prosequence

Do you think killing people is wrong to do, or are you OK with it?

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And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

RoboBlaster

I don't think any action is inherantly wrong. Though with killing, it would take an awful lot to justify it in my book and should be done as the absolute last resort.

KellyC

Depends on the reason behind killing really. And who got killed.
Personally I'm against killing. Many many reasons that I won't bore you with....

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Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

Lebell

What are the circumstances?

Because "killing" covers an awful lot of ground.

I don't think anyone but the most extreme pacifists are against all "killing".

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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djtestudo

Justified killing, like in warfare or self-defense?

Or "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die"?

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"Final thought: I just rented Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. Frankly, it was the worst sports movie I've ever seen."
--Peter Schmuck, The (Baltimore) Sun

Mephex

Yes. Killing is wrong. In any way shape or form. When can you justify it ? When someone else was killed ?

It's murder. Does that mean it won't happen ? No.

As long as there are people that need that kind of response to their actions, people will be killed. It's almost as if it's human nature. Or, maybe, just "nature".

wilbjammin

Society has laws that govern acceptable behavior, going against this will likely put you in a situation that many might call "wrong." Ultimately though, you have to decide for yourself what is right and wrong, even when it comes to killing. For me, there are very few circumstances when I can see killing being something acceptable for me to do.

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Innominate.

Lebell

An armed man is raping your sister/mother/daughter and will kill her when he is done.

You have a gun.

Is it wrong to kill him?

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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Mephex

That's just it. Damn right I'd want to kill someone for hurting a loved one in such a way. But in seperating the emotion from the actual act of murder, I can't imagine that it would make it any easier to deal with the aftermath. It's still an eye for an eye, a wrong for a wrong.

Lebell

Well, that's your personal moral decision, but most theologans and other philosophers will make a distinction based on circumstances, such as self defense or the defense of another.

I would have not a single regret in defending my 8 year old step daughter from such an individual (or in defending anyone else in similar circumstances, for that matter).

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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MojoRisin

Killing is pretentious, as is condemning it. I have yet to hear a convincing argument that there is such thing as right or wrong.

As a whole we are immature. The act of killing and placement of values on such an act are an attempt at control. Control is the only way we can deal with the silence of the universe, a desperate attempt to give meaning. A need which has evolved from the development of language. Nothing means anything

So here's a question: Why do we possess the ability to kill?

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Dropping a barbell he points to the sky and says "The suns not yellow, It's chicken!"

Charlatan

It seems to me that if I have a gun I can at least ask him to stop before I fill him full of bullets.

Lebell

So you are expecting to be able to reason with them?

Then I hope you don't end up like this gentleman.


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http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...5E1702,00.html



Father killed, three raped

By Jim Baynes in Port Moresby


ARMED criminals in Port Moresby have murdered a father who tried to prevent them from pack-raping his wife and daughters.

The home invasion took place early yesterday morning in one of the PNG capital's squatters' settlements, The National newspaper reported.

The murdered man's wife and two teenage daughters watched in horror as more than 10 bandits shot their father and chopped up his body with an axe.

The three women were then dragged outside and pack-raped.

The dead man's wife said the criminals then placed her husband's body in their bed and set fire to the house.

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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ARTelevision

As a general way of answering this kind of question, I would say we have laws that take care of the issue. I'm a social being and don't feel a need to define everything in personal terms.

I'm satisfied with the laws as they exist in my country regarding killing. Most other countries define it in similarly civilized ways. The variations between their specific definitions seem to provide a reasonable range of acceptable positions.

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create evolution

Xell101

Given the need or clear value, such as family being raped by crazy son of a bitch, I will shoot someone dead, I'd much rather eliminate an offending knee cap or two, but I'd use my best judgement possible when faced with such a situation.

stingc

What is the worth of someone who causes such pain to others and who contributes nothing to society?

hannukah harry

i see nothing wrong with "killing." i kill insects all the time. that doesn't bother me. could i kill another human? yep. would i? depends on the circumstances. would it be wrong? that's completely subjective. i personally don't think life, any life, is really worth all that much. it really all comes down to a justifiable reason... self-defense, defense of others. oh, and if "i shot a man in reno, just to watch him die," i'd have to consider that justified. LONG LIVE THE MAN IN BLACK!!!

