan, the most accepting of others, and the best direction for growth yet encountered.
Pagans don't generally care what you believe, and you will rarely see someone attempt to "Convert" the unwilling to the path. The Idea is.....when you are ready, you will be welcomed.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Bamrak

Because when I look outside or look into the stars, there's no way you can tell me we came from a dot of matter... and it exploded.. and we got sooo lucky that we were close to a ball of fire and it started raining on the dirt that made some soup... from that soup we evolved into what we are now?

I mean really.. evolution doesn't cut it for me.. you have WAY to many variables to make life from dirt and some rain..

(it's sloppy and full of bad punctuation, but class is over )

I guess following that thought process is why I believe... and if I'm wrong? I'm dead... if I'm right, I'll go to heaven. I really don't think there's a whole lot to even consider.. at least for me.

Livia Regina

This is one of the reasons I am not an atheist. But you can't go from this to Christianity. The word was created by something greater than it but how do we know anything about this creator other than revelation (which I'm not convinced is ever valid)? And of all the religions in the world, why Christianity? Why one God and not many Gods?

JustDisGuy

I've taken the time to study those aspects of the universe that I am able to comprehend, and have come to the conclusion that there is simply no realistic possibility that a system as complex and organized as ours could possibly be utterly random. Therefore, the universe and its contents are the product of Intelligent Design.

I've seen the power of prayer in action. I've felt the Holy Spirit wash over me. I've seen the Truth of our Creation, and thus I am Christian. For those of you who choose to be offended by that last statement, you should realize that my belief does not manifest itself in a sense of superiority or rightousness when confronted by someone of a different belief system.

Thoughtful debate is why I come here - thanks for a good topic Livia Regina.

__________________
"Act as if the future of the universe depends on what you do, while laughing at yourself for thinking that your actions make any difference."

MSD

I'm a devout agnostic because the more I try to find evidence for either the existance or non-exaistance of God, the more certain I become that there is no answer that we can ever find. I reject organized religion because I see it as little more than a way for certain people to hold power over others.

1010011010

I've no recollection of ever having a belief in santa, the tooth fairy, god, easter bunny, etc. I suppose I was aware that other people believed in it, but for a while there I guess I thought that the adults just pretended to believe for the sake of their children.

I suppose as charitable as I can be to true believers is that they are still, in some way, children... and need the belief in an authority superior to them to function in the world or have yet to cast aside a few final childish beliefs.

I have a someone less friendly view of people that merely use religion to justify apathy, hate, or to spread an otherwise broken way of life. But if they're happy living that way and not making anyone else unhappy, more power to 'em.

__________________
Simple Machines in Higher Dimensions

asaris

I'm a Christian because I believe in evil. I've tried to put this into words on this forum before, but wasn't successful, so let me try again. We all do bad things; you don't need a concept of sin or anything to admit this. But good and evil aren't like some sort of cosmic balance sheet; you're not a good person just because you've done more good than evil; evil is not so easily expunged from your record. So there needs to be some sort of expiation for our crimes, and that's just what Christianity teaches. In other words, I'm a Christian because Christianity teaches GRACE, and I know I need that.

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Daoust

So you're saying you're a Christian? I hope so, else where would you get an idea like heaven?

I agreee whole heartedly with JusDisGuy's post. I think he and I have a lot in common.

__________________
I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

cheebsteralpha

I am a Christian with no denomination, I feel organized religion is not right for me (i used to be a Lutheran but the presecence of an organized synod and politics drove me away) I dont believe its wrong to attend church, it just want for me. Unlike some, I dont like having a candy coated religion, I strongly believe that there is a heaven that people go to when they die, but I also believe in a state of eternal damnation referred to as "hell". To me, the Devil is just as real as God and Jesus, and that the Devil should not be taken lightly. One thing that I did take away from being a Lutheran was the idea that we are saved by God's grace alone. My faith is private, even when I did go to church, I never sang or prayed loudly.


(oh yeah, since somebody else brought it up, I never believed in Santa Clause, but prior to 5yrs old, I was convinced there was an Easter Bunny)

Livia Regina

I've met a few Christians without a denomination who did not attend church and I don't quite understand it. Doesn't the Bible imply that there should be a church - Peter being the rock on which Christ builds his church? Or am I defining 'church' differently? I think of a church as being a group of people worshipping together and reading and understanding the Scriptures together - not necessarily organized.

