Is "I am agnostic" a valid answer to "Do you beleive in god?" - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Moskie · 11-01-2003, 05:06 AM

This is most likely something that has been discussed before on this board, but I couldn't find an exact topic about. So anyway, I read an article that tried to differentiate between claims of faith, and claims of knowledge. It discussed how agnosticism is a claim of knowledge, and is not an acceptable answer to the question of "Do you beleive in god?" An agnostic is typically someone who claims not to *know* whether god exists, but the question is whether you *beleive* in god.

I think it's an interesting dilemma. For a long time, I would associate agnosticism as my belief system. But, after thinking through this article, I've changed my answer to agnostic/atheist for the question of "do you believe in god?" (not saying just 'atheist', because I get some cold stares if i do

)

So I propose this: Say you had to bet a dollar on whether god exists. The decision you'd make for that bet determines how you should answer the question. Thoughts?

bermuDa · 11-01-2003, 05:39 AM

any answer regarding religion is valid.

"i like carrots" is just as valid as the question that precedes it. (can you tell i'm atheist?)

however, "i am agnostic" is the equivalent of saying "i don't know", and is a valid answer that actually makes sense.

rogue49 · 11-01-2003, 07:39 AM

Yep...this is a person who believes there's something more significant,
but at the same time is saying they are sure of the definitions.

This is totally legit to say,
better than defining it and then going around trying to force it on others or proving it.
IMHO

Food Eater Lad · 11-01-2003, 11:43 AM

Sure it is, why wouldnt it be? They are saying, there might be, there might not, but it really doesnt matter. Sounds like a fair answer to me.

Anomaly_ · 11-01-2003, 01:30 PM

I agree that it isn't an acceptable answer. I don't think a lot of people realize that one can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic Christian or an agnostic 'insert religion here". Just because one states he doesn't know whether or not god(s) exist(s) doesn't mean he is obligated to NOT believe in a higher power. In general though, there don't seem to be many people who believe in god but question his existence. This seems to be why agnosticism often wrongly becomes synonymous with atheism.

GakFace · 11-01-2003, 01:49 PM

Heh, I remember from some book of useless knowledge, that the word was originally coined by some athiest that was sick of being called an athiest, so one day he came back by saying, "I'm agnostic"

But now it means you believe in something, but as to what it is? who knows. I think its acceptable. Simply because what you are looking for past that is what exactly do they think? Well if you believe in God, there are so many interpretations nowadays that you need more description from them. Even then you could get more description from an atheist, as "i don't believe in him" isn't always the reason either.

CSflim · 11-01-2003, 02:04 PM

I think if you wish to be precise with your wording, the only acceptable answer to "Do you believe in God?" is "define your terms".

filtherton · 11-01-2003, 05:20 PM

Isn't answering said question with "I am an agnostic" simply a way of answering the question without actually answering it. From the outset it appears to demand only a simple yes or no answer. If anomaly is correct to point out that agnostic christians do exist then it seems deceptive.

If someone asked you if you ate meat and your reply was simply, "I'm a vegetarian," well, you're not really saying anything definitively. There are many vegetarians who eat fish, and chicken too.

Vegetarian, like agnostic doesn't really mean much in the context of that question.

Besides, why can't you just say yes or no?

chavos · 11-01-2003, 07:13 PM

If you want to ask yes or no questions about God, there is not really an answer that can be given. Perhaps it will be an invitation to further conversation, but a one word affirmation or denial of such a complex idea is what i would doubt the validity of if it stands alone. my policy is to not usually answer that question unless i have the time to explain my answer, simply because saying "Yes" or "I am Christian" leaves so many things out. they probably will know more about me when i decline to say than if i just told them the one word.

Killconey · 11-02-2003, 10:43 AM

To a yes or no question, being an agnostic is answering maybe.