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shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer

raeanna74

I see nothing wrong with killing a human being that is harming and potentially may kill another human being. It's not a matter of eye for an eye. If their intent is to harm and kill they loose all value to humanity. They have reniged any right to life if they intend to maliciously harm another. I would first attempt to injure and/or incapacitate them but if necessary I would kill them without regret. In any other case (other than war) I don't see the point in killing.

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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

twilightfoix

only if they piss me off enough or if they deserved it. well if you piss me off enough then hell, you fucking deserve it

queedo

Only if you believe in the Bible or other rags like it. otherwise you had better hope your parents raised you to know basic rights from wrong.

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If you think you can or you can't, you are right!

mastboyx

only if it was intentional

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Ignorance Is Bliss

nukeu666

doing anything permanent isnt nice unless its nice :P

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Why did the Comp. Engineer get X-mas and Halloween mixed up?
Because Oct(31) == Dec(25)

tecoyah

Yes, I consider killing another person inherently wrong. When you consider the effects likely to be dominoed upon others in that persons group of associations and family. There very well may be indiniduals whom society would be better off without, but I myself am not qualified to make such a descision. Is anyone truly qualified?

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

:::OshnSoul:::

In human minds, yes. In spiritual minds, no.

As I see it, now this is just my view, my Truth- even though sometimes it's hard to fathom, I do know that there is no right or wrong, as we have been given Free Will to choose without judgement. Humans created the boundaries of right and wrong and those opinions change from day to day. Look at the Gay Marriage movement happening. This is still being fought over, but people are less predjudice of it and gay couples are gradually getting married all over now. This would not have happened 40 years ago. It was wrong, end of story. These ideas of right and wrong change, and no one has the same exact view of right and wrong towards things, so it all seems just really confusing to have those terms.
It is a new step to claim that something does not work for you. It is a lot less judgemental and it's the truth- plain and simple. You choose to or not to do something, because it is who you are. That has nothing to do with right or wrong.

On a broad, universal spectrum, killing is okay, because it's a choice. But it does not work for me.

Paq

lebell, while i agree that I'd probably become...well, let's just say pretty scary when/if someone tried to rape someone i loved and i had a gun..i could honestly say i'd probably kill him 7 different ways from sunday after cutting off his genitals and shoving them in his eye sockets and putting his head on a pike out in front as a warning for others...

with that said, i think that saying "stop" once or twice as a warning would be a reasonable expectation. It's not expecting to reason with someone, just a chance to see if all is lost. i do ask first, shoot later.

With that said, the guy in your story, though very touching, didn't really stand a chance against a pack of people out with violent intentions. It isnt the movies where 1 man takes out 20 with a pen. Sorry, that is pretty rare in this world, unless he's navy seal or some such. If he had a gun, he probably could have taken a couple out, which is a good thing, but ultimately, the outcome would *probably* be the same. In that particular case, i don't think the outcome could be much different.

On to the original question: is killing wrong. In a short word, yes, it's wrong. but i also feel it is justifiable. Just ask me if someone rapes my wife, you'll have to get my teeth out of his throat, though..

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Live.

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Radi8tor

RoboBlaster

"I don't think any action is inherantly wrong."

Cmon, I can think of a bunch of "wrong" actions without even trying! Not that I'd want to list any of them here and make anyone think im some kinda whack job...or give the whack jobs ideas for that matter!

Oh and I think killing for no reason is wrong...killing can be justified...but who is judge in that court I do not know...

Tophat665

Yes. Self excluded.

Cf. The golden rule.

Nuff said.

__________________
Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Macheath

One of the first conditions for being a member of a human society is to accept the general "no killing" rule. The rule exists to preserve the existence of the society itself through protecting the existence of its members.

