There is something wrong with our society - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Dawson70 · 07-22-2004, 04:08 PM

Let me start by saying that I am not the type of person that will dwell on issues, until they make me crazy. There are so many problems with our society as a "whole", that you can't help but stop and gaze in disbelief.

I am in the generation as most will refer to as "X". This is the unfortunate placement between the "babyboomers" and the "techno" profiles. As I look around, I see so much hostility and anger in so many people. I am not talking about issues such as the "middle east", that is a whole different subject. I am talking about just every day ordinary people that we are forced to deal with on a daily basis.

First and foremost, the corporations ARE taking over the world. Companies such as Wal-Mart and Microsoft, control more of our intrests than you might think. I feel bad that my kids will never be able to appreciate the finer qualities of a "mom and pop" corner store. They will never smell the inside of a butcher's shop or a real candy store with the old wooden floors and soda fountains. The minute Evil-Mart comes into town, they force all the other shops to close. It makes me wonder how stupid our society has become, to run to the new center and pay two dollars less for something that they will have to return in a few days anyways, due to the fact, that it is junk. I hear people complain about the poor quality of Evil-Mart and the less than standard customer service, but yet, the next day, they return for more crap. It doesn't make sense??? I try to understand the theroy of economics and the supply and demand equations, but still it doesn't ring clear.

The "babyboomers" are in control at this moment. They have been allowing these companies to dismantle our industry and have created foreign policies, such as NAFTA, to only benfit themselves. There is no "insight" on repercussions, because frankly, they don't give a shit. They will dump the shit barrel over to the rest of us, and I doubt we will be able to repair much of the damage. Not to mention, they are greety and control freaks. If they don't have something go just there way, they blow a fuse. I have seen more temper tantrums from 50 year olds than I have 3 year olds. It strikes me as "spoiled" and that is how they deal with issues. To proove my point, If any of you ever get the chance to watch our Senate of Congess in action, you will see what I mean. Also, try this out...... challange one of these people on one of their issues, such as "politics" If you ask the right question, you will watch the tantrum begin. They hate the thought of someone questioning thier reasoning. It a joke.

Lastly, where did the compassion go? What ever happened to "wave to your neighbor" or "help to fix a flat tire on the expressway". We have backed ourselves into a corner on this one. The media has us so terrified of each other, that we believe at any minute, we will be shot, raped, beat or killed. We sit in front of that idiot box and allow the marketing and news folks, tell us how to live and what to buy. Our sense of "free thinking" has disappeared.

I look in my childrens eyes, their glowing faces and sparkeling eyes, with shame. I feel bad for what they will endure when my generation is too old to help. Of course they will blame us for the turmoil, but that will just be the cause and effect working it's way through the universe.

There are so many other issues, but not enough space to cover them all. Healthcare Costs (what a joke), Insurance Companies (same thing), Theft from us by the Oil Mongers (yup I said it) and poor politics (nothing new). It makes me sick to think that we sit here and do nothing. The biggest scam yet? The American Physicians Association in conjunction with the Pharmicudicals.
Don't eat eggs....oh wait....go ahead and eat eggs. Here....load up on these drugs to fight colesterol and heart disease. Make sure you take them everday, until your either dead or broke.
The one that through me into a rage was when I took my son to the doctor for a sore throat. This unpretensious Ped Doctor had the gall to ask me......if I had any firearms in the house.........WHAT? What does that have to do with his throat??? Wow........I can only watch with awe!

This is just one man's opinion......

DEI37 · 07-22-2004, 04:50 PM

I agree pretty much. I think this country will meet it's doom in our lifetime. I hate to say it, but looking at the situations we've put ourselves in, can you disagree? Oh, and don't even get me started on insurance companies. I hate those people.

Our country has sold out to the rich whom are making themselves richer, only to make the poor poorer. I don't make but $20k a year. Know what my chances are of improving that substantially without moving to a big city, and drastically increasing the cost of living? Yeah, you guessed it...next to none.

ARTelevision · 07-22-2004, 05:26 PM

As you may already know, I think human beings have no future because we have arrived at the point where we cannot tell the difference between what is media and what is real.

mcovey · 07-22-2004, 05:48 PM

100% agree.
Maybe 99.

People aren't scared of each other, people are just raised to believe that they are "unique individuals" etc. In such a fashion that they believe they are better than anyone else. We're all guilty of this, not wanting to help someone

Thinking... "he wouldnt help me", or something.
Whenever I see one of my neighbors, I wave. It's courteous and shows mutual respect, not a mutual feeling of superiority.

Master_Shake · 07-22-2004, 07:33 PM

Well, I mean, what do you expect? Of course those in power are going to "stack the deck" to make it easier for them and theirs. That's the way things have always been and I don't see any likelihood that will change in the near future.

If you are so upset that you want to take action against these injustices, I see two options.

First, as I believe Mrax and Engles suggested, you must gain control over the means of production. Then you can dictate your will to others. I'm sure that once you and your ilk replace the current corrupt bastards in power you will make the world a fair and reasonable place, never placing the interests of your children or your friends above the interests of others. It will truly be a marvelous place.

Second, do as I intend to do, gather what limited resources you can by playing within the Man's system, then flee to Chile*.

*By Chile, I don't necessarily mean Chile, but rather just a place where you can excape the Man. I hear Antarctica is also very nice, and if you can afford it the Moon is the way to go.

Dawson70 · 07-22-2004, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ARTelevision
As you may already know, I think human beings have no future because we have arrived at the point where we cannot tell the difference between what is media and what is real.

I have to say to this quote. I 100% agree with it. Not because I "believe it to be true" but I "know its true".

While I was growing up, I was raised in a family of Funeral Directors. Of course, before I branched off and went to Engineering School, I worked and observed alot of sadness and grief in the family business.
Part of my training was to "sell" families products, as all Funeral Directors do. But even in the Funeral Biz, there are marketing Tatics. The one that stands out in my mind, is the "Minds Eye" theory. Basicaly it is taught, the Minds Eye can not tell the difference between what is imaginary vs what is reality. I am sure you have all at one time, thought of something that excited you, or made you sad. Your body begins to react accordingly to that emotion. Even thou, it did not "physically" endure it, your body cannot tell the difference. Your hands sweat, your stomach gets "butterflies" etc etc.

The media has begun to use this against us. They control the minds eye, and we, as humans......cannot tell the difference.

We are in trouble......hopefully we are not done evolving and can cure this natural fault.

One last thing. I know there is no solution to this problem. It is not an calculas equation that can be worked out by one or twenty people. I only wanted to share my belief of humanity and how it is faltering. We quest the knowledge for so many things. Is there a God, Is there Karma, What religion is the best....etc. Maybe we should trun our questions and solutions to something tangable. Maybe we could fix it.??? But I am sure the odds are the same as God Himself seperating the skies to offer His opinion. Hey.....It could happen!

Master_Shake · 07-22-2004, 07:42 PM

And dude, I shop at Wal-Mart. I'm not proud of it, but I do it because I am poor.* Wal-Mart sells things more cheaply than the Mom and Pop stores; so for me it's not a question. When I go shopping for laundry detergent and a hammer, I'm not looking for customer service. I just want the stuff with as little hassle as possible.

