The story of Job - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

redravin40 · 11-04-2003, 07:26 PM

I think Job has much to offer in the way of looking at the nature of suffering and destruction that touches us all.
How many of us have looked at the sky and said "What the hell did I do to deserve this?'
Here is a short essay I did on the Book of Job.

I have to admit that the idea of Satan hanging out in Heaven and making bets with God is an interesting image all by itself but be that as it may the story of Job has some amazing imagery and ideas.

I also found it interesting that God was the one responsible for taking his 'riches' (camels, goats, horses, family and servants) while it was Satan who inflicted the boils and scabs.

Perhaps even then the writers recognized a difference in the things we have no control over (physics, disease, natural disasters) and the forces that make for a comfortable life.

The neighbors were not the first to offer him advice though.

His wife tells him to curse God and he dismisses her right off.

Considering that she just lost all her children in one fell stroke I can understand her feelings.

When his friends Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar drop by, Job curses the day rather then God.

Eliphaz says that wraith at god kill fools and envy kills the silly, accept the will of God and all will be well.

Kind of the 'don’t worry, be happy approach'.

Job asks, “Is there not an appointed time to man on earth? I will not refrain my mouth: I will speak the anguish of my spirit.”

I have always said there is a difference between ranting and whining.

When you rant you don’t expect anyone to do anything about your problem.

Job felt he had a right to rant and I agree.

Bildad had another approach, “God will not cast away a perfect man, and neither will he help an evil doers.”

He asks if Job should take a look at his actions that might have caused these problems.

Job asks of his friend, “If I am wicked, why then should I labor in vain? And if I am good, why has God done this to me?”

Then Zophar chimes in saying, “The eyes of the wicked shall fail. All men have such eyes.”

He seems to feel that we were born evil and deserve what we get.

Job asks, “In whose hand is the soul of every living thing and the breath of all mankind?”

If man is so evil Job wonders, how could God possibly be part of us?

Then there is Elihu the younger man who jumps in after all the elders have spoken.

Like most young folks he is pretty sure he has all the answers saying, “Job will be tried to unto the end because of his answers to wicked men.”

He also spends a lot of time telling people to listen to him and darnnit maybe they will learn something.

Here Job replies with, “Who shall declare Gods way to Gods face?” and “God forbade that I should justify to you.”

At this point God has had enough.

From the whirlwind he asks “Where were you when I created the heavens and the earth?”

What right or sense is there in questioning God?

He tells Job to make sacrifices for his friends because their advice was seriously flawed.

And then God gives everything back that he took away.

It might have been an even more effective story if Job hadn’t been returned to his comfortable life but still refused to turn away from God.

I see people who have been paralyzed from something like falling out of a tree having to deal with the challenges that everyday brings.

Some probably take Jobs wife’s advice right from the start but slowly turn around as time brings awareness and understanding.

I have always skimmed over Job in the past without studying it in depth and I appreciate the insight it has offered.

ARTelevision · 11-04-2003, 08:33 PM

Yes. Absolutely. An awesome, pivotal, existential tale.
I studied the Bible as an undergraduate.
Thanks for reminding me of this one...

chavos · 11-04-2003, 09:55 PM

the ending and intro appear to be later additions. the "happy" ending is probably not original to the dialouge. job was written, amongst other things, to challenge the kind of folks who say the rich are rich because of God, the poor are poor becuase of sin, etc...and i always get a lot out of it, especially when i'm going trhough a lot in my life. i wouldn't want to only know God through Job, but it's good to know that i can incorporate my anguish in to my faith with out having guilt for those feelings

Killconey · 11-04-2003, 10:42 PM

You put shame in my heart as I think of all the things that I whine about. Perhaps I should reread the book of Job...

Tman144 · 11-05-2003, 07:03 PM

Quote:

I have to admit that the idea of Satan hanging out in Heaven and making bets with God is an interesting image all by itself but be that as it may the story of Job has some amazing imagery and ideas.

I have heard that the original text refers to it as THE satan, and not as satan. The diffrence is that back then satan was a title, like the prosecuting attorney of heaven. The devil became an actualy person much later.

Two, this story doesn't make much sense because God is supposed to know the outcome before it happened, being all-knowing, so "testing" Job seems kinda a waste of time.

