linkinp800

I mean come on how do we know if the bible is some how a historical fiction book all of the religious teaching is based on that book what I believe is the god or whatever you want to call is a reason to explain unnatural occurring things like for instance some ancient tribe would believe if they got a drought they would think that the some water god was angry at them


get what I mean

tiberry

Linkin - Maybe you should start off by giving us your definition of "god". The word 'god' can mean a lot of different things to different people. I could answer you - "Sure! There is a god! His name is Thor, he carrys a big hammer and makes thunder and stuff!", but I don't think that's what you meant.

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thespian86

Ditto on the definition of God... which religion do you mean?

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linkinp800

i meant all well the christion or any other other relgions gods whatever

linkinp800

well mainly christain but is it a good point ? for the record i m only 18 heh

tropicdiver

I received an interesting e-mail a few years back about God. It was a faked AP Bulletin stating God had made a press conference. It was incredibly interesting reading and I have saved it for some near 4 years, now. It doesn't answer your question about God, but it makes one think "What if". I'll copy it to the next post after this one and if anyone finds it offensive, please let me know and I'll delete it.

__________________
Bob
Life is short. Break some rules.

tropicdiver

NEW YORK—Responding to recent events on Earth, God, the omniscient creator-deity worshipped by billions of followers of various faiths for more than 6,000 years, angrily clarified His longtime stance against humans killing each other Monday.

"Look, I don't know, maybe I haven't made myself completely clear, so for the record, here it is again," said the Lord, His divine face betraying visible emotion during a press conference near the site of the fallen Twin Towers. "Somehow, people keep coming up with the idea that I want them to kill their neighbor. Well, I don't. And to be honest, I'm really getting sick and tired of it. Get it straight. Not only do I not want anybody to kill anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple terms that anybody ought to be able to understand."

Worshipped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike, God said His name has been invoked countless times over the centuries as a reason to kill in what He called "an unending cycle of violence."

"I don't care how holy somebody claims to be," God said. "If a person tells you it's My will that they kill someone, they're wrong. Got it? I don't care what religion you are, or who you think your enemy is, here it is one more time: No killing, in My name or anyone else's, ever again."

The press conference came as a surprise to humankind, as God rarely intervenes in earthly affairs. As a matter of longstanding policy, He has traditionally left the task of interpreting His message and divine will to clerics, rabbis, priests, imams, and Biblical scholars. Theologians and laymen alike have been given the task of pondering His ineffable mysteries, deciding for themselves what to do as a matter of faith. His decision to manifest on the material plane was motivated by the deep sense of shock, outrage, and sorrow He felt over the Sept. 11 violence carried out in His name, and over its dire potential ramifications around the globe.

"I tried to put it in the simplest possible terms for you people, so you'd get it straight, because I thought it was pretty important," said God, called Yahweh and Allah respectively in the Judaic and Muslim traditions. "I guess I figured I'd left no real room for confusion after putting it in a four-word sentence with one-syllable words, on the tablets I gave to Moses. How much more clear can I get?"

"But somehow, it all gets twisted around and, next thing you know, somebody's spouting off some nonsense about, 'God says I have to kill this guy, God wants me to kill that guy, it's God's will,'" God continued. "It's not God's will, all right? News flash: 'God's will' equals 'Don't murder people.'"

Worse yet, many of the worst violators claim that their actions are justified by passages in the Bible, Torah, and Qur'an.

"To be honest, there's some contradictory stuff in there, okay?" God said. "So I can see how it could be pretty misleading. I admit it—My bad. I did My best to inspire them, but a lot of imperfect human agents have misinterpreted My message over the millennia. Frankly, much of the material that got in there is dogmatic, doctrinal bullshit. I turn My head for a second and, suddenly, all this stuff about homosexuality gets into Leviticus, and everybody thinks it's God's will to kill gays. It absolutely drives Me up the wall."

God praised the overwhelming majority of His Muslim followers as "wonderful, pious people," calling the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks rare exceptions.