I agree that some of the long-term material goods sold by Wal-Mart (like clothing) is not designed to last. I generally avoid such purchases and buy over the internet now because that's where I find the best deals.

Sure, maybe someday Wal-Mart will control most markets and they will raise their prices. Well, I'm not totally stupid (just mostly) so if the new S-Mart begins selling the same stuff cheaper I will shop there. Consumer allegiance to Mom and Pop stores isn't any more noble than allegiance to any other company. None of them are on your side, they all want your money.

*Poor for an American, which pretty much means I am not poor when compared to most poor people in the rest of the world.

Master_Shake · 07-22-2004, 07:55 PM

And WTF do you mean by where did the compassion go? What ever happened to "wave to your neighbor" of "help to fix a flat tire on the expressway."

It sounds like you are pining for some kind of suburban happy land. I'm sure those places do exist around the country; small towns scattered here and there. But not all of us like that kind of contact. Such familiarity also erodes at your privacy to have people watching for you to leave your house, and checking up on what you are doing. I value what little privacy I have and I like to know that when I'm masturbating in used napkins to Asian porn at 3AM I don't have some nosey neighbor looking through my windows worried that my house is being burgaled because some lights are on.

I vaguely remember a George Carlin skit from the early '90s decrying the overuse of victimhood, especially the idea of innocent victims. There are no innocent victims; your birth certificate is proof of your guilt.

Damn, your post really got me excited.

Master_Shake · 07-22-2004, 08:02 PM

And to paraphrase another George Carlin skit:
You say "...to prove my point, If any of you ever get the chance to watch our Senate of Congess in action, you will see what I mean..." and that the BabyBoomers are currently in charge and are spoiled and rotten.

Well where do these politicians and BabyBoomers and others come from? They come from American schools, American churches, American neighborhoods. They aren't pod people; they are home-grown bastards. They are just like the rest of us. So instead of "the physicians suck," how about the people suck. The People Suck. Put that on a bumper sticker.

Dawson70 · 07-22-2004, 08:08 PM

Thats the attitude I am questioning. Don't get me wrong, I greatly value your opinion. But to me, it seems you have conceeded to your ways and the things around you. You have your ideas of what is good, and I have mine. It does not mean either of us is correct. You would rather pass 2 hardware stores and drive 10 miles to Wal Mart to buy a hammer. This is the question......why? To save a buck? I said in my first thread, that I understand the economic factor and the corporate offerings and I know that their are many people on tight budgets. I understand all of that. My whole issue, is the control (or there lack of) by us, the consumer, the human, the patient etc.

I apoligize in advance if I have offended you in any way. That is not my intention.

But I am glad you are worked up over this. Keeps us sharp and thinking.

PS. I am a big fan of Goergy Boy, however, he is one of the biggest hippicrits on TV. Also, he's a baby boomer

Master_Shake · 07-22-2004, 08:24 PM

Quote:

As you may already know, I think human beings have no future because we have arrived at the point where we cannot tell the difference between what is media and what is real.

What do you mean human beings have no future? That all people will die? I admit that's a possibility but I find it very unlikely barring a catastrophic worldwide disaster. If you mean that humanity will separate into the haves and the have-nots, and that people will be exploited and general nastiness will be going on; well, isn't that the way things have always been? Everybody steals from everybody. The corporations steal from the people, Royalty steals from the peasents, the invaders steal from the natives... and of course the rich steal from the poor, that's what makes them rich!

And what does the ability to tell the difference between what is real and what is not have to do with having a future? Humanity has been subject to the greatest lie of all time (religion) and it's still here. How is worshipping a fake god different from worshipping a fake "friend" on television? At least we are slowly weaning ourselves off of religion; putting such superstitious nonsense behind us is our best chance at having a real future.

Master_Shake · 07-22-2004, 08:29 PM

I'm not at all offended, I'm just responding to your post. I acknowledge you have strong opinions, and maybe I'm making mine a little stronger in a "Devil's Advocate" kind of way because I saw the next three posts after yours were all in agreement with you.

And I have absolutely given in to the man. Fighting the Man lands you in jail or makes you a Man yourself. I don't want to be exploited and I don't want to exploit others. I'm just trying to make my way in the world.

And I wouldn't drive 10 miles out of the way to Wal-Mart just to buy a hammer. There's actually a wal-mart less than 2 miles from my apartment and I generally only go there when I'm buying several things so as to save on gas. I may be an ass but I'm still poor so fuel economy does matter to me.

Hey, I really wish somebody would step up and make the world a better place. But I recognize that I am not smart, talented, attractive, or motivated enough to do so.

As I believe Clint Eastwood said in For a Few Dollars More, "A man's got to know his limitations."

ARTelevision · 07-22-2004, 08:46 PM

I mean that we will continue turning reality itself - including our lives - into media (technology). At a certain point we will be pure technology. That will be the point where "human beings" no longer "exkst"/

What happens after that is fascinating to speculate about but it won't be a "human" future.

Dawson70 · 07-22-2004, 09:42 PM

As far as the compassion part.......I brought that up because of something that happened.
While I was driving on I-94 coming into Milwaukee, I noticed a car with flashers on the side of the road. No biggy right?
Anyways, it was about 9:30 pm and it was raining slightly. As I drove past, I saw that the car had a flat tire in the front and saw a woman standing alongside her car, looking at it. I quickly crossed over 3 lanes of hiway to pull over.
When I put my car in reverse to back up to her (I went past about 1/4 mile) I saw that she ran back into her car.
When I finally reached her car, she was locked in.
I asked her if she needed help, but she said there was a tow truck on the way and I wasn't needed. Of course she said all this through her window, without even rolling it down.
As I drove away, I shook my head in disbelief. Not the fact she was afraid, but how did we get so paranoid as a society?
So, she opted to pay for a tow truck driver and wait the extra time. I don't think I'm a scarry looking guy. I mean I have short hair and so on and so on. I know, that weirdo's come in all forms, but I was just a little confused on the whole deal.
There I'm done!

Master_Shake · 07-23-2004, 04:49 AM

ARTelevision - But is the transformation of humanity into pure technology necessarily a bad thing? Sorry if you've posted about this elsewhere, but I am new.

tiberry · 07-23-2004, 05:34 AM

If you look for "problems" you will find them. Humans have the unique ability to rapidly adapt to nearly ANY conditions, whether physical or social. That's one of the key differences of humans and the rest of the animals.

Mom and Pop stores were nice in their day - as were horse and buggys, 8-tracks, and wooden ships....that's progress. Its a function of progress, especially when it happens rather fast - that someone or something get's cut out abruptly and consequently doesn't have time to adapt...is that a bad thing?

Your "wave at the neighbors" thing to me is a different topic all together. Technological progress seems to have an adverse affect on social progress - I'll agree with you there. I can't quite place my finger on it, but it seems that the more technologically advanced societies no longer have a need or desire to "wave at their neighbors" - why is that? I just don't think it HAS to be that way...