When betting a dollar that God doesn't exist, being an agnostic is betting on both sides while secretly wondering if its possible for the coin to stand up on its side.

anti fishstick · 11-02-2003, 11:58 AM

it is a valid answer because people do categorize themselves as agnostics. and if thats how you want to relate then so be it.

yellowgowild · 11-02-2003, 12:56 PM

I'm Agnostic I guess. Since I don't recall asking to be born, I think I'll do what I want while treating people as humanely as possible. Then I'll see what happens when I die. If there is a God and he doesn't like it then he should talk to me in person right now.

Sledge · 11-02-2003, 02:05 PM

If you want to get technical, you can draw a line between agnosticism and "weak" or "negative" atheism. Agnostics believe that the existence of God can be neither proven nor disproven, and live their life according to that. So-called "negative" atheists lack belief in a deity because there is no proof for one. (Contrast this to "positive" atheists, who believe definitively that there is no god.) It's a subtle difference, but it's there. I generally identify myself as a negative atheist and a secular humanist.

The terms have come to mean roughly the same thing anyway. I have no problem with people who say they're plain agnostic. "Agnostic Christian" or "Agnostic whatever," though, is a contradiction in terms to me.

Moskie · 11-02-2003, 02:10 PM

ah-ha! I just found the article that got me thinking about it. Judge its credibility as you see fit: it's an interview by American Atheist of Douglas Adams, author of "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy".

http://www.americanatheist.org/win98...silverman.html

Quote:

If you describe yourself as 'Atheist,' some people will say, "Don't you mean 'Agnostic'" I have to reply that I really do mean Atheist. I really do not believe that there is a god - in fact I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one. It's easier to say that I am a radical Atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it's an opinion I hold seriously. It's funny how many people are genuinely surprised to hear a view expressed so strongly. In England we seem to have drifted from vague wishy-washy Anglicanism to vague wishy-washy Agnosticism - both of which I think betoken a desire not to have to think about things too much.

People will then often say "But surely it's better to remain an Agnostic just in case" This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it.

....

Other people will ask how I can possibly claim to know? Isn't belief-that-there-is-not-a-god as irrational, arrogant, etc., as belief-that-there-is-a-god? To which I say no for several reasons. First of all I do not believe-that-there-is-not-a-god. I don't see what belief has got to do with it. I believe or don?t believe my four-year old daughter when she tells me that she didn?t make that mess on the floor. I believe in justice and fair play (though I don't know exactly how we achieve them, other than by continually trying against all possible odds of success). I also believe that England should enter the European Monetary Union. I am not remotely enough of an economist to argue the issue vigorously with someone who is, but what little I do know, reinforced with a hefty dollop of gut feeling, strongly suggests to me that it's the right course. I could very easily turn out to be wrong, and I know that. These seem to me to be legitimate uses for the word believe. As a carapace for the protection of irrational notions from legitimate questions, however, I think that the word has a lot of mischief to answer for. So, I do not believe-that-there-is-no-god. I am, however, convinced that there is no god

Aesik · 11-02-2003, 04:55 PM

If a question is asked that only has the options of "yes" or "no", than any answer that is not "yes" or "no" does not answer the question!

Anomaly_ · 11-02-2003, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sledge
The terms have come to mean roughly the same thing anyway. I have no problem with people who say they're plain agnostic. "Agnostic Christian" or "Agnostic whatever," though, is a contradiction in terms to me.

No, it isn't. To claim you're an agnostic says nothing of your belief in god. It is only a statement about your knowledge of god. It is then very possible to be an agnostic Christian, Muslim, Jew, or whatever.

billege · 11-03-2003, 01:37 AM

The question does not demand a yes or no answer. The person asking the question may, but that's different; isn't it?

I believe the agnostic has the better answer than yes or no.

The person that answer's "yes," has given up part of the capacity to learn, to grow. The person that says "yes" has said that they already know the answer, and don't need to know more.

The person that says "no," is stuck in the same bind as the "yes." Saying "no" means also presuming to know the answer to the unanswerable. Saying "no" closes the door to consideration.

The agnostic has left the door open. If god wishes to instruct the agnostic, he will. The agnostic is more willing to listen than the believer. The believer is listinening for what he wants to hear. Humans are very good at that. The person with his ears shut is screwed as well. The agnostic is the smart one.

