Smoey

Everybody has an idea of "heaven" and, assuming so, everybody knows at least one person that died and went to heaven. Imagine if you will, finding yourself in heaven and seeing someone that has been there for a while, would you be able to recognized him/her. I believe that the image you keep in head of that soemone dead, will be the person you will see once you arrive in heaven. For instance, my grandpa died when I was 12, to me he was old, typical grandpa style, to others-say his college buddies- he was young. Now that he is in heaven I wounder what he will look like in person when I arrive. Will he look the same to me as he will to his college buddies? My idea might be fuzzie, I was stoned when I thought of this, anybody have any thoughts?

lordjeebus

If heaven is a true paradise, I'm sure that people can appear to you however you want them to.

But here's a thought I'm having: The processing of faces is a function of the brain -- there are people who cannot perceive faces at all. For that matter, some people can't see anything. It seems to me that "seeing" is more a function of our bodies than of souls. Hence, it would make sense to me that if heaven were to exist, it would involve contact with people in a qualitatively different way than on Earth -- something we within our current physical restraints probably cannot comprehend.

Darkeryet

Although I am not into the heaven thing, that response was very thought provoking.

Thanks.

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Darkeryet

lordjeebus

I'll admit that I'm not into it either -- but I do enjoy considering alternate ways of thinking about the world.

irateplatypus

i'm not sure i would make that leap just yet. you could just as easily say "if heaven is a true paradise, I'm sure that people can appear to others how they want themselves to.

interesting discussion though...

Silvy

Continuing on this...
If both properties of heaven hold up (people appear as you want them to, and people appear to others as they'd want them to), then heaven must be different for each and every one of us.
In other words: everyone has their very own heaven, and interactions between actual souls doesn't exist.

Interesting thoughts...

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lordjeebus

Hence the point of the second part of my post -- I think that perception is a bodily function, and hence in heaven there would be other ways of interaction. Hence, the whole subjectiveness of perception in our world would be less of a consideration. I think that if you desired, you could create an internal and subjective representation of someone -- but that wouldn't be the only form of interaction.

tecoyah

Some believe that the soul is recycled(reincarnation) and that there are soul groups, souls that interact thru many incarnations and many lifetimes. It is beleived that these souls unconciously(if that is the word) seek each other out and work together to better each other and accomplish that which is set before them for this life. Heaven is considered a place to reconnect and formulate the next cycle in spiritual growth and soul journey.
Heaven seems as you think it should.

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Darkeryet

I agree with this to an extent. In my own little spiritual mind this is how it happens but the "heaven" is merely a pool of energy that our "souls" regroup and disperse. I do believe your energy carriers on and will hold onto certain parts of its previous existence. Everything is a circular pattern. In life, death, and rebirth. If you look at everything you can see there are circles. That is why I believe our energy or soul keeps coming back.

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Darkeryet

Smoey

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Silvy
[B] Continuing on this...
If both properties of heaven hold up (people appear as you want them to, and people appear to others as they'd want them to), then heaven must be different for each and every one of us.
In other words: everyone has their very own heaven, and interactions between actual souls doesn't exist.

If heaven is precieved diferently by everyone, how can the dead meet in heaven, because everyone will have there own heaven, right?

Silvy

Right, that's what I meant to say...

__________________
"Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. "
- Murphy MacManus (Boondock Saints)

tecoyah

extremely well put/darkeryet

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Eldaire

I think that you'll see something we can't possibly begin to imagine right now. Y'know, like you'll see their soul.

Silvy

To put that in an even more general perspective (in line with previous posts):

I think that we will percieve their souls... However our perception may become...

__________________
"Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. "
- Murphy MacManus (Boondock Saints)

carebear

This thread has really made me realize how undesirable my idea of heaven is--- right now, anyway. I'm just so human.

Heaven to me is not of the earth. Therefore, I don't think the things or people we desire now will even be in heaven. The person that you are, your favorite food, poetry, uncle.... they'll all be left behind. Heaven will be praising the one Being we should have been giving all our attention to in the first place.
And frankly, I'd rather just stay here on this planet with Mark Twain...
"I'd like to get away from earth awhile
And then come back to it and begin over.
May no fate willfully misunderstand me
and half grant what I wish and snatch me away
Not to return. Earth's the right place to love:
I don't know where it's likely to go better."
-Twain, "Birches"

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ARTelevision

In my opinion we are all already dead and this is heaven. I'm not being glib. I really think this.
That being said - yes - we see what we want to see.

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meembo

I'm sort of with ART. I don't think heaven has to be distinct from heaven. For example, imagine being in some kind of state where all you were responsible for was helping others, and you were given the power to actually do it. Would that be heaven? Is heaven altruistic, or hedonistic? I don't know, but I don't think it's in the clouds; I think it's in the environment we live in and know

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nate_dawg

This is quite an assumption.

I don't believe in heaven, and therefore have no idea of it.

However, I'd have to agree to the common sediment that each person's view of heaven is unique in many ways.

duckznutz

Most people will assume heaven = pure pleasure 24 hours a day, and Hell = pain 24 hours a day.

Now as humans we dont really experience 'pleasure' as most pleasures on our list are really just 'relief from pain' or discomfort

Scratching, burping, farting, peeing, defacating, having a bath, sneezing, playing sports, watching sports, watching scary movies, laughing, eating, drinking, alcohol, drugs, sex etc etc . . . . all designed to lower stress and release endorphines (painkillers) and bring us from out pained state back up to our normal 'pleasured' state.

It follows therefore that heaven is simply permanent'absence' of pain, fear, stress etc, and is therefore not a positive experience as such but rather the absence of a negative one.

When we die we can no longer suffer . . . hence we are in theoretical 'heaven' . . . . (and you thought heaven was snorting cocaine out of Britneys navel!!)

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Where your talents and the needs of the world cross . . there lies your vocation.

duckznutz

another factor to consider . . . . pleasure cannot be experienced WITHOUT pain! They go hand in hand as they are relatives.


Work all week and really enjoy your weekend. Retire and have nothing to do all week and your weekends wont seem so much fun any more.

Work hard and save and enjoy your new car/boat/house/plasma screen . . . but inherit £5million on top of the $100million you already have and you can buy 100 cars and boats and not enjoy a single one of them. All of which brings us back to ARTelevisions comment that THIS is heaven right here right now! Take away your pain and your pleasures disappear too . . . . . . . knowing that our lives are short brings pleasure . . it would be hell to be told you would live forever . . . . and just imagine the fun you would have if you knew you only had one month to go?