Rainy

I dont have children but I can see where you guys are comming from. I think its sad that children feel the need to grow up so fast.

In this day and age where pedophiles are on the increase you would hope that parents would realise that thongs, bras and vest tops are clearly adult attire, and by making small girls appear more adult is only feeding this disease.

Unfortunatly unless governments make this sort of stuff illegal, it will never go away as department stores make too much money from exploiting childrens innocence. and as long as its out there in the shops irresponsible parents will buy it for their daughters and increase the risks thier child is exposed to.

Seer666

Well, I hope what I am about to say doesn't come off wrong, But..
Is more laws really what we want or need? I hope not. And not for something as stupid as thongs. Even if I do want to see the younger ones in them, asit just makes me feel like a dirty old man. Also, I don't think that pedophiles ARE on the increase. It's just that A: We are hearing about it more these days, through actual cases, and the media and church groups freaking out and saying everything is leading to pedophilea and voilence in our schools. People are behaving the same as they always have, for the most part. I'm damn near 30 now, and I still can't help but turn my head and stare at some 15 year old girl with a tight ass. Most men do. Watch them. Doesn't mean we are going to do anything about it other then masterbate over it later. While I do think that it is not really what you call right for kids that young to be showing off their asses, I also remember what I was up to at that age, and it was mostly going after chicks showing off their asses. This trend is nothing new. It's just new fashion. In the 80's it was pants so tight that they looked painted on, now it's thongs. Still amounts to people showing off what they have, in hopes of getting attention. Also, the idea of a person haveing to be 18 to be considered an adult is pretty damn new to the human race. Used to be they were married off at 12 and 13. We say it's to young now, but genetics keeps trying to tell us otherwise. There is that little part of our brains that knows that 13 year old is bleeding and ready to breed. That's just the way it is.

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Suave

I seriously question the logic behind statements made by the media and whomever else that says that "young children dressing more like adults will attract pedophiles". That's an oxymoronic statement. If pedophiles, by definition, are attracted to young children, then making the children look older will decrease the interest of pedophiles* in one's children.

*According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, pedophilia is characterized by either intense sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child (typically age 13 or younger). To be considered for this diagnosis, the individual must be at least 16 years old and at least 5 years older than the child. (source: http://allpsych.com/forums/students/...s/000000b9.htm )

Having preteen and teenage girls dress older (and wear makeup, which can add at least 5 years in my experience) will, however, attract not pedophiles, but "hebaphiles" (Hebaphilia refers to this same situation but when the individual is post-pubescent (typically 14-17 years of age).). While it may seem like I'm being bogged down in semantics, there is a HUGE difference between someone being attracted to a <12 year-old child, and a 14+ year old teenager.

And as far as the "young children dressing sexier" (but not necessarily looking older as a result) point of view, I postulate that a pedophile, being attracted to young children, will socially affiliate typical "young child" clothing with sexual desire. Therefore, while "John Q. Public" (cliche, but whatever) finds thongs and miniskirts attractive, a pedophile will likely find jumpsuits, Osh Kosh, and overalls attractive. It is flawed to believe that we can arbitrarily impose our own standards of what is sexually arousing upon a group of people who think completely differently than we do in terms of sex and sexual relationships.

I believe these are very important distinctions to make in this sort of discussion. They are especially important as they can provide more clarity as to what points are actually being argued, and what the discussion is truly about.

©2004

Rainy

Good points Suave, clearly you have more knowledge and insight into the subject of child sexual predetors than myself. I tend to agree with most of what you say as you make valid points.

That being said, if an adult ie 18+ has sex with a minor (someone under the age of sexual consent ie 16) they can be convicted of statutory rape and classified as a pedophile and placed on the child sex offenders register. This i think is where my ignorance lies.

In addition I cant imagine any decent parent would want what you refer to as a 'hebaphile' preying on thier child which, even though i clearly had the terminology and a bit of psychology wrong re: pedophiles, i think argues the case of allowing children to dress in clothing that is sexually attractive, ie thongs, will increase their chances of experiencing a sexual situation whether consentual or not, which is NOT a good thing.

Raleighbum

Music television and TV in general does he job.

Although I think that seeing sex on TV is much better than watching the news and violent movies. (another discussion)
But 12... still kind of young.
Still I'd rather let her wear thongs than to let her see taliban beheadings etc. bullshit from the TV.