The agnostic says, "Hey, I don't know if there is a god. I don't know if there isn't one. Let me see what I can learn. When I die, I'll know for sure."

Sledge · 11-03-2003, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anomaly_
No, it isn't. To claim you're an agnostic says nothing of your belief in god. It is only a statement about your knowledge of god. It is then very possible to be an agnostic Christian, Muslim, Jew, or whatever.

That is interesting! Could you describe to me what an agnostic Christian, Muslim, or Jew would believe?

Moskie · 11-03-2003, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sledge
That is interesting! Could you describe to me what an agnostic Christian, Muslim, or Jew would believe?

I can think of a very good example, I think. Take someone who is raised to be christian. They lead a christian life for many years, but then one day they begin to question their belief in christianity, or even god. They may stay in this state for an extened period of time, teetering between believing and not believing. I think that's what an agnostic christian would be.

chavos · 11-03-2003, 06:59 PM

moreover, someone who considers him or herself practicing or faithful on some tenets may profess agnosticism on others. i believe in God, and in the gospel proclaimed by Christ. I'm agnostic as to what ressurection means, and what the exact nature of God is. I care deeply about these questions, but i'm simply with out the answers at this time.

empu · 11-03-2003, 09:16 PM

Embrace your inner atheist.

dragon2fire · 11-04-2003, 04:28 AM

i am a agnostic is a very good answer to do i belive in god

it says i dont know and really who does know for sure wether or not god exist

the agnostic does not say that god out right does not exist simply that they dont know for sure

whats worng with that?

Moskie · 11-04-2003, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dragon2fire
i am a agnostic is a very good answer to do i belive in god

it says i dont know and really who does know for sure wether or not god exist

the agnostic does not say that god out right does not exist simply that they dont know for sure

whats worng with that?

Your answer is exactly what I'm talking about. The question was about belief, and you answer with a claim regarding knowledge (you said "i don't know").

I know I'm splitting hairs here, but I guess that's the point of this whole thread. Like I said in the first post, if you had to place a (inconsequential) bet on the existence of god, what would you bet on, yes or no? I understand that refraining from the bet altogether is a valid option, and I think that's what the definition agnostic is. But, if you're able to decide how you would bet in that situation, I think that would make you *not* agnostic. If you know you'd bet on god not existing, then you're atheist, and if you know you'd bet on god existing, then you're theistic.

Jadey · 11-05-2003, 10:05 PM

I often joke that I am an agnostic becuase I am afraid of committment. Is that a valid answer to the question about god, depends on if the person asking me that question thinks so. *shrugs*

mml · 11-06-2003, 01:06 PM

If you take the precept that you must give a yes or no answer, then saying, "I'm agnostic" does not suffice. Additionally, saying yes or no does not necessarily mean you are an atheist or theist. As a gambler will tell you, you may not always believe that a team is going to win, but you may play the odds and bet on them anyway. I realize this is a simplification of the concept, but this is not a black and white issue.

"I'm Agnostic" is an acceptable answer for the general question, "Do you believe in God?" You are simply stating, "I am unsure."

As far as the concept of an Agnostic/Christian or other denomination, I certainly think it is possible. My mother was raised an Epsicopalian and was devout for most of her life. In her later years, she began to have certain doubts about the actual concept of God. She was very spiritual, but was simply unsure about God. She still, however, loved the Church and enjoyed services and being part of the community. She lived as an Episcopalian, even discussing her doubts with her priest and lived happily that way.

taliendo · 11-12-2003, 10:12 PM

I think that its an irresponcible answer to the question. Just my lowly opinion, but allow me to explain.

I was sitting in a sociology class a couple of semesters ago and the entire class was forced to answer the question of religious affiliation in a role-call manner. Most everyone claimed to be an agnostic, or atheist, or simple stated "I was raised Catholic." or "My Mother is Jewish, and my Father is Southern Baptist."