ARTelevision · 07-23-2004, 05:57 AM

Master_Shake, all one has to do is look at the content of the "entertainment" technology we habitually produce.

It will be a nightmare. And it will be eternal.

Bill O'Rights · 07-23-2004, 06:49 AM

I dunno. The world has been going to hell since humans first became the dominant species. Every age, since the written word, has had its tales of doom. We're no different as we enter into the dawn of th 21st century.

tiberry · 07-23-2004, 06:55 AM

I can't disagree with general statements like "The world has been going to hell..." but what I don't understand is:

1. What drives that perception? More than anything, it seems that its the feeling that things are happening that are just morally and socially wrong - we're becoming less human. Do you agree?

2. What are the factors/reasons that make this so difficult to change? It seems that everyone, or at least a great majority of people feel this way - yet we seem to be just "observing" that fact and doing little - if anything, to change it.

What have you done recently to change this trend?

Bill O'Rights · 07-23-2004, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tiberry
Your "wave at the neighbors" thing to me is a different topic all together. Technological progress seems to have an adverse affect on social progress - I'll agree with you there. I can't quite place my finger on it, but it seems that the more technologically advanced societies no longer have a need or desire to "wave at their neighbors" - why is that? I just don't think it HAS to be that way...

I don't know that it has to be that way. I do know that with such amenities as air conditioning, people tend to spend more time inside their homes. Gone are the days of sitting out on your front porch waving to George and Martha, as they sit on their front porch, enjoying a bit of cool summer breeze and a glass of iced tea, or lemonade. We have stereo's, TV's, VCR's, DVD player's, home entertainment systems, and a host of other items, in our homes, designed to keep us from interacting with our fellow human beings. For every positive, there is a negative. Yin and Yang. It's just the universe trying to keep balance.

tiberry · 07-23-2004, 07:27 AM

Sounds like ARTelevision's view a little. That the media takes the place of social interaction...very interesting. Of course then, you can boil that down to:

Technology advancements have demonstratedly taken the place of social dependencies that most consider basic human needs.

It just seems so obvious to me - yet we continue to allow it to happen. If everyone lost their air conditioner and TV, VCR, and DVD then we'd have to sit on the porch and talk about life again.

On a side note though - think of the TFP. There's a technology that's being used for "good". When's the last time you had this many people on your porch!

Bill O'Rights · 07-23-2004, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tiberry
On a side note though - think of the TFP. There's a technology that's being used for "good". When's the last time you had this many people on your porch!

Good point. But the TFP, as remarkable as it is, is still only artificial interaction. True that there is more of a "proactive" interaction than say...TV, but it's artificial just the same. The internet will never fill the void created by the demise of the good old fashioned front porch.

tiberry · 07-23-2004, 08:17 AM

Well said - I see your point. There's just something missing, as good as it is. Maybe its the lemonade or the swing!?

Master_Shake · 07-23-2004, 09:07 AM

I admit I never sat outside on the porch sipping lemonade, but how thrilling were those conversations really?

And I completely disagree with the sentiment that the world is going to hell. There's no need to prophesize about the downfall of humanity; Sartre was right, hell is other people.

But consider that this comes from a germ-a-phobe with a serious case of social anxiety.

Master_Shake · 07-23-2004, 09:19 AM

tiberry

1. This is probably something that every generation goes through. As people get older, they become more accustomed to the same schema and have difficulty with new ideas or changes to their lifestyles. I do not agree that we are becoming less human. Unless by human you mean purely homo sapiens; in which case we probably are becoming less human. In general human beings today are taller, smarter, and live longer than human beings of a few thousand or maybe even hundred years ago. Some of this is due to evolutionary changes, and some of this is due to scientific abilities. I always find it fascinating that we are on the cusp of being able to direct our own evolutionary changes. If individuals want to have children with longer fingers, it may soon be possible to choose exactly such a trait (See the film GATTACA for a great discussion of these issues).

2. It should be difficult to change. New generations should be able to choose their social and technological factors. Imposing an older worldview (i.e. that porch conversations are better than text messaging) stifles change and new ideas. I mean really, if society has always been going to hell, then going back to old ideas will not change that; only new ideas have a chance at bringing about universal peace and compassion (or whatever your goal).

I haven't done anything. I barely consider myself part of the human race, and even then I recognize my status as a passive observer, not an active participant. What have you done?

braindamage351 · 07-23-2004, 01:37 PM

Society was screwed to begin with. It's destruction is the logical conclusion.

jaypc2 · 07-25-2004, 03:56 PM

we've just become so involved in sociecty and technogely, that we've simply forgoten what its like to be 'human' if you will.... a human with well 'free will' true we'd like to think we have free will and what not but think about how much of our lives are controlled by the media, politics, and major corporations. I mean many of these things have "frame-worked" us into believing what they want us to believe.. think about it..

and as far as technogly "taking over the world" i see it as a major possibility but that doens't mean that im gonna not embrace it i mean look at all the good things that technogly has brought our way. We need to keep using it and creating it just with tastefull discression..,.. but i have a feeling thta im just rambling really so ill stop

thats just my 2 cents

kinsaj · 07-25-2004, 10:56 PM

How does the media control you? or any technology for that matter...

All you have to do is turn off the TV/radio/computer/AC/etc...
Yes, you will have to cope with the loss of the benefits of them, but you still have all the right in the world to simply leave everything and live your life to the fullest in any way you choose.
Also, there is a lot of people victimizing themselves which gets me a bit mad... What can I do? apart from posting my opinion...

(All IMHO)

Master_Shake · 07-26-2004, 04:38 AM

Quote:

we'd like to think we have free will and what not

I've never made that claim. I think free will is mostly an illusion.

anitra · 07-26-2004, 04:39 AM

i agree with what all of you have said.

i think the real issue is change and our uncomfortableness with it. it is easier to go along with the program, whether it be society, media, our educational system, our jobs or within ourselves. we are uncomfortable with the process or the unknown. it is easier, even though we talk about it and complain, to just go along with what we already know.

it sounds to me that you have recognized these issues within yourself but you are stuck at the point of complacensy(?).

ManWithAPlan · 07-26-2004, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Let me start by saying that I am not the type of person that will dwell on issues, until they make me crazy.

amen.

Quote:

I hear people complain about the poor quality of Evil-Mart and the less than standard customer service, but yet, the next day, they return for more crap.

The alternative being what? make your own stuff? they've got us under siege.

Quote:

Corporations ARE taking over the world

i agree, like Collegeboard... does anyone else thing it's kind of sketchy that one company controls where everyone goes to college??? i mean they can set the bar as low or as high as they want and nothing would be able to change. i personally think that the SATS are a horrible test with unreasonable standards that don't even reflect competence or intelligence.

Quote:

Lastly, where did the compassion go? What ever happened to "wave to your neighbor" or "help to fix a flat tire on the expressway". We have backed ourselves into a corner on this one. The media has us so terrified of each other,

I don't think i'm gonna get shot at any moment, especially not by my neighbor or someone who is stuck on the expressway. i just don't have time for things like that... if i'm driving i'm on a timebudget and often in a hurry...