Said well there:
That's IT !!!

fredcola

how long has this thread been going on. there is nothing wrong with kids and thongs as long as they dont have them on.

sammy776

i would let me 12 year old wear them. oh wait i though that we were talking about shoes. in that case no!!!!! only a freak would let a 12 year old wear them

cellophanedeity

When I was twelve, my best friend and I would talk about underwear all the time. We thought it was the coolest thing to have the prettiest pantsu we could find. Every day we'd show eachother the tops of our undies, and compare notes.

It was just for fun. No boys, no sex (though we were interested in this, but more as a theoretical than anything,) no flaunting our bums. We just thought it was a cool secret to have pretty panties.

At the time, we didn't want thongs. I don't know if we were even aware of thongs then. But if thongs were cool, then we would have wanted them, solely for personal satisfaction.

My parents and I have always had an excellent communication level. They talked to me about sex and dating early on, and told me I could always go to them if I needed to talk or if I was thinking of doing anything I wasn't sure of. Mum and I would go shopping and she'd help find some rainbow undies or something like that, because she knew that my appreciation for "sexy" underwear wasn't a desire to fuck. We weren't best friends though. If I misbehaved I was grounded, and there was a definite level of respect that's still in tact.

What we must consider is that at the age of twelve girls are hormonal like crazy. We get boobs, begin to bleed from very private places, and start noticing what the older girls are wearing. It just so happens that the older girls are wearing thong pantsu.

As long as you talk to your daughters about sex, then buying thongs shouldn't be a terrible thing. Not talking about IT is a big reason for the excitement of IT when you're younger. If you [parents] break the taboo, the thong just becomes a pretty piece of fabric.

Trust your daughters until they give you reason not to. They'll appreciate it.

analog

Sometimes parents are so uppity and irrational. They attack people who question their methods and throw around their number of kids much like a muscular person would flex before a fight.

I'm curious why this thread has existed for so long for the following reason:

Parents have only three conversational settings-

1. For swapping stories about their kids' accomplishments and talents,
2. For bitching and gossiping about what bad parents other parents are, and
3. For getting together to sit and do nothing but agree with one another and create a common enemy against those who disagree with them, simply so they can think they're correct because "other" parents think they are.

And don't you DARE bitch at me for what I've written above- if you think you can immediately, and without challenge, take superiority on this topic just because you're a parent, then I can take superiority over poking holes in your bullshit because i'm NOT one. This street runs both ways.

Make your own decisions, do what feels right for your family dynamic, the morals/ethics you are trying to instill and cultivate, and the overall life education you're trying to give your progeny. Because beyond all the myriad of bullshit and tall-talk i've read in this thread is the real problem-

Thongs or not, FEW have mentioned giving their children the proper life education to know what is or is not appropriate... and the overall attitudes of the young people (at least here in America) are becoming worse, and their ability to discern right from wrong, appropriate from inappropriate goes to show the growing trend of a lack of proper life education. How to get on with your "fellow man" (and woman), how to be a good person, how to really live a good life. Morals or no, anyone can understand being a good person at heart.

Tell a person to do something specific, and they'll learn to do what you say. Educate a person, and they'll be able to do things for themselves- after all, what happens when they suddenly decide they don't want you to tell them what to do anymore? Without the education, they'll do whatever they feel like.

maxhooters

sorry i have been away for awhile. but I just got back and I can't believe that this is still going. I will give an update then I hope we can put this to bed for ever. \

No she did not get a Thong, the wife changed her mind with out alot of pressure from me. She was mad but then she moved on. Thanks for everones input

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derektor

yeah, a little too young for that article of clothing. you should explain to her your reasons. what these... "thong" things stand for and hopefully she'll understand.

superiorrain

Well thats that cleared up then. 2 more years and this will be back on the table again, you'll see.

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lordpoopshank

2 more years....try like 6 months when she realizes all her friends at school are wearing them.

pattycakes

i rember around halloween some parents making a BIGGGGGGGGG fus about pimp and hoe costumes for like 5 year olds or so. Needless to say the website pulled the costume but still offered it on a request basis.

As PARENTS it should be "our job" to decide if this hoe costume is right for our daughter. I for one would say no, same as for the pimp... when they get older sure why not.