Daoust

Church comes from Greek ekklesia or something similar meaning a gathering together.
There are two dominant definitions of the word 'church' in Christendom. The first being the building or place of worship, ie., "Grace Bible Church". The second, literal definition is the collective group of Christians. There is the local church, ie, those who gather together on a Sunday in a church building, and there is the universal church, ie, all those who are followers of Christ gathered throughout the world, yet unified in their aim of glorifying God through His Son Christ Jesus, and winning other souls to Christ.

__________________
I have faith in a few things - divinity and grace
But even when I'm on my knees I know the devil preys

Livia Regina

Thanks Daoust. That explains non-denom neatly.

Grasshopper Green

Love the thread.

I consider myself agnostic. My mother is a very devout Christian and my dad is....I really don't know. I think he may believe in God but he doesn't go to church or profess his beliefs openly.

I am very torn in this area. I am (or was) a student of anthropology, which teaches human evolution, with what I consider concrete evidence of the process in which homo sapiens were born. On the other hand, I have recently begun to think that there is some otherworldly influence keeping my family together. My sister was in a terrible car accident several years ago, one in which she probably should not have survived. Her back was crushed in two places, and the fellow who found her carried her out of the car by himself, yet she is alive and has no spinal cord damage at all. My parents were going through the beginning process of a divorce that had my mother all messed up on the head. I honestly think if my sister hadn't survived, she would have committed suicide. A few months ago, my brother committed suicide. He was schizophrenic. My mom has taken it ok though, because she revitalized her faith in God about a year before he died. It just seems so odd to me that had my sister died, I probably wouldn't really have a family to speak of. Coincidence? Perhaps. I really don't know. I guess I am open to the idea of a greater power, just not necessarily God, or the Christian idea of God.

One thing I DO know is that I have a hard time with a lot of organized religion, especially Christianity. So many horrible things have been done "in the name of God" or other gods for that matter, I just can't comprehend it. I am not trying to offend Christians or their faith, this is just a very personal issue with me. I grew up in a very religious area and my life was a living hell because I didn't fit in with the dominant religion, which was a Christian one.

Sorry to get off post, but I guess I had a lot to say. I guess it just boils down to a belief system. There are good people to be found in any religion or belief system, whether it be Christian, Pagan, Jewish, Buddhist, or whatever. And if that belief system comforts them and helps them to be a better person, then it's great in my book. Christianity just doesn't happen to be the one that I believe in.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

Devoid

I'm not sure what I would consider myself. I personally don't care if God exists or not. I believe that I can be a great person on my own, without any kind of external spiritual guidance. I've read a whole smattering of religious texts and gathered what I think are good ideas from all of them, but don't buy into any religion. I'd much rather be free to make my own decisions about the world without being categorized or boxed into any certain way of thinking. Personally, all I care about is leading a fulfilling, complete life, and if I can do that and see my daughter grow up well, that's enough for me. To me, an afterlife is only necessary if you feel the need to continue your existence for whatever reason after you die, and I don't have that desire.

__________________
We're here to steal your pornography, and sodomize our vast imaginations. - Inignot

Livia Regina

Those ideas are not mutually exclusive. Even if you were a devout Christian you could still believe that God created man using evolution. It has always seemed silly to me that people get into huge fights about this.

I agree with you entirely. That's one of the things that bothered me about Christianity - that someone could be a perfectly good and moral person but be damned to hell because they did not believe that Jesus was the son of God. Or, even worse, they didn't believe in Jesus the correct way (being Catholic instead of Protestant or vice versa).

Grasshopper Green

I'm not a student of Christianity by any means, but Catholicism is the only church I know of that says evolution exists, although not in men? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is one of the problems I have too. Is the Dalai Lama not going to heaven because he's not a Christian? What about Ghandi? Anne Frank? Chief Joseph? This is one of the main reasons I've been turned off of organized Christianity. I can't understand how good people who have done good things couldn't go to "heaven".

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

Zephyr66

i can tell you why I'm not cristian, in one word too, hypocrisy, thats what the whole church runs on. I am an athiest (a bit of a nihilist as well) but i wouldnt be suprised if jesus was an actual person, and that he taught what he did, and if so i applaud that and i believe he would have been a great person, but the son of god, i think not. I think it's absurd that the most widely accepted belief in the world is that some dude that doesnt exist, yet exists and is everywhere at the same time and is always judging you. i just dont get why everyone can think that, and even if you believe in god, i dont see why anyone follows the church. my view is that everyone is brainwashed one way or another, the only reason you can believe something so absurd and not be insane is because you were told when you were too little to understand and just believed what you were told.

joeshoe

For me its a feeling, a papable background feeling, that I'm not simply a collection of molecules bumping randomly in such a way as to exhibit characteristics of life, that there is something more than we've been able to study, that God is there. That, and many personal experiences lead me to believe in God.