Quote:

The one that through me into a rage was when I took my son to the doctor for a sore throat. This unpretensious Ped Doctor had the gall to ask me......if I had any firearms in the house.........WHAT? What does that have to do with his throat??? Wow........I can only watch with awe!

you should have been like "yeah, got a problem with that?"

i'm only joking of course.

Quote:

Originally posted by DEI37
I agree pretty much. I think this country will meet it's doom in our lifetime.

I think that the world will end in our lifetime.... just completely disassemble.

Quote:

Originally posted by mcovey
100% agree.
Maybe 99.

People aren't scared of each other, people are just raised to believe that they are "unique individuals" etc. In such a fashion that they believe they are better than anyone else. We're all guilty of this, not wanting to help someone

Thinking... "he wouldnt help me", or something.
Whenever I see one of my neighbors, I wave. It's courteous and shows mutual respect, not a mutual feeling of superiority.

comrade, we need a new wave of communism.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dawson70
While I was growing up, I was raised in a family of Funeral Directors. Of course, before I branched off and went to Engineering School, I worked and observed alot of sadness and grief in the family business.
Part of my training was to "sell" families products, as all Funeral Directors do. But even in the Funeral Biz, there are marketing Tatics. The one that stands out in my mind, is the "Minds Eye" theory. Basicaly it is taught, the Minds Eye can not tell the difference between what is imaginary vs what is reality. I am sure you have all at one time, thought of something that excited you, or made you sad. Your body begins to react accordingly to that emotion. Even thou, it did not "physically" endure it, your body cannot tell the difference. Your hands sweat, your stomach gets "butterflies" etc etc.

The media has begun to use this against us. They control the minds eye, and we, as humans......cannot tell the difference.

We are in trouble......hopefully we are not done evolving and can cure this natural fault.

The fact that you can call that (the last line) shows that YOU are already on your way past it. just make sure to raise your kids in a way so that they are aware of it, although i will tell you now, from experience, growing up without naivete is a living hell, but you have to endure the worst to attain the best.

Quote:

Originally posted by Master_Shake

Sure, maybe someday Wal-Mart will control most markets and they will raise their prices. Well, I'm not totally stupid (just mostly) so if the new S-Mart begins selling the same stuff cheaper I will shop there. Consumer allegiance to Mom and Pop stores isn't any more noble than allegiance to any other company. None of them are on your side, they all want your money.

To your last sentence: amen.

By the way... Double Post... Triple Post.... Edit Button

Quote:

I'm not at all offended, I'm just responding to your post. I acknowledge you have strong opinions, and maybe I'm making mine a little stronger in a "Devil's Advocate" kind of way because I saw the next three posts after yours were all in agreement with you.

Master_Shake, as i understand, devil's advocate means that you don't actually agree with what you're defending so much as you're doing it just 'because someone has to do it' so you might not want to use that analogy.

ARTelevision:

Quote:

I mean that we will continue turning reality itself - including our lives - into media (technology). At a certain point we will be pure technology. That will be the point where "human beings" no longer "exkst"/

Thank god for stubborn devout religious zealots who stop us from getting into things like cloning and abortion, right?
(not to offend anyone, i'm just making a point that there will always be that check-factor)

Tiberry:

Quote:

Your "wave at the neighbors" thing to me is a different topic all together. Technological progress seems to have an adverse affect on social progress - I'll agree with you there. I can't quite place my finger on it, but it seems that the more technologically advanced societies no longer have a need or desire to "wave at their neighbors" - why is that? I just don't think it HAS to be that way...

Before headphones came out, would you ever start talking to someone just to have them scream at you "I CANT HEAR YOU, SORRY"? (point)

Bill O'Rights:

Quote:

Good point. But the TFP, as remarkable as it is, is still only artificial interaction. True that there is more of a "proactive" interaction than say...TV, but it's artificial just the same. The internet will never fill the void created by the demise of the good old fashioned front porch.

I disagree, it's interaction on a mass scale. This is a hub connecting thousands of lives. We are beings predominantly ruled by intellect and these are purely intellectual relationships that we lead here as we convene to discuss intellectual turmoil.

Quote:

Originally posted by kinsaj
How does the media control you? or any technology for that matter...

All you have to do is turn off the TV/radio/computer/AC/etc...
Yes, you will have to cope with the loss of the benefits of them, but you still have all the right in the world to simply leave everything and live your life to the fullest in any way you choose.
Also, there is a lot of people victimizing themselves which gets me a bit mad... What can I do? apart from posting my opinion...

(All IMHO)

Come on, you can't just live without TV, you depend on it for your news atleast.

Master_Shake · 07-27-2004, 01:25 PM

Quote:

devil's advocate means that you don't actually agree with what you're defending so much as you're doing it just 'because someone has to do it' so you might not want to use that analogy.

No, that's pretty much what I meant. I think I wrote that I was making my post sound stronger in a "Devil's Advocate" kind of way, (rather than playing a pure "Devil's Advocate") because I didn't totally agree with everything I wrote, but when I happened on the page the first three responses were all favourable to the main post, none of them challenging the view at all. I felt some disagreement with his main idea, but not enough to post until I saw such a complete lack of opposition.

kinsaj · 07-27-2004, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ManWithAPlan

Come on, you can't just live without TV, you depend on it for your news atleast.

dont own a TV... use internet for news and radio occasionally.

You can live without news too.

ManWithAPlan · 07-27-2004, 05:19 PM

you call that life?

Mantus · 07-27-2004, 08:23 PM

TV news is terrible. They only focus on the negative because it sells. I flip on the local news and the first 30 minutes are devoted to violence that happened in the city. My city is one of the safest in North America yet watching the news on would think we are in the middle of a war.

CNN is hands down the worst news available. They are on 24 hours a day yet they say absolutely nothing in all that time. They political debates are shallow, their war coverage is biased and they never tackle the tough and controversial issues. No wonder Americans are so fucking confused about the world around them.

Johnny Rotten · 07-28-2004, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dawson70
The "babyboomers" are in control at this moment. They have been allowing these companies to dismantle our industry and have created foreign policies, such as NAFTA, to only benfit themselves. There is no "insight" on repercussions, because frankly, they don't give a shit. They will dump the shit barrel over to the rest of us, and I doubt we will be able to repair much of the damage. Not to mention, they are greety and control freaks. If they don't have something go just there way, they blow a fuse. I have seen more temper tantrums from 50 year olds than I have 3 year olds. It strikes me as "spoiled" and that is how they deal with issues.

It goes a bit deeper than this, in that many of these baby boomers are directly profiting from such an arrangement, either through stock portfolios, or by by actually being in control of these companies--or otherwise in a position of executive power.

As for things being cheaper at Wal-Mart...how much is your time worth to you? I've never gotten past the cash register in a reasonable amount of time, and forget about returning anything--it's a nightmare. I used to work as a returns associate at a certain home improvement chain. There were a grand total of two returns employees on location at any given time, while we usually had ten cash registers ringing up purchases. God help you if you (1) need to bring something back or (2) can't locate the item you want to buy. Then there's getting in and out of the parking lot.