"This whole medieval concept of the jihad, or holy war, had all but vanished from the Muslim world in, like, the 10th century, and with good reason," God said. "There's no such thing as a holy war, only unholy ones. The vast majority of Muslims in this world reject the murderous actions of these radical extremists, just like the vast majority of Christians in America are pissed off over those two bigots on The 700 Club."

Continued God, "Read the book: 'Allah is kind, Allah is beautiful, Allah is merciful.' It goes on and on that way, page after page. But, no, some assholes have to come along and revive this stupid holy-war crap just to further their own hateful agenda. So now, everybody thinks Muslims are all murderous barbarians. Thanks, Taliban: 1,000 years of pan-Islamic cultural progress down the drain."

God stressed that His remarks were not directed exclusively at Islamic extremists, but rather at anyone whose ideological zealotry overrides his or her ability to comprehend the core message of all world religions.

"I don't care what faith you are, everybody's been making this same mistake since the dawn of time," God said. "The Muslims massacre the Hindus, the Hindus massacre the Muslims. The Buddhists, everybody massacres the Buddhists. The Jews, don't even get me started on the hardline, right-wing, Meir Kahane-loving Israeli nationalists, man. And the Christians? You people believe in a Messiah who says, 'Turn the other cheek,' but you've been killing everybody you can get your hands on since the Crusades."

Growing increasingly wrathful, God continued: "Can't you people see? What are you, morons? There are a ton of different religious traditions out there, and different cultures worship Me in different ways. But the basic message is always the same: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Shintoism... every religious belief system under the sun, they all say you're supposed to love your neighbors, folks! It's not that hard a concept to grasp."

"Why would you think I'd want anything else? Humans don't need religion or God as an excuse to kill each other—you've been doing that without any help from Me since you were freaking apes!" God said. "The whole point of believing in God is to have a higher standard of behavior. How obvious can you get?"

"I'm talking to all of you, here!" continued God, His voice rising to a shout. "Do you hear Me? I don't want you to kill anybody. I'm against it, across the board. How many times do I have to say it? Don't kill each other anymore—ever! I'm fucking serious!"

Upon completing His outburst, God fell silent, standing quietly at the podium for several moments. Then, witnesses reported, God's shoulders began to shake, and He wept.

__________________
Bob
Life is short. Break some rules.

:::OshnSoul:::

I grew up in a Christian environment. Yet the whole time I felt something beyond the aspect of worshiping a "God". There was more to it. So I read, researched, took philosophy- and it expanded my ideas- but there was still more. One day it all came to me.........especially after choosing to read some metaphysical/spirituality books.....I realized in my own mind what I know deep down was finally surfacing.........

A lot of people think of God as an actual being- and they draw the conclusion that God has form- mainly one form- but that they don't know what form. They never see God- and from the bible speaking of God in Heaven- looking up and raising your hands to God they believe that God is external. And that God is all-powerful, almighty, omnipotent, and God judges those who sin.
Some idea of God exists in every religion and all religions link to the same thing- a source of being.......and of seeking truth and spirituality and goodness. Therefore all religions have their truth and that truth is resonant in all of them.

But here's another view. God is not a being- Ever heard "God is a verb."? God IS BEing. God is the Source of Being- of BEing anything and everything. God does not have a form, but can and does take shape. How? Motion. How does it go into motion? Thought. How are thoughts created? Energy. Name one thing that does not contain energy. Name one thing you cannot do with energy.
God is a source of being that exists within and all around us. God is simply known as energy and that we can use and manipulate this energy in every given moment. Even subconsiously- we don't even think about it most of the time.

ARTelevision

The word "god" is one of those words that's been batted around so much and has about as many meanings as there are people that I consider it useless.

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tecoyah

Religion, in my opinion, is the failure of humanity to understand what "God" really is. One would think that a true understanding of the meaning of God , which I do not have, would remove any need to require the support, or approval of others.
Should the time come that I gain this understanding, I doubt I will have the inclination to convert anyone to my way of understanding it.

