Halx

To lay the groundwork of my theories, I'm a total atheist. I believe that everything is science and nothing more. There is no god. There is no salvation. There is only what we have before us.

Up comes the question, "If you believe that when you die, your light simply goes out and you rot in the ground until you're dust, what is the purpose of living? It sounds so depressing that all you have to look forward to is that."

That's a paraphrased question from a Christian (Mormon). Religious people generally believe in ascension into heaven after a lifetime of doing good. It gives them a goal to attain while they are here. It gives them a reason to get up in the morning... because they're obligated to earn their eternal life in heaven and because the thought of languishing in eternal damnation is not worth indulging in their earthly temptations. How on earth could an Athiest like me compete with a parting package of hangin' in heaven with Jesus and the angels for eternity?

As said before; when we die, we're dust. We have no consciousness once we are gone. We have to get our pleasure now, while we still can. Life, though, can be much more than a series of self-indulgent desires stringed together. To live on, as a person, you must be remembered by others.

You may live forever, infamous in peoples' eyes, as a contributor to your society and human race. You're over as soon as people forget you. What you do with your time will touch peoples' lives and to achieve the ultimate ascension into post-humous immortality, you must touch enough people with enough genuine desire, talent and drive that they write you into history.

You don't need to believe in God to be a good person. If there is a God, will he fault you for being an awesome human being, but just not someone who bought into the deal?

To me, there is no such thing as morality. There is only hurt and help. Do enough of either and you will live forever.

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ngdawg

I believe basically the same. We are the results of evolution to this point in time-an accidental blend of chemicals and compounds that made us what we are.
I also believe that we are connected in ways we can't yet comprehend that has nothing to do with religious beliefs. Connections of the mind and body that may very well be chemical in nature, spiritual in feeling.
We are like flowers, oak leaves, roadkill and how we choose to live will determine which we resemble when we die.

tecoyah

Yeah, that pretty much covers it. I do like to hold the belief in some sort of re-incarnation though, even if I understand that it is unlikely. Just makes me feel good, and helps me to better myself.

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ARTelevision

I agree.
But - I do not want to be remembered after I die.

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Mantus

Other peoples memory will preserve you no more then your portrait after you die.

Not only do other people see you though their own eyes and therefore greatly distort your image in their minds but memory fades and people die. Even if 10 generations of people remembered you by the end it would be nothing more then a name and perhaps an occupation. And what is 10 generations to the infinite spans of time? I gave up on that “afterlife” a long time ago; it is as meaningless as all the others. I don’t really care about an after life. I don’t see why I should care. The afterlife is just another socially constructed concept to divide “us” from “them”.

This is good advice.

Manic_Skafe

I'd like to believe that if there is a supreme super being he won't fault you on the grounds of something as ambigious and relative as morality.

Although I share some of your views, I believe that there are parts of myself and my own existence than what is just seen on the surface - something worth living and searching for.

Regardless of what differences in opinion we have, I couldn't agree more with your statment about how we should strive to be as good a person as we could possibly be.

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skullfunk

I think you should look into Buddhism. I was raised a Christian until I grew up and took a liking to history and philosophy--the two great demons of the Catholic Church. After finding out the atrocities that have been and still are committed by people in the name of my religion, I was numbed by my faith. Then, with the exploration of philosophy and how even proving the existence of
God is a crapshoot, I was lost forever. Then I found Eastern philosophy. It mostly spurns the idea of God in favor of the pursuit of happiness. There are some basic concepts, including meditation, compassion, and wisdom, which are intrinsic to the faith. One lesson I have learned is that there is much to get out of the world as long as you truly appreciate everything there is to appreciate. From the simple, like a sunset, to the complex, like falling in love. And when time is up, the rollercoaster ride is over, but, hey, it sure was fun while it lasted.

My only problem is that true Buddhists believe in reincarnation, and I have a hard time with that.

But just remember that if you've experienced even one moment in your life where everything is wonderful and you wouldn't rather be anywhere else in the world then you know what Christians are talking about when they mention heaven. The only difference is, you know you can achieve heavenly experiences any day of your life.

Halx

how about life without a belief system at all? Just do the right thing without having to think about how it enriches your spirit.

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tiberry

You and I are definately on the same wavelength - except that I believe that you, and I, and everyone else are just as much "God" as the next. I don't believe in God as a separate, all knowing, all powerful, all judging being - to me that's just ludicrous and creates more unanswerable questions than answers. But enough of that (for now).

Would you agree with me that your "hurt" and "help" can be reduced to simply "fear" and "love" respectively?

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:::OshnSoul:::

There's many things I couldn't understand or make sense of growing up as a Christian. I pulled aside, studying all aspects of religions and philosophy, just to understand myself more and why I felt confused about the whole God/afterlife/soul/heaven/hell thing. After some years of sooul searching, I found my truth. My definition for these things go much deeper than religion or theories or belief- not that I am claiming to be holy or right, but it's something I just know, feel, and I live to it daily- it has no words, really.
But I can say is that our lives are all connected, they are eternal, and when we pass, our souls shed the phsyical form and move on. There's more out there than meets the eye.

Mantus

hurt/help - fear/love, I just don’t see them as parallel.

Hurt/help indicate the impact one has on other people. It is the final product of our interaction with them.

Fear/love indicates the way we perceive people and can influence the impact we have on them. Yet fear isn’t the only driving force that can lead us to hurt others. Nor does love necessarily result in help. Our perception of other people is more complicated then a mix of fear and love.

pinkie

So, you're a Secular Humanist.

Halx

I'm a human being. I'm me. That's all you need to know about me. Thanks.