And then there's places like Best Buy where they almost assault you with offers for extended warranties, magazine subscriptions, and any add-on purchase they can think of (toner and paper for your printer, free installation of any electronics smaller than a shoebox, extra this, extra that). There was a big scandal with a Jiffy Lube-type franchise where one of the employees stated anonymously that the customer NEVER, EVER leaves the building with just the $39.99 oil change.

Sure, you may shave a few bucks off, but these places charge a hidden fee of customer contempt, harassment, and general inconvenience. At the returns desk of that home improvment store, we would take your driver's license information and store it in a database. It was to catch people trying to cheat the company, but there's probably a better way. The point is, the company doesn't give a shit about you, so this method is Good Enough.

We had one guy who refused to show his identification, and it took him at least ten minutes of wrangling with an assitant manager who--I shit you not--called the legal department on the other side of the country in an effort to try to enforce the invasive policy. Here this customer was, being forced to hold up the line just so he could maintain his legal dignity.

I think they only have two returns registers open precisely so that they can pile up people behind you, making you feel self-conscious about not accepting whatever the policy dictates. Sure, there were people who came in, bought something, used the shit out of it, and tried to get a refund. There were people who came in with expensive products I'd never seen before, claiming they'd gotten them at that store, with no receipt or other proof of purchase. Sure, you save a little pocket change by shopping at Home Depot, or Best Buy, or Wal-Mart.

But you know why so many poor people shop there? Because the corporations have run everyone else around them out of business--people who could have employed you and definitely would have paid you more money. Instead, you're flipping burgers or--the ultimate cosmic slap in the face--you're working for the very store that pushed everyone else out, because you can't find work anywhere else and must put up with their meager pay and typically chronic understaffing.

Joe's Hardware Shack might not be the efficient, money sucking machine that gets shareholders all hot and bothered; it's likely not the kind of place they would ever have to stoop to shopping at--but an energetic, motivated employee is what makes all the difference in the world. Instead of slouching his way through the day, inwardly scowling at his boss and everyone who walks through the front door, he gets all his work done, keeps the line moving, answers questions, tidies up, and can brighten your day with nothing more than a friendly smile. His smile is so powerful precisely because of the standard megastore employee we're used to: slouching his way through the day and inwardly scowling at his boss and everyone who walks through the front door. Smugly shirking work and talking shit about the customers barely out of earshot.

Why are these employees so crappy? Because they've been forced to work there by the store, in the Borg-like assimilation I outlined above. Taken to its logical extreme, almost everyone could be employed by one megastore or another, while an elite ruling class dabbles in the stock market and take cruises to lush, tropical climes.

Hypothetically.

Take a look around you.

ManWithAPlan · 07-28-2004, 06:47 PM

as someone who's worked at a supermarket before.... you can't blame people with jobs like that for not being peppy and energetic...

you spend the whole day doing mind-numbing tasks for ASSHOLES and you see 100,000 people a day... "hello sir, hi ma'am" "would you like paper or plastic?" over and over...

it's the ultimate degradation when idiots treat you like you're not worth their time... so why even bother?

it's not so much the stores as the customers... on the other hand, it would get really annoying to have a conversation with each of the 100,000... anyway i have a job interview tomorrow for a real job, so i'm gonna tuck in:-)

Dawson70 · 07-31-2004, 03:17 PM

Wow...Manwithaplan, you have certainly contributed to this thread. Thank you. All of the replies I read have had very interesting points. After reading them again, I have concluded that my opinion is based around smalltown-USA. That is why I expect neighbors to be friendly and etc etc.
The larger cities have there place in our society. They offer the ammenities that other choose to be without. (by living in Bumfuck Northwoods).
Thanks again for your thoughts.

Dawson70 · 07-31-2004, 03:33 PM

After reading Halx's "My Afterlife" thread it got me thinking again...oh no...
He mentions something to the point, that we as humans already have the "good and bad" built with in us. (not an exact quote) and this leads me to my next statment.
Between religion and society we are "programmed" from birth on how to determine the difference between right and wrong.
Religion tries to "balckmail" us into beliveing ther way of thinking.
Society, shuns and "black lists" people for not following along the plan. You really get it from two seperate ends.
If I go buy porn, why do I feel I have to hide my face when I come out the front door. Why are there so many "backdoors" to these establishments. Now I feel like a 3rd rate citizen when I want to smoke a ciggrette or purchase a gun. Heaven forbid....I do all 3 in the same day.....~meltdown!
This was sort of my point in the origianl thread. I have tried to understand the "trends" of our society. It will never ring clear.
I question the reasoning of these issues. Guncontrol, Anti smoking, Anti Porn, Anti abortion, anti anti anti or
Pro Gun, Pro Choice, Pro Rain forest.
Depending on the "movement" my status of a desent American citizen gets more depleated by the hour.
I enjoy porn, I own many guns and I smoke cigs. But I also raise my children well, I pay my taxes, I support the Boy Scouts (or any other charity that shows up at my door).
I hate being "classified" by people that don't know me or don't want to know me.
Don't get me wrong here. I am not a killer or do I wish harm on any one not deserving it. I know the difference between right and wrong......but do I? I know enough not to inflict harm to others or rob the 7/11......but beyond the "obvious do's and don't's....do I know? Do I care? Do I want to know?
Ah, I'll take a break now. whew!

saltfish · 08-01-2004, 07:41 PM

Yes, there are problems with the media, I will agree with anyone on that remark.

Though, we have to be responsible enough to throttle our media exposure. We need to consider the amount of content that we allow ourselves to watch. We need to consider the sources of information presented to us and determine the amount of validity in such information. We also need to remember that anyone who is taking the time and effort to send us a message is doing so for their benefit, not ours.

Anywhere you go, anything that you do you must understand that no-one out in this world has all the answers. There are no absolutes from any one person. If you are led to beleive that any one source can give you all the answers you have become a sheep. Such things happen when you do only consider one side of the story, or get all of your information from a single source. You tend to pick up and repeat the biases that were presented to you from said source.

It is up to parents, educators and ultimately the individual to take responsibility and actively filter that which is input into the mind. Only by effectively considering reliability of information expressed by a party can one make reasonable decisions.