If you cannot abide by this rule, then you should no longer expect the benefits of membership in that society. At the most elemental level that would mean no language, no shelter, no protection, no clothing, no nothing. You would be NOTHING and worth as much.

Ultimately, we do feed, protect and preserve the life of murderers, but that is more a sign of the cohesion and strength of our human society than a comment on the philosopical acceptability of murder.

asaris

Killing of a human being is only morally permissible in one situation:

To save the life of another human being.

Note that this entails that the use of the death penalty by the government is permissible only when it saves lives, and that killing to save your own life is not justified.

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

Lebell

Just playing Devil's Advocate here:

So, if you are a frail/disabled person and someone is going to beat you to within an inch of your life, hospitalize you for months, and break many many bones requiring hours of reconstructive surgery -- but not kill you -- you do not feel you (or anyone else) have the right to use deadly force to stop the attack?

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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filtherton

How could killing be fundamentally wrong? Murder is part of the natural order of things. All omnivores should know this already.
That being said, in our current "civilized" world killing other humans is generally not necessary.
Hypothetically, i would have no problem killing to protect a loved one, and i would lose much respect for said loved one if they would not kill to protect me.
I don't think killing is justified in non-self/loved one defense situations.

asaris

Lebell -- yes and no. I do not have the right to use deadly force to prevent my own death, or any other attack on me (ethically, that is, and with intention it can get quite gray. Also, the government is exactly right to make it legally okay to kill in self-defense.) But I would probably say you have the right to use deadly force to prevent even serious harm to someone else, so not just in cases of death. So if someone's about to beat someone else within an inch of their life, or rape someone, or..., you may use deadly force if it is necessary.

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

WarWagon

I think that self defense or defense of another are perfectly legitimate reasons for killing. If a person is threatening your life or the life of another without being provoked in a life threatening manner, then their intent was to injure and kill. This is a crime, both legally and relative to humanity. It is my personal belief that the punishment should be fitting of the crime, regardless of how "inhumane" it may seem.

If a person kills another person when not defending theirself, they should be killed in the same manner they killed another, regardless of how brutal or painful it may have been. If a person rapes another person, they deserved to be raped. I'm personally sick and tired of seeing people rape, murder, molest, and destroy the lives of victims and their families, only to have their arm swabbed clean before receiving lethal injection with sterilized needles. This is my belief, and I personally don't believe there is any better way to condition people from committing these acts again. I do not see this as "two wrongs don't make a right", I see this as correcting a wrong, plucking the weeds from the garden to keep it from spreading and killing the flowers that should have the opportunity to flourish.

StormBerlin

Yes. I fully believe in twacked out things like Karma and Fate. He'll get his. And that is a worse punishment than death, by far.

__________________
"if anal sex could get a girl pregnant i'd be tits deep in child support" Arcane

irateplatypus

even if i did fully believe in karma, i'd shoulder the burden of whatever came with killing a man who was doing that if it would save my mother/sister/daughter from being raped and murdured. in fact, i'd do it even if it were happening to someone i had never met.

i certainly don't enjoy killing anything, but this certainly seems to be the right thing to do.

this seems so obvious and certain to me, it is funny how some other people can be just as convinced about an opposing view. people are so very interesting.

__________________
If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

~ Winston Churchill

FoolThemAll

No. Self-defense and defense of others.

The silver rule.

Nuff said.

__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

synic213

I believe there are certain individuals who are born without, or lose through the course of their life, the ability to reason and think logically. Among this group of people emerge the murderers and rapists that are responsible for the terrible examples given above. I would feel no regret about killing this type of person, no more so than I feel bad about a cow being slaughtered, or a bug being squashed on the sidewalk.

prosequence

Right, soooo, should we change the title from ARMY to Pack of Murderers?

__________________
And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed...

cataklysm

I think we should eliminate captial punishment, not necessarily because I'm against killing, but it seems like much more of a punishment to rot in a prison cell for a few decades.

Seer666

Some people NEED to be killed. Plain and simple. And if someone is threatening the ones I love, I will drop them without thinking twice.

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Bad spellers of the world untie!!!

I am the one you warned me of

I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.