To me, right now, god is.

That which is.
That which I would like to become.
That level of understanding I will never achieve, in this life.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

noahfor

If God is something that isn't just God then why is there a need to call it God.

linkinp800

yea what he said

SecretMethod70

tropicdiver, that's a satire article from The Onion's first issue after Sept. 11, 2001 - one of my favorite issues in fact

This is very similar the line of thought Catholicism has been slowly moving towards since the early 1900's with the priest and scientist Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (who was originally not allowed to publish his writings by the Church), and now with the more modern theologians as well. There are many people I know and know of who would not posit that God is necessarily something external, or even some THING at all.

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:::OshnSoul:::

^^^ right, I caught something on that at one point- I've also read that scientists have not been able to deny that theory for quite a while now.
I'm not saying that those things are what convinced me- what convinced me is the deep contemplation about it. I realized that everything is manipulated or even compact energy. I find it amazing.

You may still think of God as a 'being'. When you hear that word, you may think "big man up in heaven" or soemthing to that extent- whatever you may have been taught or gather from others. God- like all the other names of The Creator- mean all the same thing...but with those different words may come different meanings. God is a relative word- a humane way to say the "Creator" or "Source". Humans gave The Creator/Source a special name. And as religions developed in a divided culture and society, all of the religions came up with a name for there Creator/Source. It's like how the mythological gods and goddesses all had their own name. Zeus, Plato, Venus......I think of God as the same way. I usually wish to use Creator or Source, because it doesn't confuse like 'God' does. We can call it whatever we wish- it's a matter of knowing and feeling what it truly is.

anti fishstick

i always like to say that i don't believe in "God" personified.

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noahfor

God is an explanation for how the universe and people came to exist, or how existance was created. An/Some all powerful dude/s created it, and they/he/she is/are known as God/s. By just going around and calling some vague intangible things God, it seems to me, people are actually taking a step back. People who do this are in no way explaining anything. If a person says he believes God is the source of all being, he isn't actually believing anything. All he is doing is calling the source of all being God, which serves no purpose other than renaming the source of all being.

My friend says to me last night: "I don't believe in God in the traditional sense. I believe in a greater good that unites us all."

I mean what is that supposed to mean. Let's say we all have an interest in doing the right thing. That would be a common good, that "unites" us all. Tell me where God fits into that. It's just him pretending he's is spiritual, and what he said might actually sound really deep and spiritual to some 13 year old he is trying to get with.

SecretMethod70

It's more like recognizing God as an energy flowing throughout consciousness and relationships. A bit more of a literal sense of the phrase "God is Love" if you will. Ultimately, this doesn't exclude the possibility of God being an "other" as well - it's more like a change towards a focus more appropriate for the current world situation.

Frankly though, it's not something that can be adequately described/explained in one post, or even a series of posts. Not to mention that I'm only beginning to explore this line of thought and I say that after having read 3 books pertaining to it in the past couple months as well as an entire class focusing on it.

The focus of "this world vs that world" is not something that has always been present in religion or Christianity for that matter. Likewise, the focus on the seperation between spirit and matter that has persisted in western religion over the past 1500 years has not always existed and, as far as I see it, will not continue to exist for much longer relatively speaking.

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"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

noahfor

When you saying God is an evergy flowing through consciousness and relationships. What exactly are you doing by calling it God? Are you saying there is more to it than just an energy, are you saying that that energy is what created the universe, or are you merely giving it the name God?

tiberry

I knew you'd be all over this :::OshnSoul::: - and for my opinion, you're right on the mark. The idea that "God" is literally "Someone" other than "Everyone" is slowly loosing its charm, and more and more individuals and apparently more religions are slowly moving to this way of thinking. Right or wrong (if there are such things) it seems so much more plausible or believable using your view.