-SF

07-22-2004, 04:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
Dawson70 Here to Help My Fellow TFP'er Location: All over the Net....(ok Wisconsin)	There is something wrong with our society Let me start by saying that I am not the type of person that will dwell on issues, until they make me crazy. There are so many problems with our society as a "whole", that you can't help but stop and gaze in disbelief. I am in the generation as most will refer to as "X". This is the unfortunate placement between the "babyboomers" and the "techno" profiles. As I look around, I see so much hostility and anger in so many people. I am not talking about issues such as the "middle east", that is a whole different subject. I am talking about just every day ordinary people that we are forced to deal with on a daily basis. First and foremost, the corporations ARE taking over the world. Companies such as Wal-Mart and Microsoft, control more of our intrests than you might think. I feel bad that my kids will never be able to appreciate the finer qualities of a "mom and pop" corner store. They will never smell the inside of a butcher's shop or a real candy store with the old wooden floors and soda fountains. The minute Evil-Mart comes into town, they force all the other shops to close. It makes me wonder how stupid our society has become, to run to the new center and pay two dollars less for something that they will have to return in a few days anyways, due to the fact, that it is junk. I hear people complain about the poor quality of Evil-Mart and the less than standard customer service, but yet, the next day, they return for more crap. It doesn't make sense??? I try to understand the theroy of economics and the supply and demand equations, but still it doesn't ring clear. The "babyboomers" are in control at this moment. They have been allowing these companies to dismantle our industry and have created foreign policies, such as NAFTA, to only benfit themselves. There is no "insight" on repercussions, because frankly, they don't give a shit. They will dump the shit barrel over to the rest of us, and I doubt we will be able to repair much of the damage. Not to mention, they are greety and control freaks. If they don't have something go just there way, they blow a fuse. I have seen more temper tantrums from 50 year olds than I have 3 year olds. It strikes me as "spoiled" and that is how they deal with issues. To proove my point, If any of you ever get the chance to watch our Senate of Congess in action, you will see what I mean. Also, try this out...... challange one of these people on one of their issues, such as "politics" If you ask the right question, you will watch the tantrum begin. They hate the thought of someone questioning thier reasoning. It a joke. Lastly, where did the compassion go? What ever happened to "wave to your neighbor" or "help to fix a flat tire on the expressway". We have backed ourselves into a corner on this one. The media has us so terrified of each other, that we believe at any minute, we will be shot, raped, beat or killed. We sit in front of that idiot box and allow the marketing and news folks, tell us how to live and what to buy. Our sense of "free thinking" has disappeared. I look in my childrens eyes, their glowing faces and sparkeling eyes, with shame. I feel bad for what they will endure when my generation is too old to help. Of course they will blame us for the turmoil, but that will just be the cause and effect working it's way through the universe. There are so many other issues, but not enough space to cover them all. Healthcare Costs (what a joke), Insurance Companies (same thing), Theft from us by the Oil Mongers (yup I said it) and poor politics (nothing new). It makes me sick to think that we sit here and do nothing. The biggest scam yet? The American Physicians Association in conjunction with the Pharmicudicals. Don't eat eggs....oh wait....go ahead and eat eggs. Here....load up on these drugs to fight colesterol and heart disease. Make sure you take them everday, until your either dead or broke. The one that through me into a rage was when I took my son to the doctor for a sore throat. This unpretensious Ped Doctor had the gall to ask me......if I had any firearms in the house.........WHAT? What does that have to do with his throat??? Wow........I can only watch with awe! This is just one man's opinion...... __________________ "I Finally Finished My Goal....You Can Too! Yippie Ki Ya...

07-22-2004, 04:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I agree pretty much. I think this country will meet it's doom in our lifetime. I hate to say it, but looking at the situations we've put ourselves in, can you disagree? Oh, and don't even get me started on insurance companies. I hate those people. Our country has sold out to the rich whom are making themselves richer, only to make the poor poorer. I don't make but $20k a year. Know what my chances are of improving that substantially without moving to a big city, and drastically increasing the cost of living? Yeah, you guessed it...next to none. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

07-22-2004, 05:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	As you may already know, I think human beings have no future because we have arrived at the point where we cannot tell the difference between what is media and what is real. __________________ create evolution

07-22-2004, 07:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	Well, I mean, what do you expect? Of course those in power are going to "stack the deck" to make it easier for them and theirs. That's the way things have always been and I don't see any likelihood that will change in the near future. If you are so upset that you want to take action against these injustices, I see two options. First, as I believe Mrax and Engles suggested, you must gain control over the means of production. Then you can dictate your will to others. I'm sure that once you and your ilk replace the current corrupt bastards in power you will make the world a fair and reasonable place, never placing the interests of your children or your friends above the interests of others. It will truly be a marvelous place. Second, do as I intend to do, gather what limited resources you can by playing within the Man's system, then flee to Chile. By Chile, I don't necessarily mean Chile, but rather just a place where you can excape the Man. I hear Antarctica is also very nice, and if you can afford it the Moon is the way to go. __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

07-22-2004, 07:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	And dude, I shop at Wal-Mart. I'm not proud of it, but I do it because I am poor.* Wal-Mart sells things more cheaply than the Mom and Pop stores; so for me it's not a question. When I go shopping for laundry detergent and a hammer, I'm not looking for customer service. I just want the stuff with as little hassle as possible. I agree that some of the long-term material goods sold by Wal-Mart (like clothing) is not designed to last. I generally avoid such purchases and buy over the internet now because that's where I find the best deals. Sure, maybe someday Wal-Mart will control most markets and they will raise their prices. Well, I'm not totally stupid (just mostly) so if the new S-Mart begins selling the same stuff cheaper I will shop there. Consumer allegiance to Mom and Pop stores isn't any more noble than allegiance to any other company. None of them are on your side, they all want your money. *Poor for an American, which pretty much means I am not poor when compared to most poor people in the rest of the world. __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

07-22-2004, 05:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
mcovey Upright	100% agree. Maybe 99. People aren't scared of each other, people are just raised to believe that they are "unique individuals" etc. In such a fashion that they believe they are better than anyone else. We're all guilty of this, not wanting to help someone Thinking... "he wouldnt help me", or something. Whenever I see one of my neighbors, I wave. It's courteous and shows mutual respect, not a mutual feeling of superiority.

07-22-2004, 07:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	And WTF do you mean by where did the compassion go? What ever happened to "wave to your neighbor" of "help to fix a flat tire on the expressway." It sounds like you are pining for some kind of suburban happy land. I'm sure those places do exist around the country; small towns scattered here and there. But not all of us like that kind of contact. Such familiarity also erodes at your privacy to have people watching for you to leave your house, and checking up on what you are doing. I value what little privacy I have and I like to know that when I'm masturbating in used napkins to Asian porn at 3AM I don't have some nosey neighbor looking through my windows worried that my house is being burgaled because some lights are on. I vaguely remember a George Carlin skit from the early '90s decrying the overuse of victimhood, especially the idea of innocent victims. There are no innocent victims; your birth certificate is proof of your guilt. Damn, your post really got me excited. __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

07-22-2004, 08:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	And to paraphrase another George Carlin skit: You say "...to prove my point, If any of you ever get the chance to watch our Senate of Congess in action, you will see what I mean..." and that the BabyBoomers are currently in charge and are spoiled and rotten. Well where do these politicians and BabyBoomers and others come from? They come from American schools, American churches, American neighborhoods. They aren't pod people; they are home-grown bastards. They are just like the rest of us. So instead of "the physicians suck," how about the people suck. The People Suck. Put that on a bumper sticker. __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

07-22-2004, 08:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
Dawson70 Here to Help My Fellow TFP'er Location: All over the Net....(ok Wisconsin)	Thats the attitude I am questioning. Don't get me wrong, I greatly value your opinion. But to me, it seems you have conceeded to your ways and the things around you. You have your ideas of what is good, and I have mine. It does not mean either of us is correct. You would rather pass 2 hardware stores and drive 10 miles to Wal Mart to buy a hammer. This is the question......why? To save a buck? I said in my first thread, that I understand the economic factor and the corporate offerings and I know that their are many people on tight budgets. I understand all of that. My whole issue, is the control (or there lack of) by us, the consumer, the human, the patient etc. I apoligize in advance if I have offended you in any way. That is not my intention. But I am glad you are worked up over this. Keeps us sharp and thinking. PS. I am a big fan of Goergy Boy, however, he is one of the biggest hippicrits on TV. Also, he's a baby boomer __________________ "I Finally Finished My Goal....You Can Too! Yippie Ki Ya... Last edited by Dawson70; 07-22-2004 at 08:14 PM..