Personally, I look at my peers and see an entire generation of people who have rejected organized religion, and not without good reason. The crimes the 'Church' has perpetrated in the last few hundred years alone would make the average person quite turned off. The problem is that the fundamentalist's actions simply do not align with their own ideologies.

But I ask you this - Does that our excuse our generation from pondering the eternal questions? If you search your heart or soul or whatever you think you have you will find the answers that you seek.

Personally I'm a Christian. I was raised Pentecostal, but I do not hold to their Puritanical Dogma. I enjoy Buddhism too, as a great philosophy, but in the end, its the Christ that answered those questions for me; I don't condone every action done in the name of Christ.

meembo · 11-14-2003, 05:39 PM

"Is "I am agnostic" a valid answer to "Do you beleive in god?"

Very much so. I believe the earnestness of anyone who says so.

Anomaly_ · 11-15-2003, 11:57 PM

It has nothing to do with earnestness though. It's a non-answer to a question about belief because your response is only concerned with knowledge. I apologize for sounding like a droning, broken record but I don't think most posts are rationally responding to Moskie's question.

Parabola · 11-17-2003, 12:54 AM

Of course it is. They way I see it being agnostic is a belief just like being aethiest or believing in god. It may not be as supported as either one or even as clear but that doesn't make it valid.

The.Lunatic · 11-19-2003, 01:07 PM

yes it is, its just a validification that you've never given any thought to the subject, but are a pussy and would'nt want to offend a god if there were one, and you've been completley manipulated by society.

Okay that was harsh, but there is a god get used to it. I dunno if there is a heaven or hell, but there is a god.

CSflim · 11-19-2003, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The.Lunatic
yes it is, its just a validification that you've never given any thought to the subject, but are a pussy and would'nt want to offend a god if there were one, and you've been completley manipulated by society.

Okay that was harsh, but there is a god get used to it. I dunno if there is a heaven or hell, but there is a god.

Ouch! Crushed by your convincing and logically thought out argument. You really put us atheists/agnostics in our place!

Conclamo Ludus · 11-21-2003, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sledge
That is interesting! Could you describe to me what an agnostic Christian, Muslim, or Jew would believe?

I agree with Anomaly_ on this one. I know plenty of agnostic christians. These are people that may believe in god, but not be able to define him/her/it, or they follow the traditions of a religion in a secular way, but aren't sure if they believe in the more supernatural concepts of it.

I've read that this is not uncommon in Jewish communities although I don't know first hand. Judaism involves racial and cultural traditions as well though.

Finchie · 11-21-2003, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The.Lunatic
yes it is, its just a validification that you've never given any thought to the subject, but are a pussy and would'nt want to offend a god if there were one, and you've been completley manipulated by society.

Interesting that you should say that agnostics are completely manipulated by society. The same could be said about religious groups, especially since they comprise the majority.

But as for the original question, yes, I believe it is. I tell people that I'm agnostic. I lean more towards being an atheist, but I won't rule out the possibility that a god exists. I don't claim to know everything. I feel that there is very little evidence that suggests that a god does exist, but nevertheless, there is SOME evidence. Therefore, I won't claim that I am completely atheist, because hey, I could be wrong.

White Cluster · 11-22-2003, 11:33 AM

of course its an answer but you explain by reasoning that god can neither be proven nor disproven

Amarth · 11-22-2003, 12:12 PM

I'd bet more than a dollar that God exists. I KNOW he exists because I believe absoluely he exists. I don't need facts. Dyou see?

ebeye · 11-30-2003, 08:29 AM

Being agnostic is accepting that you may or may not be wrong about there being a God.

Yakk · 12-01-2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

I know I'm splitting hairs here, but I guess that's the point of this whole thread. Like I said in the first post, if you had to place a (inconsequential) bet on the existence of god, what would you bet on, yes or no? I understand that refraining from the bet altogether is a valid option, and I think that's what the definition agnostic is. But, if you're able to decide how you would bet in that situation, I think that would make you *not* agnostic. If you know you'd bet on god not existing, then you're atheist, and if you know you'd bet on god existing, then you're theistic.

So, if you think there is a 51% chance of there being a god, you believe in god?

If you are risk adverse, you are agnostic?

If you refuse to put any thought into an event that has a trivial impact, you are agnostic?

Hell, I'd make that bet, either way. I mean, you are going to tell me what the answer is, beyond all possible doubt? For 1$, find out for certain, have the proof at your fingertips!

Quote:

If you search your heart or soul or whatever you think you have you will find the answers that you seek.

Prove it? You have just made a huge assertion, that you can find the answer to a huge question by introspection. Not everyone works that way.

Quote:

It has nothing to do with earnestness though. It's a non-answer to a question about belief because your response is only concerned with knowledge. I apologize for sounding like a droning, broken record but I don't think most posts are rationally responding to Moskie's question.

How about "I believe I do not know what I believe."
Or "I believe that belief in god, or belief there is no god, are both unresonable beliefs. I hold neither."
Or "I think the question isn't worth thinking about, or argueing about why it isn't worth thinking about."

There are many interpritations of the answer "I am agnostic" that make it a valid response to "Do you believe in god?"

The fact that you can find one interpritation for both the question and the answer that makes it make no sense is a completely useless piece of information. This is true of basically every question and every answer for those questions, it is not anything special or profound.

doodah · 12-07-2003, 12:18 AM

i think ythat is a valid answer... i am agnostic and i dont know if their is a god or anythign like that.... and when people ask me i just reply wiht that same line im agnostic or i dont know....

Giltwist · 12-07-2003, 10:46 AM

Just to be punny, because i can, if you said "I am a gnostic," then, yes, it would indeed be a valid answer. Here's why, gnosticism originally came forth about the same time Christianity did. It was an alternate interpretation of what was going on with creation, jesus, and all of that. After dying out it was recently revitalized though I don't feel like looking up by whom. My beliefs are fairly gnostic, and here is what that means. Gnostics believe that some sort of divinity (often referred to as the demiurge) created the universe, some say successfully with intentional problems like "evil" others say that was accidental. Either way, what makes Gnosticism special is that they believe in something called Gnosis. By accident or by design, some humans, or all, depending who you ask, ended up with a little spark of something divine. This god within is a source of great wisdom and understanding for those who can spend a lifetime meditating upon it. Somewhat akin to the knowing body of chakra lore.

radonman · 12-09-2003, 08:22 AM

I honestly don't see the necessity of declaring belief or disbelief in a god or gods. Personally, my beliefs are more pantheistic, and don't accomodate the existence of some sort of separate guiding power. I can't really answer the question "Do you believe in God?" without the inquirer defining God.

11-01-2003, 05:06 AM	#1 (permalink)
Moskie Pure Chewing Satisfaction Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?	Is "I am agnostic" a valid answer to "Do you beleive in god?" This is most likely something that has been discussed before on this board, but I couldn't find an exact topic about. So anyway, I read an article that tried to differentiate between claims of faith, and claims of knowledge. It discussed how agnosticism is a claim of knowledge, and is not an acceptable answer to the question of "Do you beleive in god?" An agnostic is typically someone who claims not to know whether god exists, but the question is whether you beleive in god. I think it's an interesting dilemma. For a long time, I would associate agnosticism as my belief system. But, after thinking through this article, I've changed my answer to agnostic/atheist for the question of "do you believe in god?" (not saying just 'atheist', because I get some cold stares if i do ) So I propose this: Say you had to bet a dollar on whether god exists. The decision you'd make for that bet determines how you should answer the question. Thoughts? __________________ Greetings and salutations.