Ironically, this is something that simply cannot be taught to someone or something that you can convince someone of. By its nature, they have to adopt this idea as their truth for it to be acceptable. Not unlike the idea of "faith" prominent in most religions.

Frankly, I think that's what was implied by "faith" - that is NOT "Let me tell you an incredibly unbelievable story, tell you that in order to avoid "hellfire" you must believe, although I know its unbelieveable...moreso "You must find your own inner truths about God.


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tecoyah

God....is only a word. A noun with no accepted definition. Some of us are attempting personal definition of the term, as that is all anyone can do.

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cartmen34

My opinion is slightly harsher than some because of my religion filled background. (no longer religous)

but first my anwser to what God is, as some of you have asked for clarification:
God is the person responsible for everything we know to exist. The starts, planets, universe, earth, water, plants, animals. the food on your table and the air you breathe. He made it all, then he made us so that we could enjoy it. (aka, we're his pet ant farm, only on a bigger scale.)

Now my answer to the original question:
God does not exist. The bible is a fictional tale written by men trying to answer the question "Why are we here?"
Religion and religous viewpoints are for people looking for a simple answer to the questions on how we got here, why we exist, and what happens after death. Religion is the easiest way to try and answer the questions that are impossible to answer correctly and accurately.

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noahfor

Ok. If God is only a word with no accepted definition then what is the point of giving it a definition. There are plenty of sounds with no meaning, why not give those definitions. Why work at giving a random word a definition? Why not just give it a simple definition? Obviously there is more to it than just giving a word a definiton. The word God must already have some meaning to you otherwise you wouldn't be looking to complete it's meaning.

Jynx

now i don't mean to be derailing the discussion here, but i've noticed very little actual opinion from mr. linkinp(ark?) - simply an attempt to stir up something. so, i pose a challenge: linkinp, please sir let us know: what do you believe?

that i may be fair, my answer would be this: to equate god with the god in the christian bible would be a heinous mistake, as would be equating god with the quaran god or the hindu god or any other specific religion's god. the concept of 'god' is the personification of good, both in behavior and specific actions.

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linkinp800

I said what I believe I m just seeing what people think and if you want more this might be reading or seeing to much sci. Fiction but I believe Jesus is a time traveler who knows a lot more then we do technology wise and all of it was based on oral tradition right?

For making the virgin Mary conceive, they could, so called angels, have used artificial semi nation correct me if I m wrong but I believe that is it

noahfor

That's something I might be able to wrap my believing around.

SecretMethod70

It should be said that there are Christian denominations that officially believe, and movements within other denominations towards believing, that Mary was not necessarily literally a virgin. I can honestly tell you that I'm not sure what I personally believe regarding this, but I can also tell you that, having been exposed to the explanation of this belief, it is plausible and the only way it really conflicts with Christian religion IMO is that it requires looking at it from a different perspective.

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"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

tropicdiver

Thanks for letting me know. Seems to be appropriate it came from The Onion.

__________________
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Life is short. Break some rules.

tecoyah

Religion, in my opinion, is the failure of humanity to understand what "God" really is. One would think that a true understanding of the meaning of God , which I do not have, would remove any need to require the support, or approval of others.
Should the time come that I gain this understanding, I doubt I will have the inclination to convert anyone to my way of understanding it.

To me, right now, god is.

That which is.
That which I would like to become.
That level of understanding I will never achieve, in this life


The above is my previous post in this thread.....pretty much answers the bulk of your questions. However, you may have misunderstood what I meant by "God is only a word". I was being literal. As in the actual use of letters to form a word, like gizmo. If you really want a simple definition.....here you go:


God- The term used to name a creator entity, or that which is Omnipotent.

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wilbjammin

I consider the existence or non-existence of God to be irrelevant.

What is relevant, however, is how people get so wrapped up in their beliefs in this matter that it dominates their existence.

God has become a reality insomuch as people use their beliefs in God to shape the world they live in.

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Innominate.