MacGuyver

It's not a bad thing to think for yourself. You probably have alot of legitimate questions, which the Bible does not fully explain. I was in the same situation as a kid, but I started thinking for myself quite a few years ago. Why? How? and other questions like those, can change your whole perspective on something.

__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
---Aristotle

Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me.
---John Fletcher

Livia Regina

I know, but I was raised in a household where Christianity was the Truth and only the degenerate questioned it. It wasn't till I got to college (far away from my parents) that I started questioning what they taught me. I find I enjoy thinking for myself.

__________________
Rule 37: There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload.'

klo

Thinking for yourself is not fun. Well to me it isn't. So much freedom don't know what to do, I always end up doing something stupid.

MacGuyver

Thinking for yourself may not be fun sometimes, I agree with you klo. It sucks when we can ACTUALLY see alot of the hardships that are in front of us. The decisions get harder and you usually find yourself in a generally shitty situation. But you know what? I wouldn't trade it for the world. Because I can see the superficiality around me in others, and I can see the lack of understanding.

It's really up to the person wether they want to walk around with a blindfold over thier eyes or not. And, Yes, I am going to compare this to The Matrix. What would you rather do... walk unknowingly inside a miserable system of control, or would you rather live free, and by your own parameters? No one said it would be easy, but I take mental freedom.

__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.
---Aristotle

Deeds, not words, shall speak [for] me.
---John Fletcher

Memalvada

Hmm.. I have a hard time tryinng to explain what I feel and think so please bear with me....

I was born into a roman catholic family. And being form a country in Latin America where roman catholicism has really deep roots and influence, then I really had no choice than to become a raoman catholic like the rest of the people around me. My parents raised me as a catholic, although i dont consider that I got a good catholic upbringing, mainly cuz my dad doesnt practice the religion, and he doesnt like it, but he does believe in God.

Well anyways, when I was a kid, I never questioned God or religion, and just swallowed everything that was spoon-fed to me. About a year ago, on request of my mom I joined this church group, which is targeted to teenagers. But I was only on it for like 3 months before I moved to go and study abroad. Well anyways, on hindsight, this group brainwashes kids. I can see it with my ex-gf who also joined the group... I mean, they have brainwashed her so much, I mean, she's a completely different person right now. She says she's happy, which is a good thing, but she's so close minded now, so conservative, so fanatical... I dont like that attitude, but at least she's happy.


Now that Im coming out of my teens, and I have been fairly isolated form religious influence, Ive begun seriously questioning everything I've been told. I mean, there are so many things I dont understand, things that over the years poeple have told me for facts, but now that I look back and reason, i dont find a satisfactory answer... For example, if God created everything, why the hell did he create evil? And whats up with the holy trinity, I mean, supposedly there's just one god, but the holy trinity is like 3-in-1 adn they act independently or something... I just dont get it.. I am unwilling to believe everything I've been spoon-fed, which Ive begun to consider as outdated beliefs and rule systems. And I am unwilling to be tied down by these rules that i dont believe in.

My religion (?) desnt make me any better than any other person, nor does it make me any worse, nor Im a worse person if i stop believeing in something.

Oh, and for the record, for now I do believe there is some sort of superior being which created humans, though I doubt that this being is everywhere and watches over us 24/7.

... Just my own personal experience and views...

edit:
Ok I was just talking to my ex, and I tried to get her and explain these things I dont understand. Again she coulnt provide with a satisfactory answer and told me it was a matter of faith. I dont see the point in believing blindly in something (this is the way I see faith as), specially if those beliefs are based on something which some people wrote about thousands of years ago, people which had (and I hope I am not offending anyone) limited knowledge of the world around them and therefore attributed everything to the will of a superior being.

__________________
"The weak are food for the strong, so die and let me feast!" - Makoto Shishio (RK)

Livia Regina

I'm much happer now that I've given myself the freedom to think. I never liked people telling me what I should think because I knew I was always doing it wrong and I thought I'd be damned for it.

