Occam's Razor - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

noahfor · 04-30-2004, 04:47 AM

The other thread that mentions this made me curious. What exactly is occam's razor? Is it a truth? I've seen Contact, but you know.

Peetster · 04-30-2004, 04:56 AM

The simplest explanation is probably the most correct.

shakran · 04-30-2004, 05:28 AM

ya know. . i've just been waiting for someone to say "well then go ahead and give us the simplest explanation of it then!"

Pacifier · 04-30-2004, 06:07 AM

Quote:

The term is named after the 14th century philosopher and theologian William of Occam. It might strike some as strange that a scientific principle might have come from a theologian, but good scientists do not practice appeals to authority or ad hominem attacks. If an idea makes sense, it doesn't matter who it came from, and the universal acceptance of Occam's Razor is a perfect example of that philosophy.

In any case, he argued that we should never "multiply entities unnecessarily". In other words, cut out extraneous terms from an equation. He used that principle (which is really just an argument against redundancy) to show that it was impossible to deduce God's existence through reason alone, so one would have to take it purely on faith. The irony is that a theologian realized that there was no logical basis for God's existence more than 600 years ago but modern fundamentalists still can't figure it out, and actually use his name to "prove" the exact opposite of what he himself argued!

For those who cannot appreciate the simplicity of Occam's Razor in its original form, Isaac Newton restated it thusly: "We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances." In plain English, when faced with two scientific theories which make the same predictions, choose the simpler theory. Or, as Stephen Hawking put it: "Cut out all the features of the theory which cannot be observed." (taken from A Brief History of Time).

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Creatio...oscience.shtml

noahfor · 04-30-2004, 12:50 PM

Probably the most correct? Probably is a pretty loose term. Are we talking 51% or 99.9% probability. What does it apply to? Physical things, or all things, including consciousness(if you believe that it is more than physical, the roots at least).

shakran · 04-30-2004, 01:36 PM

you're digging a bit too deeply into this noahfor. Peetster's explanation can be taken at face value.

let's take an apple falling out of a tree as an example.

It's POSSIBLE that the apple fell because a squirrel picked up a laser cutter with its teeth, ran outside, up the tree, and bit down on the cutter. This pressed the button, and the laser sliced through the stem, causing the apple to fall.

It's also POSSIBLE that the apple's stem simply broke off and the apple fell - as apples tend to do when they're ripe.

Occam's razor tells us the second explanation - the simpler one - is most likely true.

noahfor · 04-30-2004, 02:16 PM

Ok, I get it. Thanks. It seemed like people were coming to conclusions about things being certain using occam's razor. That is why I was confused.

idiono · 04-30-2004, 10:27 PM

This came up in conversation the other day and it had me wondering about it too, so thanks for the explanations.

Yakk · 05-01-2004, 09:30 AM

Think of it as cutting off all the useless fuzz on a theory, belief or situation.

tiberry · 05-02-2004, 12:46 AM

The simplest explanation:

You are God.

JimmyTheHutt · 05-06-2004, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tiberry
The simplest explanation:

You are God.

THOU art God.

Which is an interesting enough concept completely removed from the discussion of Occam's Razor. Probably deserves its own thread though.

Veritas en Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

04-30-2004, 04:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
noahfor Addict	Occam's Razor The other thread that mentions this made me curious. What exactly is occam's razor? Is it a truth? I've seen Contact, but you know.

04-30-2004, 10:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
idiono Upright Location: Colorado, USA	This came up in conversation the other day and it had me wondering about it too, so thanks for the explanations. __________________ werd.

05-01-2004, 09:30 AM	#9 (permalink)
Yakk Wehret Den Anfängen! Location: Ontario, Canada	Think of it as cutting off all the useless fuzz on a theory, belief or situation. __________________ Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

05-02-2004, 12:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
tiberry Insane Location: Location, Location!	The simplest explanation: You are God. __________________ My life's work is to bridge the gap between that which is perceived by the mind and that which is quantifiable by words and numbers.

04-30-2004, 04:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
Peetster Right Now Location: Home	The simplest explanation is probably the most correct.

04-30-2004, 05:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	ya know. . i've just been waiting for someone to say "well then go ahead and give us the simplest explanation of it then!"

04-30-2004, 12:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
noahfor Addict	Probably the most correct? Probably is a pretty loose term. Are we talking 51% or 99.9% probability. What does it apply to? Physical things, or all things, including consciousness(if you believe that it is more than physical, the roots at least).

04-30-2004, 01:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	you're digging a bit too deeply into this noahfor. Peetster's explanation can be taken at face value. let's take an apple falling out of a tree as an example. It's POSSIBLE that the apple fell because a squirrel picked up a laser cutter with its teeth, ran outside, up the tree, and bit down on the cutter. This pressed the button, and the laser sliced through the stem, causing the apple to fall. It's also POSSIBLE that the apple's stem simply broke off and the apple fell - as apples tend to do when they're ripe. Occam's razor tells us the second explanation - the simpler one - is most likely true.

04-30-2004, 02:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
noahfor Addict	Ok, I get it. Thanks. It seemed like people were coming to conclusions about things being certain using occam's razor. That is why I was confused.