Three, the book of Job never really gave me a good impression of God. He always seemed to come off as a prick in this story to me.

taliendo · 11-13-2003, 01:22 PM

I as well, don't really care for the book of Job. I mean, I get the story, and I know what kind of values that it's supposed to teach me, but I really can't make it through without having a lot of feelings of self-pity - Something that I can not stand. My life's not perfect, but reading this text always seems to bring to mind every little specific on why I've molded it to be this way. Over all, its just a depressing story.

life is suffering, probably for the good of me, but I still don't like to be reminded of it too often.

meembo · 11-14-2003, 05:36 PM

I don't think Job is a story meant to be reflective. I think it's meant to be provocative. I see it as a story just between God and one of His creations, and I think Job sees it as that as well. Job just puts everything that is around him in the context of his relationship with God, and assumes a relationship that is confrontive and consequential and real. I like seeing Job question his creator and run from his creator - Job's God couldn't be more real

11-04-2003, 07:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
redravin40 Loser Location: With Jadzia	The story of Job I think Job has much to offer in the way of looking at the nature of suffering and destruction that touches us all. How many of us have looked at the sky and said "What the hell did I do to deserve this?' Here is a short essay I did on the Book of Job. I have to admit that the idea of Satan hanging out in Heaven and making bets with God is an interesting image all by itself but be that as it may the story of Job has some amazing imagery and ideas. I also found it interesting that God was the one responsible for taking his 'riches' (camels, goats, horses, family and servants) while it was Satan who inflicted the boils and scabs. Perhaps even then the writers recognized a difference in the things we have no control over (physics, disease, natural disasters) and the forces that make for a comfortable life. The neighbors were not the first to offer him advice though. His wife tells him to curse God and he dismisses her right off. Considering that she just lost all her children in one fell stroke I can understand her feelings. When his friends Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar drop by, Job curses the day rather then God. Eliphaz says that wraith at god kill fools and envy kills the silly, accept the will of God and all will be well. Kind of the 'don’t worry, be happy approach'. Job asks, “Is there not an appointed time to man on earth? I will not refrain my mouth: I will speak the anguish of my spirit.” I have always said there is a difference between ranting and whining. When you rant you don’t expect anyone to do anything about your problem. Job felt he had a right to rant and I agree. Bildad had another approach, “God will not cast away a perfect man, and neither will he help an evil doers.” He asks if Job should take a look at his actions that might have caused these problems. Job asks of his friend, “If I am wicked, why then should I labor in vain? And if I am good, why has God done this to me?” Then Zophar chimes in saying, “The eyes of the wicked shall fail. All men have such eyes.” He seems to feel that we were born evil and deserve what we get. Job asks, “In whose hand is the soul of every living thing and the breath of all mankind?” If man is so evil Job wonders, how could God possibly be part of us? Then there is Elihu the younger man who jumps in after all the elders have spoken. Like most young folks he is pretty sure he has all the answers saying, “Job will be tried to unto the end because of his answers to wicked men.” He also spends a lot of time telling people to listen to him and darnnit maybe they will learn something. Here Job replies with, “Who shall declare Gods way to Gods face?” and “God forbade that I should justify to you.” At this point God has had enough. From the whirlwind he asks “Where were you when I created the heavens and the earth?” What right or sense is there in questioning God? He tells Job to make sacrifices for his friends because their advice was seriously flawed. And then God gives everything back that he took away. It might have been an even more effective story if Job hadn’t been returned to his comfortable life but still refused to turn away from God. I see people who have been paralyzed from something like falling out of a tree having to deal with the challenges that everyday brings. Some probably take Jobs wife’s advice right from the start but slowly turn around as time brings awareness and understanding. I have always skimmed over Job in the past without studying it in depth and I appreciate the insight it has offered. Last edited by redravin40; 11-04-2003 at 08:03 PM..

11-04-2003, 08:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Yes. Absolutely. An awesome, pivotal, existential tale. I studied the Bible as an undergraduate. Thanks for reminding me of this one... __________________ create evolution

11-04-2003, 10:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
Killconey Crazy Location: Various places in the Midwest, all depending on when I'm posting.	You put shame in my heart as I think of all the things that I whine about. Perhaps I should reread the book of Job... __________________ Look out for numbers two and up and they'll look out for you.

11-13-2003, 01:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
taliendo Insane Location: an indelible crawl through the gutters	I as well, don't really care for the book of Job. I mean, I get the story, and I know what kind of values that it's supposed to teach me, but I really can't make it through without having a lot of feelings of self-pity - Something that I can not stand. My life's not perfect, but reading this text always seems to bring to mind every little specific on why I've molded it to be this way. Over all, its just a depressing story. life is suffering, probably for the good of me, but I still don't like to be reminded of it too often. __________________ -LIFE IS ABSURD- Last edited by taliendo; 11-13-2003 at 01:25 PM..

11-14-2003, 05:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	I don't think Job is a story meant to be reflective. I think it's meant to be provocative. I see it as a story just between God and one of His creations, and I think Job sees it as that as well. Job just puts everything that is around him in the context of his relationship with God, and assumes a relationship that is confrontive and consequential and real. I like seeing Job question his creator and run from his creator - Job's God couldn't be more real __________________ less I say, smarter I am

11-04-2003, 09:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	the ending and intro appear to be later additions. the "happy" ending is probably not original to the dialouge. job was written, amongst other things, to challenge the kind of folks who say the rich are rich because of God, the poor are poor becuase of sin, etc...and i always get a lot out of it, especially when i'm going trhough a lot in my life. i wouldn't want to only know God through Job, but it's good to know that i can incorporate my anguish in to my faith with out having guilt for those feelings