07-22-2004, 08:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	I'm not at all offended, I'm just responding to your post. I acknowledge you have strong opinions, and maybe I'm making mine a little stronger in a "Devil's Advocate" kind of way because I saw the next three posts after yours were all in agreement with you. And I have absolutely given in to the man. Fighting the Man lands you in jail or makes you a Man yourself. I don't want to be exploited and I don't want to exploit others. I'm just trying to make my way in the world. And I wouldn't drive 10 miles out of the way to Wal-Mart just to buy a hammer. There's actually a wal-mart less than 2 miles from my apartment and I generally only go there when I'm buying several things so as to save on gas. I may be an ass but I'm still poor so fuel economy does matter to me. Hey, I really wish somebody would step up and make the world a better place. But I recognize that I am not smart, talented, attractive, or motivated enough to do so. As I believe Clint Eastwood said in For a Few Dollars More, "A man's got to know his limitations." __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here. Last edited by Master_Shake; 07-22-2004 at 08:34 PM..

07-22-2004, 08:46 PM	#13 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	I mean that we will continue turning reality itself - including our lives - into media (technology). At a certain point we will be pure technology. That will be the point where "human beings" no longer "exkst"/ What happens after that is fascinating to speculate about but it won't be a "human" future. __________________ create evolution

07-22-2004, 09:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dawson70 Here to Help My Fellow TFP'er Location: All over the Net....(ok Wisconsin)	As far as the compassion part.......I brought that up because of something that happened. While I was driving on I-94 coming into Milwaukee, I noticed a car with flashers on the side of the road. No biggy right? Anyways, it was about 9:30 pm and it was raining slightly. As I drove past, I saw that the car had a flat tire in the front and saw a woman standing alongside her car, looking at it. I quickly crossed over 3 lanes of hiway to pull over. When I put my car in reverse to back up to her (I went past about 1/4 mile) I saw that she ran back into her car. When I finally reached her car, she was locked in. I asked her if she needed help, but she said there was a tow truck on the way and I wasn't needed. Of course she said all this through her window, without even rolling it down. As I drove away, I shook my head in disbelief. Not the fact she was afraid, but how did we get so paranoid as a society? So, she opted to pay for a tow truck driver and wait the extra time. I don't think I'm a scarry looking guy. I mean I have short hair and so on and so on. I know, that weirdo's come in all forms, but I was just a little confused on the whole deal. There I'm done! __________________ "I Finally Finished My Goal....You Can Too! Yippie Ki Ya...

07-23-2004, 04:49 AM	#15 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	ARTelevision - But is the transformation of humanity into pure technology necessarily a bad thing? Sorry if you've posted about this elsewhere, but I am new. __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

07-23-2004, 05:34 AM	#16 (permalink)
tiberry Insane Location: Location, Location!	If you look for "problems" you will find them. Humans have the unique ability to rapidly adapt to nearly ANY conditions, whether physical or social. That's one of the key differences of humans and the rest of the animals. Mom and Pop stores were nice in their day - as were horse and buggys, 8-tracks, and wooden ships....that's progress. Its a function of progress, especially when it happens rather fast - that someone or something get's cut out abruptly and consequently doesn't have time to adapt...is that a bad thing? Your "wave at the neighbors" thing to me is a different topic all together. Technological progress seems to have an adverse affect on social progress - I'll agree with you there. I can't quite place my finger on it, but it seems that the more technologically advanced societies no longer have a need or desire to "wave at their neighbors" - why is that? I just don't think it HAS to be that way... __________________ My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

07-23-2004, 05:57 AM	#17 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Master_Shake, all one has to do is look at the content of the "entertainment" technology we habitually produce. It will be a nightmare. And it will be eternal. __________________ create evolution

07-23-2004, 06:49 AM	#18 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	I dunno. The world has been going to hell since humans first became the dominant species. Every age, since the written word, has had its tales of doom. We're no different as we enter into the dawn of th 21st century. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

07-23-2004, 06:55 AM	#19 (permalink)
tiberry Insane Location: Location, Location!	I can't disagree with general statements like "The world has been going to hell..." but what I don't understand is: 1. What drives that perception? More than anything, it seems that its the feeling that things are happening that are just morally and socially wrong - we're becoming less human. Do you agree? 2. What are the factors/reasons that make this so difficult to change? It seems that everyone, or at least a great majority of people feel this way - yet we seem to be just "observing" that fact and doing little - if anything, to change it. What have you done recently to change this trend? __________________ My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

07-23-2004, 07:27 AM	#21 (permalink)
tiberry Insane Location: Location, Location!	Sounds like ARTelevision's view a little. That the media takes the place of social interaction...very interesting. Of course then, you can boil that down to: Technology advancements have demonstratedly taken the place of social dependencies that most consider basic human needs. It just seems so obvious to me - yet we continue to allow it to happen. If everyone lost their air conditioner and TV, VCR, and DVD then we'd have to sit on the porch and talk about life again. On a side note though - think of the TFP. There's a technology that's being used for "good". When's the last time you had this many people on your porch! __________________ My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

07-23-2004, 08:17 AM	#23 (permalink)
tiberry Insane Location: Location, Location!	Well said - I see your point. There's just something missing, as good as it is. Maybe its the lemonade or the swing!? __________________ My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

07-23-2004, 09:07 AM	#24 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	I admit I never sat outside on the porch sipping lemonade, but how thrilling were those conversations really? And I completely disagree with the sentiment that the world is going to hell. There's no need to prophesize about the downfall of humanity; Sartre was right, hell is other people. But consider that this comes from a germ-a-phobe with a serious case of social anxiety. __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

07-23-2004, 09:19 AM	#25 (permalink)
Master_Shake Addict Location: Pennsylvania, USA	to tiberry tiberry 1. This is probably something that every generation goes through. As people get older, they become more accustomed to the same schema and have difficulty with new ideas or changes to their lifestyles. I do not agree that we are becoming less human. Unless by human you mean purely homo sapiens; in which case we probably are becoming less human. In general human beings today are taller, smarter, and live longer than human beings of a few thousand or maybe even hundred years ago. Some of this is due to evolutionary changes, and some of this is due to scientific abilities. I always find it fascinating that we are on the cusp of being able to direct our own evolutionary changes. If individuals want to have children with longer fingers, it may soon be possible to choose exactly such a trait (See the film GATTACA for a great discussion of these issues). 2. It should be difficult to change. New generations should be able to choose their social and technological factors. Imposing an older worldview (i.e. that porch conversations are better than text messaging) stifles change and new ideas. I mean really, if society has always been going to hell, then going back to old ideas will not change that; only new ideas have a chance at bringing about universal peace and compassion (or whatever your goal). I haven't done anything. I barely consider myself part of the human race, and even then I recognize my status as a passive observer, not an active participant. What have you done? __________________ ------------- You know something, I don't think the sun even... exists... in this place. 'Cause I've been up for hours, and hours, and hours, and the night never ends here.

