wnker85

Now I am new to this forum and would like to get into it. but first I need help with a question thats been bugging me, and hope someone could clear my eyes.

Now, I don't discriminate at all, but in my veiwpoint I can not make a difference in accepting others for their differences and then push those aside cause they do disriminate.

In my eyes i have to accept both. Because to tell someone to accept others for the Differences, wouldn't you have to also accept them even if they do discriminate, because we accept everyone.

I just ask, becuase in talks about discrimination, I feel outdated because I have family who are racsict (SP?) and homophobic

tecoyah

There is a HUGE difference between being discriminate, and bigotry. I can be quite discriminate in the people I choose to associate with, and pay no attention to gender or race. To state you do not discriminate is likely a falsehood, as we all do. I am sure you would not purposefully go to a prison to befriend a murderer, and thus you have discriminated against this type of person. Or at least I would hope so.

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tarvuz

I dunno, I accept people as human beings. But in our society we are forced to not mention stereotypical behaviour that is painfully obvious. That ends up making it impossible to have a real understanding.

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funny quip

CoachAlan

In freshman sociology we learned that there were two types of descriptions of people.

1) Ascribed status. A status with which a person is labeled and which the bearer has no power to change. An example of this would be "caucasian" or "blind".

2) Achieved status. A status achieved through effort/behavior. An example of that would be "college graduate" or "bigot."

In general, I think it's wrong to discriminate against people for their ascribed status. A person can't help what race they are, or that they are a dwarf, or whatever. It's not cool to hold that against them.

On the other hand, I think that under many circumstances it IS ok to discriminate against someone for their achieved status. Being a bigot would be such a status. A person makes the choice whether or not they will be a bigot. As another human being with a conscience of your own, you have the right to place a value on that choice. Just as you would likewise be justified in revering someone who has reached the achieved status of "hero" by saving a bunch of puppies from a burning building.

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Master_Shake

I think the politically safest route to take is to discriminate against emergent behaviours, not people. For example, don't hate person A because he's an asshole; hate him because he's acting like an asshole.

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You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

CoachAlan

Still more politically correct would be to not "hate him" at all. You know, "love the sinner, hate the sin."

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"If I cannot smoke cigars in heaven, I shall not go!"
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TawG

hmmm


Hehe, ive had this discussion with many people at parties. I say i discriminate against addicts of any substance, and people who have not achieved anything except what is required of them. More correctly, i say im better than them. This usually makes some people react, and while some more polite or reflected people politely change subject others get pissed and starts arguing. Now, the most common outcome of the argument is that said person claim they dont discriminate or think they are better than anyone, but these people now think they are better than me because they think they arent better than anyone. Hypocritical people like that i both love and dislike, i love to point out their hypocricy, and i dislike the way they take it.

btw, isnt being stupid an ascribed status? so if i just couldnt stand someone because of their stupidity, i would actually discriminate them on an ascribed quality. Its like hating poor people because they are thieves or something(stereotype i know), right?

FoolThemAll

I have some family and friends that I view as being bigoted to some degree (and for me, merely believing that homosexual activity is wrong doesn't make one the least bit bigoted), but I don't discriminate against them. Not because discrimination is always wrong; I think tecoyah hit the nail on the head there. But because they have enough redeeming qualities to make up for their shortcomings. In most cases, much more than enough.

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seep

I don't really know what "accepting" people means in this context. I know a lot of people that hold beliefs that I think are crazy but I don't pick fights with them. I can be civil to anyone.

As for this "ascribed"/"achieved" status stuff... if someone possesses a trait I don't feel like dealing with, I don't care if they inherited it or not, I'm still probably going to avoid them.

wnker85

You hit the nail. If you can live your life with those who you think are crazy, but are able to be civil. Because there is no way to make everyone love everyone else, we just have to achieve civility

Suave

I won't go and say "kill all the racists" or anything like that, but if I know someone who is overtly and overpoweringly racist, I'll choose not to associate with them, simply because it's an aspect of someone's personality that I don't like. Everyone has things about them that I'm not necessarily going to appreciate though, so I've learned that being intolerant of people based solely on principle can have very lonely consequences, and it's normally not worth it. People have their faults, no matter the dimension they take on.

Ruse

I agree with shake on this one.. dont hate em because they are an asshole - hate them because they are being an asshole.

We'll eventually all be the same color anyway... dead - whats the point in wasting time while youre alive?

seep

Dead people are different colors.

neutone

Classic response Seep!

I have racist parents. One evening i had a roaring arguement with them about this issue. The foundation for my position was tolerance, understanding and acceptance. The great revelation for me came the next day, I was attacking my parents for their lack of understanding, tolerance etc. i realised that I had not considered, or attempted to understand their reasons for being what they are, and that I was being hypocritical in my actions towards them.

Who judges the judges?

d*d

well put, ignorance is the root cause of bigotry. People aren't born bigot, non bigot it's a question of education, and anybody who says they do not discriminate are lying if you don't discrinate you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between anybody. I can discriminate between a black guy and a white guy - the black guy has darker skin.

seep

Actually, I think people ten discriminate against people who are different from themselves almost as soon as they notice the differences.

Ustwo

A better question is why does it bother you so much?

I have family members who I don't agree with on some issues. One in law is practically a Nazi, and is proud he had a grandfather in the Waffen S.S. In family matters these are basically 'non issues'. Despite being one of those who says 'they never talk about the good Hitler did' types, he is a good guy over all, just messed up historically/politically. So you can either worry that your family members are not perfect or accept them as the flawed individuals they are. I'm sure they could point out a few issues they have with you as well.

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borg7171

I worked on a Native American reservation for several years. I was one of about 10 "crackers" within 60 miles of any direction. Really. I learned down there that people discriminate, always. Not right or wrong, just is. Here is what I mean. One of the guys I liked a lot was a Hopi, but the reservation was T.O. And the NEVER let him forget that he was Hopi. I was amazed! I would have thought that just being an Indian would have produced solidarity. Nope, it was not the case. I was one of the white guys, he was a Hopi, and they were the rest. No big deal, because there was no noticible racial tension around it, so it was all good. Just interesting.

Now about tollerance. All you tollerant people can shove that directly up your bums! Tollerance is about the worst thing that has ever happened to this country. Where does it end??? Should I be tollerant of the drug addict that steals my TV to pay for a fix? After all, it's my fault that I did not tollerate his drug use to begin with and make it illegal. Should I be tollerant of sombody that raped a girl? Hell, he was just horny, we've all been there. I know, I know, you are saying that I am just being extreme, that my examples are clearly wrong. My point is, that little by little, all the accepted social norms are being eroded away in the name of tollerance. This is NOT a good thing. It IS a good thing that there are social rules. Without social rules, society begins to break down. Also, with the lack of social rules, it become necessary to institute legal rules. And I for one, do not want every aspect of my life legislated, and as everyone can see, that is exactly where we are going as a country.