It is our job to draw the line. There is no reason that the government should limit what is made, if as parents you limit what is worn i is much better.


I feel this goes along with this topic, because it is our jobs to say when enough is enough and say no to the kids.... but then again what do i know?

im just some dumb 20yr old

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HAL3000

Last year, Abercrombe was selling thongs for preschool and grade school children!

I was appaulled. As a father of two daughters, I am saddened by the need to push girls into adulthood sooner and younger.

Fighting it can feel like running up the down escalator. I say, stick to your gut feeling on the issue, talk to your daughter about why you feel the way you do. Empower her to make her own choices and be a strong young woman. Who are they wearing the damn thongs for anyway? My wife says, anyway you look at it, thongs are butt floss (lol) - and no child, can convince her that they are more comfortable than regular underwear!

CrAzEd

I think 14-15 is around the right age. Right when they start growing and expanding. 12 is definitely too early

questone

if you say yes to thongs, it'll be g-strings before you know it.

ShaniFaye

I have to vent...I just found out my childs new step mother bought my child a thong for christmas....she's not even 12 1/2 yet

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la petite moi

WHY are thongs and g-strings considered so awful? If the girl wears jeans, who can tell she's wearing a thong/g-string? Why is it okay if adults wear them, but it's just awful if younger girls do? Frankly, I hated the full-bottom underpants my mother bought for me, and thongs and g-strings were SO much more comfortable when I finally bought myself a pair in Freshman year of high school. And trust me, I didn't suddenly start getting hit on or become all hot and bothered when I wore a thong.

The only time thongs and g-strings are bad is when mothers and fathers don't mandate the clothing the girls wear. If she wears a little thong with a mini-skirt at age 10, that's disgusting and inviting statutory rape. If she's more comfortable wearing a thong than full-bottom underneath actual clothing like jeans and long skirts, why not let her?

Why do thongs/g-strings = adulthood, suddenly? I mean, are we going to revert back to the old days when wearing anything less than bloomers and three petticoats meant you were inviting sexual partners? How about the days when cloth pads were the only thing you could use for your menstrual period, and if you used a tampon that meant you were seeking sexual pleasure (which was Satanic)?

How about teaching boys not to be sexually perverse? It seems many arguments on here are based on the fact that men and boys are flirting with/hitting on girls who wear thongs. So why not teach boys from the very start that making lewd comments is frowned upon instead of forcing girls to wear less comfortable "granny panties"?

Jesus, people are so uptight these days...

Lebell

GAHHH!

Did you read her the riot act??

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SQUIGGY

Kids should be allowed to grow up slower and be kids longer. I think a big part of the problem is advertisers using younger and younger looking models in seductive items/posses to sell their products. Manufactureres and advertisers are using the media to lower the standard of what is "acceptable" for how young people look and act in order to make more money by selling the kids ridiculous things like ...thongs.
Or maybe I m just being old fashioned.

kylie

ask her why she wants to buy it for the first place ? i dont think she can give you a good enough reason to make you let her buy it ?
and for your wife really talk to her about why she let your daughter buy it is it really not big of deal ? but it is cos she is only 12 what happen when 16 ot younger ?
say no to her , nowadays teens are asking for way too much out of what they should have

analog

I'm sure women appreciate that you just set them back about 50 years by saying what you wear invites advances and rape.

I'm actually kinda curious about that myself... like why would it matter? Not that I care, but devil's advocate here... does the shape of the underwear have anything to do with sexuality in a little kid? At an older age, when small underwear = big fun, that's one thing... is the heart of the matter here that some of you can't see past the sexuality used with them by the older crowd, and somehow think that the same sexuality will be instilled in the youngins? Again, just thinking out loud. Who's to say that lids even need to wear underwear? Lots of adults don't, what's the point? Once you're potty trained, what difference does it make? Now that's an exaggeration obviously, but if the kids wearing thongs aren't using them in a sexual context, then what difference does it make? For the 12 year olds seeing it on big sis or on TV or whatever, they're just emulating. Kids have done it FOREVER. If it wasn't thongs, it'd be playing dress-up with big sis' eyeliner and lipstick. Since this practice has been in place for a long time, i'm surprised people are shocked to see their kids emulating "older kids".