07-23-2004, 01:37 PM	#26 (permalink)
braindamage351 Insane	Society was screwed to begin with. It's destruction is the logical conclusion.

07-25-2004, 03:56 PM	#27 (permalink)
jaypc2 Tilted Location: south east	we've just become so involved in sociecty and technogely, that we've simply forgoten what its like to be 'human' if you will.... a human with well 'free will' true we'd like to think we have free will and what not but think about how much of our lives are controlled by the media, politics, and major corporations. I mean many of these things have "frame-worked" us into believing what they want us to believe.. think about it.. and as far as technogly "taking over the world" i see it as a major possibility but that doens't mean that im gonna not embrace it i mean look at all the good things that technogly has brought our way. We need to keep using it and creating it just with tastefull discression..,.. but i have a feeling thta im just rambling really so ill stop thats just my 2 cents __________________ Zero Cool stay sexy

07-25-2004, 10:56 PM	#28 (permalink)
kinsaj Psycho Location: somewhere out there	How does the media control you? or any technology for that matter... All you have to do is turn off the TV/radio/computer/AC/etc... Yes, you will have to cope with the loss of the benefits of them, but you still have all the right in the world to simply leave everything and live your life to the fullest in any way you choose. Also, there is a lot of people victimizing themselves which gets me a bit mad... What can I do? apart from posting my opinion... (All IMHO) __________________ boom

07-26-2004, 04:39 AM	#30 (permalink)
anitra Upright Location: missouri	i agree with what all of you have said. i think the real issue is change and our uncomfortableness with it. it is easier to go along with the program, whether it be society, media, our educational system, our jobs or within ourselves. we are uncomfortable with the process or the unknown. it is easier, even though we talk about it and complain, to just go along with what we already know. it sounds to me that you have recognized these issues within yourself but you are stuck at the point of complacensy(?). __________________ i'm a monkey just swingin through the trees

07-27-2004, 05:19 PM	#34 (permalink)
ManWithAPlan Addict Location: M[ass]achusetts	you call that life? __________________ In the end we are but wisps

07-27-2004, 08:23 PM	#35 (permalink)
Mantus lascivious	TV news is terrible. They only focus on the negative because it sells. I flip on the local news and the first 30 minutes are devoted to violence that happened in the city. My city is one of the safest in North America yet watching the news on would think we are in the middle of a war. CNN is hands down the worst news available. They are on 24 hours a day yet they say absolutely nothing in all that time. They political debates are shallow, their war coverage is biased and they never tackle the tough and controversial issues. No wonder Americans are so fucking confused about the world around them.

07-28-2004, 06:47 PM	#37 (permalink)
ManWithAPlan Addict Location: M[ass]achusetts	as someone who's worked at a supermarket before.... you can't blame people with jobs like that for not being peppy and energetic... you spend the whole day doing mind-numbing tasks for ASSHOLES and you see 100,000 people a day... "hello sir, hi ma'am" "would you like paper or plastic?" over and over... it's the ultimate degradation when idiots treat you like you're not worth their time... so why even bother? it's not so much the stores as the customers... on the other hand, it would get really annoying to have a conversation with each of the 100,000... anyway i have a job interview tomorrow for a real job, so i'm gonna tuck in:-) __________________ In the end we are but wisps

07-31-2004, 03:17 PM	#38 (permalink)
Dawson70 Here to Help My Fellow TFP'er Location: All over the Net....(ok Wisconsin)	Wow...Manwithaplan, you have certainly contributed to this thread. Thank you. All of the replies I read have had very interesting points. After reading them again, I have concluded that my opinion is based around smalltown-USA. That is why I expect neighbors to be friendly and etc etc. The larger cities have there place in our society. They offer the ammenities that other choose to be without. (by living in Bumfuck Northwoods). Thanks again for your thoughts. __________________ "I Finally Finished My Goal....You Can Too! Yippie Ki Ya...

07-31-2004, 03:33 PM	#39 (permalink)
Dawson70 Here to Help My Fellow TFP'er Location: All over the Net....(ok Wisconsin)	After reading Halx's "My Afterlife" thread it got me thinking again...oh no... He mentions something to the point, that we as humans already have the "good and bad" built with in us. (not an exact quote) and this leads me to my next statment. Between religion and society we are "programmed" from birth on how to determine the difference between right and wrong. Religion tries to "balckmail" us into beliveing ther way of thinking. Society, shuns and "black lists" people for not following along the plan. You really get it from two seperate ends. If I go buy porn, why do I feel I have to hide my face when I come out the front door. Why are there so many "backdoors" to these establishments. Now I feel like a 3rd rate citizen when I want to smoke a ciggrette or purchase a gun. Heaven forbid....I do all 3 in the same day.....~meltdown! This was sort of my point in the origianl thread. I have tried to understand the "trends" of our society. It will never ring clear. I question the reasoning of these issues. Guncontrol, Anti smoking, Anti Porn, Anti abortion, anti anti anti or Pro Gun, Pro Choice, Pro Rain forest. Depending on the "movement" my status of a desent American citizen gets more depleated by the hour. I enjoy porn, I own many guns and I smoke cigs. But I also raise my children well, I pay my taxes, I support the Boy Scouts (or any other charity that shows up at my door). I hate being "classified" by people that don't know me or don't want to know me. Don't get me wrong here. I am not a killer or do I wish harm on any one not deserving it. I know the difference between right and wrong......but do I? I know enough not to inflict harm to others or rob the 7/11......but beyond the "obvious do's and don't's....do I know? Do I care? Do I want to know? Ah, I'll take a break now. whew! __________________ "I Finally Finished My Goal....You Can Too! Yippie Ki Ya... Last edited by Dawson70; 07-31-2004 at 03:36 PM..

08-01-2004, 07:41 PM	#40 (permalink)
saltfish !?!No hay pantalones!?! Location: Indian-no-place	Yes, there are problems with the media, I will agree with anyone on that remark. Though, we have to be responsible enough to throttle our media exposure. We need to consider the amount of content that we allow ourselves to watch. We need to consider the sources of information presented to us and determine the amount of validity in such information. We also need to remember that anyone who is taking the time and effort to send us a message is doing so for their benefit, not ours. Anywhere you go, anything that you do you must understand that no-one out in this world has all the answers. There are no absolutes from any one person. If you are led to beleive that any one source can give you all the answers you have become a sheep. Such things happen when you do only consider one side of the story, or get all of your information from a single source. You tend to pick up and repeat the biases that were presented to you from said source. It is up to parents, educators and ultimately the individual to take responsibility and actively filter that which is input into the mind. Only by effectively considering reliability of information expressed by a party can one make reasonable decisions. -SF