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denton

Reality is harsh, lying to one's self doesn't change it.
I spoke with the Mormon's once and they were trying to save me from a fiery afterlife. I tried to explain that I just can't force myself to believe what sounds like a lie to me. I gave them an honest listen, even allowed them into my house. All of it just sounds like too much of a fairy tale for me to buy it. The older I get, the more preposterous it sounds.

I'm not ready to agree with the 'no afterlife' part of your post, but this part really caught my attention because it is something I strongly agree with:

pinkie

It's also this part of his post that makes me think somewhere inside of him, he really does believe in God.

Mantus

pinkie,

That statement contradict Halx’s claim of being a “total atheist”. Yet I don’t really see how it show that he actually believes in god. Is stating that one believe that something is possible the same as stating that something exists?

pinkie

Exactly.

In stating this, you are questioning the possibility, in questioning the possibility, you are not an atheist, you're agnostic.

Halx

pinkie, I got news for you. People can't be perfectly categorized and you can't read their minds over the internet. Stick with what you know about people and quit trying to guess what fills in the blanks. I included that bit about God to appeal to those of you who DO believe... kinda like what that new Arabian Spider-Man costume is all about. It's called throwin' 'em a bone.

You're getting on my nerves. If you're dying to know more about me, why don't you start a conversation with me, instead of this backhanded shit you're pulling now? Stay on the topic of discussion within the thread.

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Master_Shake

I remember a part from a George Carlin skit from the early '90s. The Big electron. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is, and so are we for a little while.

I remember hearing this and being immensely comforted by it. I like living by the premise that nothing I do really matters. Certainly by the code of most moral systems I have not been a "good" person. I am selfish, uncaring, vindictive, and sometimes downright evil.* Most moral institutions claim that I will be judged by someone or something eventually, and this would have filled me with an enourmous sense of guilt. I see no value in a feeling of guilt. It would only prevent me from enjoying even the small amount of happiness I have managed to obtain.

Please don't misunderstand; I don't use the absence of judgement to prevent me from doing bad things. I would do bad things anyway, I just don't feel guilt for doing them.

*I am careful not to break the law of the government. Although I have no respect for the law of god, I have immense respect for the law of the government, or as I like to call it, "The arbitrary law of the biggest mafia with the biggest collection of guns, ever." I recognize that if I break the law of the mafia, I will be put in a very uncormfortable position, so I follow its rules when I must.

pinkie

I misunderstood your comment of, "If there is a God." You're capitalization, and use of the word gave me the impression that you may be leaning more towards agnostic, but perhaps in some state of questioning. People do that all the time, and I'm certainly not trying to read your mind, I was just interpreting what I read.

Quote:

Stick with what you know about people and quit trying to guess what fills in the blanks.

I know that people who say they are atheists have become believers, I apologize if you took offence to my comments.

Quote:

You're getting on my nerves. If you're dying to know more about me, why don't you start a conversation with me, instead of this backhanded shit you're pulling now? Stay on the topic of discussion within the thread.

I understand the topic of the thread is you stating your ani-belief in God, and any afterlife. That being said, I have to say that I thought about what I said to Mantus, in my original post, the first time I read this thread, but didn't comment. I only said what I did because Mantus used the quote that I noticed as well, so I decided to state what I saw in it also. It wasn't meant as a backhanded ploy, and I’m not dying to know anything about you in particular, I just made an innocent comment in regard to something that you stated. I apologize if you got the wrong impression from my post

mcovey

I am a devout Christian and always have been.

I was raised in a Christian house and believe that when I die I will in fact go to heaven and be with God. Pretty much your standard conservative baptist boy here.

My religion has defined my morality as well, I don't do drugs, I don't swear, I don't look at porn, and I have everything to look forward to when I die.

Mantus

mcovey,

Just make sure you are living your life they way you are because you believe it to be right in your hear and not becuase you will get a reward in the end.

mcovey

Mantus, I am not looking for a reward, just to serve God, and follow the moral path he has set for me.

There are many christians who are looking for a reward, and many more who expect that they can do whatever they want because God will forgive them if they apologize, but really you do have to believe in your heart that the way you live is right.

ManWithAPlan

Fear me forever and i am immortal. ;-)

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pinkie

It's not about fear. It's about love, and the hunger and thirst for righteousness.

SinisterMotives

Doesn't the ability to distinguish between right and wrong imply some sort of belief system? Or, stated another way, are actions intrinsically right or wrong, or are they right or wrong because humans ascribe moral qualities to them?

braindamage351

I'm an atheist as well, and while I hate it when people lie to themselves, religion is probably a much happier belief. If there is no afterlife, our universe will end permanently. It's a truly terrible thing.

SinisterMotives

In my experience, that's an unusual thing for an atheist to say. Most of the atheists I know put a lot of energy into denouncing religion and trying to talk people out of their beliefs. It's almost like a sort of reverse evangelism in a way - as if atheism itself was another religion competing with Christianity. I'd think that someone who doesn't believe in God or whatever wouldn't have any interest in religion period.

Halx

As a human with emotions, you're able to discern between 'hurt' and 'help' .. no belief system is needed - it's all ready in us to know what is good and bad.

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Dawson70

If I may.....
My wife and I had been searching for the "true" religion for years. We always felt guilty for not contribuiting to the " all powerful" force" theory. Honestly, we have found the majority of our beliefs are closer to the Wiccan faith, if any.
As I get older, I get wiser. I have to concur with Halx's statement concerning the life we live, does not spin around on what we are try to achieve in the "afterlife". It does not determine what kind of people we are.
Personally, I believe we are no more than a packaged bundle of energy. When we die, that energy disipates into the universe.
It is not a popular theory in my Roman Cathoilc family upbringing, but none the less, it is what I have concluded.
Maybe, I lost the subject point here........

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