__________________
Rule 37: There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload.'

ravenradiodj

As Aleister Crowley once wrote, "The only thing we can say for sure is that there appears to be such a thing as consciousness."
Ultimately, you have to go with what your heart, head and gut indicate to you is the right spiritual path for you. I believe that if you're spiritually awake, then you're not worried about anyone else's beliefs, because it doesn't matter HOW you get there, as long as we're all headed in the same direction.
Whatever God(s) and/or Goddess(es) you choose to worship, whatever name and face you give to the divine consciousness, whatever belief system and rituals you choose, I believe you have to find your own way. By all means, seek guides and teachers if you wish, but you don't have to have them. If you're honest and devoted and willing to do the work of learning about yourself and all that you perceive around you with openness and without judgment, you will succeed in advancing yourself spiritually, whether you're a Christian in church on Sunday, an Indian seeking a vision on a mountaintop, a Muslim making the Haj, a Wiccan casting a circle and invoking the Great Mother, etc. Whatever tools you choose to use will do, provided you do the work. You WILL get there, or at least closer to there. Because we're all ultimately walking in the same direction.
So choose your path. If you find Christianity to be too dogmatic, or Islam too punitive, or Druidism too flaky, or Judaism too restrictive, or WHATEVER....if it doesn't ring true to you, then find another way, a way that does ring true to you. Use your magnificent brain. Trust your intuition and instincts. Read about every religion you can find, expand your horizons. Most people will tell you, if it feels right, it probably is right, and if it doesn't work out, then pick another path. Choose deities and rituals and customs that you find positive towards your own peace of mind and spiritual development. It doesn't matter if you call the divine by God, Goddess, Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Wakan Tanka, Great Spirit, Earth Mother, Cernunnos, Inanna, etc., etc. The point is, you're seeking to awaken the divine within YOU - your own unique higher self that is part of the one great universal divine consciousness that is made up of everything in the universe - you, me, your great grandparents, a rosebush, a gazelle, the clouds, and Neptune, etc.
I chose Paganism as my path for its lack of dogma and hypocrisy, its colorfulness, its history, the simple yet universally applicable Threefold Law, which tells me that everything I do will have consequences for me. In other words, you reap what you sow, what goes around comes around, etc. It's a universal principle that everyone accepts as being true. If you truly believe that, you'll make every effort never to cause harm to another unjustly, and to promote positivity. I chose Paganism for its openness, its connectedness to Mother Earth, its fascinating mythologies, its sense of personal responsibility. I don't believe that anyone can die on a cross for me, or pay for my sins. I have to do all that, I have to answer for these things, to myself and to all of you. I don't believe that anyone deserves eternal reward or punishment, I can't see how 100 or less years or goodness or badness can be fairly rewarded or punished by an eternity of bliss or torment. The universe I see seems to operate on balanced principles - for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. If I live a selfish, harmful life, then i'll have to pay for it, either in this life or the next. Not all Pagans believe in reincarnation, but I do. Nature renews everything else, why not us? Matter doesn't die, it merely changes form. Energy travels and fluxes, but never ceases to exists. Any Science 101 student knows these things. Why would these rules that apply to all other things not apply to me?
I pray to deities because they serve as symbols, like an alphabet, for accessing and reaching the divine energy essence. It's easier for me to pray to a name and a face and a personality than to try and pray to a nameless invisible energy field. It's easier to talk to Jesus than "Divine Consciousness", because you probably have a mental image of Jesus, a concept of his personality, etc. He seems more REAL to you because of his similiarity to we humans. Similarly, I can more easily tap into the divine by praying to Cernunnos, or Bastet, or Hecate, because with my mind's eye I can visualize them. They seem more REAL to me.
I know this was a long, convoluted post, siblings, and I apologize, but I wanted to try and cover all my personal bases. If you read this far, thanks for listening, hope this helps address the question. Peace to you all, blessed be.....
______________________________________________________________________

Gimme That Old Time Religion - PAGAN FOR LIFE!

hoosier52

Some Christians would indeed condemn these people on the basis that they havne't accepted Jesus Christ and been born again; however, I think that God in his infinite wisdom will judge these with loving wisdom that we cannot comprehend. Many people haven't heard the gospel preached can't make a decision to accept or reject Christ, so will they go to heaven or hell when they die. The correct answer I believe: "Only God knows"

I think JustDisGuy expresses my sentiments exactly. Christians talk about "witness of the spirit" that confirms to each individual they are "saved" It is this feeling of coming into God's presence, though not a constant feeling, that convinces me of His reality. I too have seen the power of prayer in action and think that this power is greatly neglected among Christians.
Lastly, the Bible says in at least one place (and I wish I could remember the verse but don't offhand) that the non-christian can't understand or comprehend God's word and it is foolishness to them.

Zephyr66

well, thats what the bible teaches, so either its true, or someone is trying to scare people into believing this stuff, but that never happens in the catholic church because that would be a sin and the church is perfect

Fohur2

That's the thing,there is too much "God knows,we'll find out".I wanna know answers,and a story about a flood and animals with enough genetic diversity to create a whole species (noah's flood),doesn't give any answers.