SecretMethod70

I would disagree with this on the most fundamental level. While, it seems, we would agree on the "essence" of God, I think that God is found in the relationships between living things, and especially the meaningful relationships between human beings. Going by the belief that God - whatever it's taken to mean - is better than what we are now, I can't see how God can be seen as that which makes us not need others. That's like saying a single person who is in a state of contentment while being single is a superior person to someone who has a deep connection with another and is not as fundamentally happy without that other person. Moreover, it goes further to imply that the person who is happy while isolated is superior to the person who needs human contact.

Now, I'm not in the business of saying one thing is superior over another, but what I do know is that human relationships are, at very least, neutral, and IMO fundamentally a good thing.

If you look at science fiction, advanced races are frequently shown to be ones that seemingly have a unified consciousness and a deep concern for the well being of one another and the society as a whole. I'd venture to say this is an innate understanding within us, that the "higher level" of being we seek to attain is one which relies on our relationships with others and has deeper, more profound relationships to one another than anything we feel now.

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"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

linkinp800

i soley believe what he said

SecretMethod70

Our conclusions may not be the same regarding it - I'm not sure - but I generally agree with you wilbjammin. The specific question of "is there a God" is far less important than the question of what you do to better yourself and humanity. The current state of affairs is an unfortunate holdover from an antiquated belief system set forth by Augustine in which the "spiritual" lied in some other realm. That kind of detachment from this world, to the point where this world is irrelevent in your betterment, is unhealthy and does not contribute to the betterment of self.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

tecoyah

Fundamentally....that was what I intended to express. By stating my doubts of needing the support , or approval of others, I meant a community(congregation), not an individual (Personal relationship). As for the Goodness of human relationships, I agree fully.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Scipio

I found this list with a bunch of arguments for the existence of God (though they aren't exactly given a fair treatment!), but I thought it might be good for a laugh or two.

http://facts4god.faithweb.com/thelist.html

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prosequence

To answer the original question... Yes, there is a God, it's nice to see your interested.

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linkinp800

after all that from the 32 post i got um i say no

noahfor

What is the point of calling energy God? Can't it just be energy?

God as a person is a solid explanation for how and why the universe and people exist. Saying that God is just the source of being doesn't really explain anything. Maybe the universe just is. Maybe everything that can exist does exist, and we are just in this one universe. I will never understand the nature of existance, so I don't know, but saying that God is some source of being just confuses the question. Also, I don't understand that chain you made. How does the source of being take form through motion? I mean why is something in motion the source of being taking a form? How do thoughts put things into motion? How does energy create thoughts?

Doing everything takes energy, that is the nature of doing. One can't build anything without matter. That doesn't mean matter is magic or God, or the saint of building, it's just the nature of building.

SecretMethod70

Not saying God is energy, but more like God is A energy. It's hard to explain, especially for myself as someone who is still fleshing it out. And this doesn't exclude the possibility of God being "something else" too in another realm, but it's primarily a change in focus, recognizing that this world contains the divine flowing through it and that it's not just something else out there with this world being irrelevant.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

ARTelevision

Yeah. It really seems to me that using the word "god" for this sort of thing is a problem.

The use of "divine" has the same problematic effect. If just about everyone has a different idea of this sort of thing - what can possibly be useful about these words?

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SecretMethod70

Actually, I agree. Truth is, just as we have all had experiences where, when we try to describe it to someone else, words escape us and all we can say is "you had to be there," the experience of what many refer to as God and the divine is like this. Language is inadequate in describing it in the first place, and the words which we have grown accustomed to using, such as God and divine, have a certain connotation and stigma different from what we are coming to experience God and the divine to be.

In other words, sometimes the greatest barrier to experiencing God to many people is the word "God" itself. It's something that, truthfully, language cannot project and the best way to share it with someone else is to be their experience of it in this life - through deep, profound, and caring relationships - and I don't just mean in the significant other sense. Hence the teaching that people will know you by the life you live, not by the words you say.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling