KellyC

your thoughts about helping an illing person committing suicide. Given that the person is beyond medical help and wishes to end the suffering by dying.

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Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

Journeyman

If they CAN'T set off the final mechanism, sure, I'll see what I can do.

But if they have the physical ability to end themselves, then them needing me says to me that they don't really want that.

minyn

i think its just.

im not playing god or anything, but i'd like to go peacefully if i fear that my end wont be like that.

committing suicide sounds so harsh too.

i know my dad plans to do that, and if he cant, hes going in the garage with his beloved cars.

and im ok with this....mostly

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Mantus

There is a huge taboo/instinctive disposition against suicide in our species. There is also allot of religious dogma about people who commit suicide not going to heaven or being re-incarnated as a lower being. So some people will not be able to do it not because they don’t want too, but because they are afraid of the repercussions.

Kyo

- If they are afraid of the repercussions, then perhaps it is not the right thing for them to do.

- There were also societies where ritual suicide was preferable to other kinds of normal and 'dishonorable' death.

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vonstalhein

Love, i think, necessitates ending pain that can't be ended without your help.

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KellyC

how very true mantus...
my friend and i were having this a discussion about this a while a go, i said would help a person if he/she can't commit suicide by his/her self and my friend said its wrong to do so. He argued that life is precious and we should do everything we can do preserve a life. I said because life is so precious, it deserves only whats good, since a person suffering and wishes to die we should respect the person's wish rather than let the person suffer any further.

i'm not in a clear state of mind right now so there might be some part in the post that people who read would think other wise....i'll edit this later...

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Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

Sleepyjack

Although being really hard, i think could. As long as it was stated before hand that, that's what they wanted? be it a will or some other staement. When people start making assumptions about what the dying person would've wanted, that's where it's extremely dodgy.
So i am all for euthanasia, albeit they may need better laws governing it.

sixate

I would much rather die than be miserable and in pain for the rest of my existence if something terrible ever happened to me. People will put a dog out of it's misery so why not a person?

jay-g

Abortion is legal.....So whats the difference? Its his/her decision and choice.

Journeyman

So rather than them being sent to a lesser afterlife for suicide, they want me to take their place as a murderer. No dice. I'll rent the shotgun, buy the shell, and stick it in their mouth. But if they got a toe, I have no reason to pull the trigger.

k1ng

i dont have a problem with it because i think the world is over populated as it is. however it is illegal so i would not do it myself. i think that, for the most part, if people are able to sustain their own life without the help of someone or something that they can end their own life. suicide and even more so, assisted suicide is for the weak.

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Mehoni

Does it matter? According to the bible NOBODY goes to heaven when they die. Only on person actually went to heaven, and he was alive. ;P

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There seem to be countless rituals and cultural beliefs designed to alleviate their fear of a simple biological truth - all organisms eventually perish.

KellyC

thats a little bit too harsh or a word there, "murderer". I mean yeah, you're killing some one, but you're doing the person's will. I think of murder as killing some one with out their consent

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Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

Journeyman

Where's Thomas Aquinas when we need him?
I just don't see the logic in assisted suicide as a means to avoid the supposed consequences of self-inflicted suicide. If someone asks me to shoot them, I'm either going to suffer for my... I dunno, sin, or I'm a tool and he's going to suffer since it's nothing more than putting another person in between the chain of will->action->death.

filtherton

Maybe this sounds or reads much worse than it sounds in my head, but i think it could be a very beautiful and profound thing to consesually take the life of a terminally ill family member or loved one.

Mantus

Society seems to accept killing and suicide for a good cause. At the same time society has taboos on killing and suicide for self gain. We also seem to think that it is a taboo to ask for ones own death to accomplish a selfish cause. Selfish suicide is probably the greatest social and instinctive taboo there is.

The reason we have so much trouble dealing with suicide logically is the same as the reason why we have trouble dealing with abortion logically. There are no fine lines. It’s a gray area.

If people start offing themselves for reasons of pain, how much pain will make it acceptable? Does mental suffering count as pain, if so how do we evaluate it? How long does some one have to be in pain before suicide is acceptable?

As you see none of these questions can be answered with certainty. So what is the solution?

I believe assisted suicide should be a necessary evil until we can elevate the need for it in our society. Until the necessity for it is removed it each case should be handled by a group of wise and professional people.

Sho Nuff

This would have made a good poll.

I have chronically sick friends and family that I would pull the trigger for if they asked me.

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papermachesatan

A perfectly humane and justifiable thing to do. I'd rather not press the button, pull the trigger, adminster the poison, etc. myself though unless they're physically unable to off themselves.

bparker805

I never understood why it is socially accpeptable to euthanize an animal but not for a human being. Pain is pain and imho it is cruel to let another suffer and live through a terminal illness. I just think its sad that we are more humane to animals than to one another. As for me, I'm going out by skiing the K12. I'm gonna go really fast and if something gets in my way, I'm not turning...

Dragonlich

Having gone through that process with my mother (who eventually did *not* go ahead with it, thankfully), I can honestly say that I don't know.

The short version of it: my mother has/had MS, incurable, and was almost paralyzed at one time. She decided that it was time to end it (which I fully supported). The doctor said no, because he wanted some final checks. During these checks, my mother was given an unrelated drug, which just happened to remove much of her problems. It eventually turns out that she had *another* muscle disease (MG), which can be "cured", in that there are drugs to remove the effects.

So... Even though I wanted her to die, to end her suffering, this death would have been unnecessary, and it would have robbed me of my mother's presence during the past 10 years or so.

On the other hand, if the final checks would not have ended in this result, she'd be dead now, and I'd be happy for her.

Note: I am NOT saying that everyone should be given an endless number of "last chances" because the cure might just be found. I'm just saying that in this particular instance, it was the right thing to do; in many other cases, you'd just be hoping for the impossible.

papermachesatan

It sounds to me like the doctor hadn't ruled out all possiblties yet which was why he(thankfully) said no.

Suicide shouldn't occur until all reasonable solutions have been tried and every reasonable alternative checked out.

Dragonlich

papermachesatan: actually, it wasn't a reasonable alternative. All the evidence at the time pointed at MS, which meant that she was dying. There was no indication whatsoever that she might *not* have MS at all.

Y'see, my mother had had loads of tests in her life, none of which were conclusive. The problem is that you simply cannot tell which of the various muscle diseases one has. Either a certain medicine helps, in which case you have the associated disease, or it doesn't, in which case you have another. My mother had tried that medication in the past, and it had not helped her one bit then. There was no hope for a cure or solution, but we got one anyway.

That's the whole problem, isn't it? Where do you draw the line... When have you tried every reasonable alternative? Suppose you have terminal cancer, and you end your life, and the very next day someone finds *the* cure? You simply cannot predict such things.

Dilbert1234567

People should have certain rights the right to life as well as the right to death. if one is so sick and are in so much pain that they wish to leave this world, let them go. id rather that they left in a controlled environment, under a physicians care, rather then taking it upon them selves to do the deed. a few pills from the doc and you will pass, instead of CAL TRANS scraping your body up from under the overpass. yes death is sad and i wish it upon no one, but if they seek death let them. No one should have to suffer and if life is suffering let him or her die.

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isis

Ok, am I the only one who hates when ABORTION is brought into something COMPLETELY different? I mean, abortion isn't assisted suicide, by any means.

I'm sure if someone needed the assistance of pulling the plug/flipping the switch that sort of thing, I'd do it. However, if they were completely capable of doing it themselves, I would never. I'm no Kevorkian.

macro

I think it's OK, so long as you have the mental ability and understanding to accept what you're doing, and the possible consequences.

papermachesatan

interesting.

It is a difficult problem. However, the real disease could not have been discovered at all with your mother's suffering dragging on until she eventually dies naturally.

A cure for cancer could always be found the next day after my assisted suicide. Alternatively, I could hold out for years, suffering greatly, waiting for that cure that may not come.

amonkie

If someone asked me to help them, I'd want to make sure they were really serious, and know exactly what their reasons were. If it was someone who'd been suffering extreme pain for an extended period of time, without any hope of relief, I could see myself possibly asking for and end too.

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tecoyah

Family only.....I would not feel I had the right to interscede otherwise.

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tiberry

Assisted in the sense that the individual would "push the button" or some other mechanism that THEY had to initiate - sure. It would have to be of their own volition, not mine. I would just assist.

I think the "hanging on" or "do everything possible to keep them alive" approach is rather selfish, and not based in love. If you truly love the person, then why make them suffer? Its out of fear I think. Fear of loss.

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Yalaynia

I had a friend he was diagnosed with cancer, and it was incurable. He was in server pain, and on morphine injections. He had a perscription for them and the doctor gave him some to bring home. Basically enough to kill himself. The doctor told him to becareful that if he took 1 or 2 he would just be sick, 3 or 4 he would be in the hospital, and 6 or 7 he would be dead. A few days later he had died.
It wasn't assisting suicide or murder it was just the doctor told him in a way how to kill himself with out it coming back on him.

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I couldnt think of anything to put here , but I guess anything would do

Dragonlich

Actually, Yalaynia, that'd be assisted suicide IMO. I'd say that just because you aren't there physically doesn't mean you didn't assist. The doctor explained how your friend could kill himself, and provided the means to do so - how much more assistance does he really need?

Dilbert1234567

My grand father had cancer, it started in his lungs and spread, he fought it for 5 years but it was a down hill battle, he wanted to fight, but not every one does, my grand mother has made it clear that she does not want to fight if she does get a terminal illness, and that is her right, as is everyone’s right to die if they don’t want to live any longer. i am for assisted suicide, no one should be forced to suffer because of someone else’s morals. Our lives are our own.

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sexymama

We are very fortunate in Oregon to have laws that guide assisted suicide. There are some important things to note:

1. Assisted suicide is through medication, NOT violant means.
2. A person must request the means at least 2 times prior to having the prescription written.
3. After the prescription is written, there is a waiting period (I believe 24 hours.)
4. The doctor can only write the prescription if you are terminally ill.

I am all for it! 100 years ago, people died. Today we keep them alive and in pain. Is this "modern" technology really better? Not always.

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images

Although it is our prerogative to decide whether we should endure the torment of a terminal illness, pain is an emotion like any other, capable of distorting our judgement. People who are depressed go on benders, others go out and shoot up public facilities. I would say being euthanized is ethical if and only if one gives themselves enough time to weigh the opportunity cost of giving up. If someone is diagnosed with a fatal disease and immediately requests death, I would assume that person to be ignorant in the sense that they haven't given the slightest bit of time to decide whether it is the right choice. There have been many cases in which people have overcome purportedly "fatal" illnesses, as well as others who have come out of three-decade comas. Jack "Dr. Death" Kevorkian once put a person to death who was misdiagnosed with a fatal illness. The person would have lived a normal life, had they not requested Kevorkian's "Death Machine." The death machine, might I add, is a horrible, malfunctional contraption that once put a person through more suffering when their veins collapsed and ceased to circulate the toxins. Kevorkian improvised by grabbing a pillow and smothering the person to a convulsive death. Slightly off-topic, I know, but I just thought I'd bring that up.

Proponents of euthanisia may take into consideration the explicit monetary costs of having someone on life support. To me, that is very sad if someone wishes to live, but simply can't afford the life support. However, at any rate, I don't think anything under a year's time is sufficient enough to determine whether assisted suicide is the right choice. I cannot speak accurately for everyone since I've never been through crippling pain as such, but principally I stand by a longer period to think things over. Who says we have to accept the situation? After all, once you are dead, there is no turning back.

mr_mcrafe

I think it should be allowed, if someone is terminally ill or in chronic pain for the rest of their life, and their life is made a complete misery by this, then they should have the right to allow someone to help them end their suffering. However they should have to wait a while after they have been diagnosed as terminally ill or the chronic pain has started, as they could be not in the state to make the decision. At the end of the day though, people should be allowed to decide when they want to die.

Grothendieck

I believe in a person's right to decide to end their life at any point in time. I believe that it is selfish, in most cases, to commit suicide. I believe that helping a person to commit suicide is not a crime. I would think that it is too great of a burden for myself to carry. And the "professional helpers", here in Switzerland, or in Amsterdam, often appear creepy to me.

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Dragonlich

In Amsterdam, the professional helpers would actually be the regular household doctor you see every time you get sick. Not that creepy, IMHO.

Yakk

My thoughts...

If you think it is personally morally justified to assist someone in particular of committing suicide, make sure you don't get caught.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Gwenllian

My mom lives in Oregon (where I grew up and spent most of my life) and while she was dealing with her kidney's failing, she always had her living will near her. She never wanted to be "sustained" or to put her family in financial jeopordy, because she went into a coma or some other terrible thing.

My mom, went through many years of living a life that had no quality to it. She fought for a long time, and came to the decision to stop dialysis after being on it for 8 years ( the normal waiting time for a transplant is 2 1/2 years if I recall correctly). She had called me and told me she was going to stop the next day. With this decision, my mom was going to live a maximum of 2 weeks.

I was fine with her choice. She was in a stable mind set and she had suffered long enough, and my brother, step dad and myself saw it. It was hard to accept, but it was her choice and I was all for her ending her pain.

Luckily, the next day, the hospital called and had finally found a match for her and she is alive and slowly regaining her life back.

Still, we still know, that if anything goes wrong with the transplanted organs....or something else happens, my mom will die. There is no more drawing it out. There is no more huge medical bills, there will be no more pain and suffering for her...and I will not stand in her way, to find peace.

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