iamnormal

If humans never did looked up would God have created the heavens?

tecoyah

God created the heavens? Guess I never looked up quite that high.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

seretogis

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

Yakk

Damn you Douglas Adams!

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

John Henry

I don't think any of us really understand what you're asking here. Could you possibly elucidate?

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filtherton

A more important question. If humans had never looked down, would it have mattered that we accidentally ran off the side of a cliff trying to kill that damn roadrunner?

Redjake

I'm lost. But the square root of 144 is 12! At least I answered something.

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User Name

Actually, 144 has two square roots, 12 and -12.

:::OshnSoul:::

Not only do I look up, but all around and within me. Heaven is on earth and everywhere that exists. It's all in perception.

iamnormal

Let me see.
Hum.
If humans never existed would there be a God(s)?

Ustwo

Your question is basically of the 'if a tree falls in the woods' variety.

But it could also be answered based on a pan vrs monotheistic viewpoint.

Monotheistic religions always have humans as the central reason for creation, so without humans there would be no god.

In pantheistic religions humans are often more of an oversight and not important. Many of the 'gods' are resentful of humans, and are happy to be gods of the lake, forest, rocks, moss, etc with or without humans. Hence to a pantheistic viewpoint, you can have gods without people.

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tecoyah

Lets see if we can figure out what is actually bieng asked here?

Heavens?
Do you mean the perverbial paradise of biblical note, or the observable night sky?

Looked up?
Do you mean "physically" lifting our heads and looking up, or do you mean pondering what it all means?

God?
Do you mean the creation entity of myth, or the combination of phenomenon needed for matter and energy(same thing) to induce a physical universe?

If you mean the first parts of each question, then the answer is likely no. As it would require humankind observing the heavens to make up such a wonderful story.

If you mean the latter parts of each question, then Yes. As the universe would exist whether we looked at it, or not.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

raeanna74

Sounds to me like the age old question. "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?"

Just because we percieve something does not give it actual existence. It's a bit Egocentric to believe that nothing is real unless we percieve it.

Now in relation to a supernatural being - that's a question of faith not of fact as in "does gravity exist". In most cultures you find a faith in a supernatural being of some kind. It's inherrent in humans to find something to center themselves. Most see themselves as flawed so find fault in putting faith in themselves. To place faith in a being that seems more perfect than we see ourselves is a natural desire.

Yes we would have placed faith in a god whether we had any perception of it or not.

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:::OshnSoul:::

There would be the essence of "God". Just as it was before "God" created Man, then "God" chose to create Man in order to know "God's Self" experientially.

iamnormal

Is it not humans who created God?

:::OshnSoul:::

Man created the ideas of a God- there being many different versions and interpretations.
God created Man. Man recreates God in every moment.

iamnormal

Is not the mind of Man that God resides?

Ustwo

This thread has become silly and its time to move on.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

:::OshnSoul:::

It's not getting silly, really, just different views and different questions, which may seem to be colliding, but these *silly* philosophical debates we learn more from than philosophical agreements. If we all agreed, there would be no philosophy forum.

iamnormal

Why is it silly?
Is it because I'm LD and lack good English?
Is it the questions I ask?

tecoyah

I suppose it is in the way you phrased the question. The question you asked is a bit confusing.
First it assumes that "God" indeed created the heavens, which is a very lively debate in many threads within this forum.
Second you ask, if it was this god entity which created the heavens, was it required that we humans look up in order for it to make such a creation.

I guess we just dont quite understand which direction you wish the answers to go in, as we could follow many different tangents with such open parameters.

Example: Reality Makers.

Did we humans create the heavens by looking up

Example: God Makers.

Did we make God by deciding we needed one

Example: Heaven

Is heaven Up, or inside

Any one of these are likely debates from your single question. Perhaps you could clarify what you are really asking.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

iamnormal

I don't understand the things I do when I do them alot of the times. So my questions may not be as good as they should.

Thinking about what I asked first. I wanted people to think.
There is hidden meaning in it. I wanted to see how people respond.

"If humans never did looked up"
This will take some imagination. Think about what if we never looked up at the sky/heavens (sun, stars, plants, universe).
The earth is flat type of thing.

"would God have created the heavens"
Heavens? what is that?

Understand?

tecoyah

If your question is " If we lived in a 2D world, would there be a physical heaven?", then I commend you for an interesting question.

Accepting heaven as a given, I would answer, Yes.
Humans would simply have created heaven somewhere else.
Instead of "God is up in heaven", we would say" God is over there....to the left".

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

prosequence

God created the Earth and heavens all for a purpose. Regardless is man looked up down, sideways, or if a tree falls in the forest...
God created it all for purpose.

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And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

tecoyah

Never mind my above post....as this is obviously the real truth, and my attempt at unravelling your thread was misguided and uninformed.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

prosequence

No problem tecoyah, if you ever want to get rid of of post just go into edit and click the "delete post" button.

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And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...