HUH??? While I agree that manners and proper behavior have been very lacking for the last several years, I hope you're kidding that your answer to the problem is "teach boys not to be perverse". Aside from being ludicrous and impossible to implement, that doesn't solve anything- boys being mannerly and such are not going to change the minds of the parents pining for the lost innocense of their children. Not to mention the fact that I can't believe you think the way a female dresses "invites" rape or molestation. That's quite frankly a horrible thing to say about sexual abuse.

la petite moi

I'm sorry, analog, that you feel that I'm regressing by 50 years. However, if little girls are dressing up as adults, men mistake them as adults. I think I read a story by a member here at the TFP that mistaked a 13 year old for an adult because of how she was dressed, and was making sexual advances at her. If they had actually had sex, that would be considered rape. If he had fondled her in any way, that would have been considered molestation. See where I was coming from?

spindles

The problem is you guys just don't know what thongs are:

http://www.souvenirsaustralia.com/category102_1.htm

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Sweetpea

i agree completely...



I see thongs as something very sexy.... and something that should be worn by say teenagers... like 14-15 would be the age i might let my little girl wear one (if i had a child)... I would not let a child under that age wear them, it's too suggestive.
Thongs are seen as sexual things, like a precursor to lingerie, by 99.9 percent of the people i know... if someone doesn't think they are more sexually suggestive than normal bikinni panties they they are not seeing how the mainstream perspective sees them.

as a side note: The thing about being a child.... is that YOU ARE A CHILD and you can be a child, you can be carefree and not worry about such things as how your ass looks in those panties or if you should wear makeup or if your hair is perfectly highlighted....
If there is no boundary between what children can wear/say/do between child/young adult/adult... then isn't that taking away their childhood??

my parents made me wait to get my ears pierced until i turned 13... and it was really cool when i did get them done. My parents made me wait until i was 15 to get sexy panties... my parents made me wait to wear heavy makeup until i was 16... and you know what, i'm glad they did...

Why rush our children into adulthood, why not let them be kids and enjoy being a kid... i think that wearing thongs at a young age is another small way of pushing adult values onto a child before they might be ready ...

that's just my opinion and anyone who is around kids, works with kids or has kids would probably agree with me.

Sweetpea

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Willravel

That's horrible, I'm so sorry. You should hire some guys (big, hairy, obnoxious) to objectify your childs step mother for a few weeks, just so she understands what thongs represent. I'd do it, but I'm not hairy. My sympathies.

aberkok

Hold your horses there, cowboy...I think you forgot the difference between statutory rape and rape:

statutory rape
n.
Sexual relations with a person who has not reached the statutory age of consent.

rape 1 Pronunciation (rp)
n.
1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.

La Petite was talking about statutory rape, which can be consensual.

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analog

Doesn't matter- and i'm well aware of the difference, thanks.

The point is, one of the major talking points is that wearing clothing should not automatically "invite" sexual advances- regardless of the age of the person wearing them. So basically what you two are supporting is the ideal that if a woman wears a low-cut blouse, she is doing so because she wants me to stare at her tits and drool over (figuratively) her cleavage, and is openly inviting any and all on-lookers to give her sexual advances. No. Bullshit.

la petite moi

Uhm, so you don't think that wearing tight pants doesn't accentuate the buttocks? Or that showing cleavage accentuates the breasts? Human nature is to be drawn to sexual parts. If you show them off, you're going to get attention. Plain and simple.

rlynnm

Thongs should come with a electro zapper thingie majig that can detect age (and are only unlockable by parents) so whenever a 12 yr old tries to buy/wear a thong without approval ....ZZZAAAPPP...

And they should have an electro zapper thingie majig on the thong so when the parents unlock it for their too young daughter...ZZZZAAAAPPP.....

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Furry

I suggest you demonstrate the mighty wedgie potential of thongs, especially vis-a-vis 12 year old boys in the playground who think they are a hoot. No kid wants a nuclear wedgie - thongs are unfortunately the perfect tool for them...

Clothes shouldn't invite sexual advances, but sometimes unfortunately they do. For the rest, I agree with Sweetpea.

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aberkok

I certainly wouldn't call it an "ideal." All we are saying is that sexy clothes can draw attention.

You are trying to twist our words to say: "sexy clothes will automatically draw attention and predatory sexual advances."

A girl oughta know that if she dresses sexy, she's likely to be looked at, but a woman can never be blamed, even if parading down the street naked, for any advances made toward her which exceed the realm of normal social conduct.

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rlynnm

Very, very nicely said.

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snowy

The fact is that thongs are a more sexualized form of underwear, and to deny this shows extreme naivete. Allowing children to wear thongs sexualizes them sooner, perhaps before they are ready. But then we have to realize that nature is sexualizing children much more quickly these days (with girls reaching menarche younger). So which is wrong? Denying that 12 year olds do have sexuality? Or encouraging it in what may be an unhealthy manner?

I don't think buying thongs for 12-year-olds is proper or right. It's teaching young girls the wrong things about sexuality, and encouraging them to perhaps engage in behaviors that they are not ready for. While children of all ages should be educated about sex and their own sexuality, there is such a thing as too much, too soon. Thongs seem to exist in this realm.

Furthermore, for a developing female system, thongs are an incredibly unhealthy form of underwear to wear. The movement of the thong encourages fecal bacteria to move into the vaginal area, increasing the risk of yeast infection and bacterial vaginosis. A young girl who has never been exposed to these problems would likely have a hard time identifying that anything was wrong with her or her system. Untreated, these problems could have complications, such as lesions (I speak from experience...not a thong wearer at 12, but wearing hot, sweaty leotards in ballet gave me my first yeasties at 11) and other problems. The material thongs are typically made of also does not allow the vaginal area to breathe well.

My verdict? Everyone should wear 100% cotton underwear, in whatever cut they like...but thongs should be off-limits to those under 16, and as long as my future daughter is under my roof, she can buy her own sexy underwear, thongs included.

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SpoilSport

I apologize for the length of this post.We have placed such a burden on these grossly underpaid people. Hypertasking has become a way of life for most teachers - children have so much more to face at an increasingly younger age. There are dress codes. The students are aware of them, as should be the parents. We should be setting the standard at home. Some parents seem incapable of doing this. Conversely, these rules send mixed messages. What is not acceptable to wear to school is the uniform of choice for certain activities (cheerleading, dance team, etc.?). I also take into account the students that are not allowed to wear make up/certain clothes and then do so after leaving the house. You do what you can. Some should try harder.

I agree and am appalled. Before becoming a parent, I never thought I would say this. Unfortunately, there is little we can do to control the media and those that implement trends. We can set examples and standards for our children though, and clarify expectations. Kind of off on a tangent, but it ties in.

When picking up my daughter from highschool on occasion, I am disgusted by the various states of undress. They looked as if they were dressed (to borrow a phrase) "to go clubbing in Vegas" rather than attend school. It made me sick. I don't know what was more disgusting - the way they dressed or the way that these kids are allowed to speak to each other in front of school staff. Teachers are expected to pick up WAY too much of the slack in the way of parenting skills. It's unfair not only to the teachers and staff, but to the children who are losing valuable time that should be spent learning to this bullshit.

Thank you for wording so eloquently what I meant to say.

Being a parent and a "friend" to your children is such a fine line to walk. I would choose being a parent over being a friend, hands down. I see it as being a sounding board more than a friend. I respect my children's opinions and ideals, but ultimately they must respect me as their parent. PERIOD.

In my house: 12 year old + thong = NO

This is my opinion as a former rebellious child and a parent.

chriswin8

I think this thread has taken on a life of its own.

However my opinnion is that it would depend on the reason they want them. The fallowing answers to the fallowing reasons.

Coolness = No (Everyone has them)
Boys = HELL NO, OVER MY DEAD BODY!!! And I go to store and buy a shotgun.
Peer pressure = No (Everyone has them)
Being ridaculed = maybe
Comfort/ireitation = Yes

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maxhooters

how much longer can the go on. i thought it died months ago. it is over, get on with it already

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fuffa

I think the problem is not in wearing thongs but i wonder if she wants to show to somebody, either is some friends or some boy....

xepherys

I dunno. analog, I kind of agree with the notion that you put out there, however, if I had a daughter, I would completely say no way in hell. Just like 12 y/o girls wearing mini-skirts. No, the act of wearing skimy clothing SHOULD NOT invite sexual advances specifically... it doesn't mean that it won't. Also, the main reason for WANTING such items is generally sexual or semi-sexual in nature. And therefore inappropriate for a child (sorry, teens are not adults, so they are children. Just the way it works).