11-01-2003, 05:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	any answer regarding religion is valid. "i like carrots" is just as valid as the question that precedes it. (can you tell i'm atheist?) however, "i am agnostic" is the equivalent of saying "i don't know", and is a valid answer that actually makes sense. __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

11-01-2003, 01:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
GakFace Go Ninja, Go Ninja Go!! Location: IN, USA	Heh, I remember from some book of useless knowledge, that the word was originally coined by some athiest that was sick of being called an athiest, so one day he came back by saying, "I'm agnostic" But now it means you believe in something, but as to what it is? who knows. I think its acceptable. Simply because what you are looking for past that is what exactly do they think? Well if you believe in God, there are so many interpretations nowadays that you need more description from them. Even then you could get more description from an atheist, as "i don't believe in him" isn't always the reason either. __________________ RoboBlaster: Welcome to the club! Not that I'm in the club. And there really isn'a a club in the first place. But if there was a club and if I was in it, I would definitely welcome you to it.

11-01-2003, 02:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	I think if you wish to be precise with your wording, the only acceptable answer to "Do you believe in God?" is "define your terms". __________________

11-02-2003, 10:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
Killconey Crazy Location: Various places in the Midwest, all depending on when I'm posting.	To a yes or no question, being an agnostic is answering maybe. When betting a dollar that God doesn't exist, being an agnostic is betting on both sides while secretly wondering if its possible for the coin to stand up on its side. __________________ Look out for numbers two and up and they'll look out for you.

11-01-2003, 07:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	Yep...this is a person who believes there's something more significant, but at the same time is saying they are sure of the definitions. This is totally legit to say, better than defining it and then going around trying to force it on others or proving it. IMHO

11-01-2003, 11:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
Food Eater Lad Banned	Sure it is, why wouldnt it be? They are saying, there might be, there might not, but it really doesnt matter. Sounds like a fair answer to me.

11-01-2003, 01:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
Anomaly_ Insane	I agree that it isn't an acceptable answer. I don't think a lot of people realize that one can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic Christian or an agnostic 'insert religion here". Just because one states he doesn't know whether or not god(s) exist(s) doesn't mean he is obligated to NOT believe in a higher power. In general though, there don't seem to be many people who believe in god but question his existence. This seems to be why agnosticism often wrongly becomes synonymous with atheism.

11-01-2003, 05:20 PM	#8 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Isn't answering said question with "I am an agnostic" simply a way of answering the question without actually answering it. From the outset it appears to demand only a simple yes or no answer. If anomaly is correct to point out that agnostic christians do exist then it seems deceptive. If someone asked you if you ate meat and your reply was simply, "I'm a vegetarian," well, you're not really saying anything definitively. There are many vegetarians who eat fish, and chicken too. Vegetarian, like agnostic doesn't really mean much in the context of that question. Besides, why can't you just say yes or no?

11-01-2003, 07:13 PM	#9 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	If you want to ask yes or no questions about God, there is not really an answer that can be given. Perhaps it will be an invitation to further conversation, but a one word affirmation or denial of such a complex idea is what i would doubt the validity of if it stands alone. my policy is to not usually answer that question unless i have the time to explain my answer, simply because saying "Yes" or "I am Christian" leaves so many things out. they probably will know more about me when i decline to say than if i just told them the one word.

11-02-2003, 11:58 AM	#11 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	it is a valid answer because people do categorize themselves as agnostics. and if thats how you want to relate then so be it. __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

11-02-2003, 12:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
yellowgowild Psycho Location: Tampa	I'm Agnostic I guess. Since I don't recall asking to be born, I think I'll do what I want while treating people as humanely as possible. Then I'll see what happens when I die. If there is a God and he doesn't like it then he should talk to me in person right now.

11-02-2003, 02:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	If you want to get technical, you can draw a line between agnosticism and "weak" or "negative" atheism. Agnostics believe that the existence of God can be neither proven nor disproven, and live their life according to that. So-called "negative" atheists lack belief in a deity because there is no proof for one. (Contrast this to "positive" atheists, who believe definitively that there is no god.) It's a subtle difference, but it's there. I generally identify myself as a negative atheist and a secular humanist. The terms have come to mean roughly the same thing anyway. I have no problem with people who say they're plain agnostic. "Agnostic Christian" or "Agnostic whatever," though, is a contradiction in terms to me.

11-02-2003, 04:55 PM	#15 (permalink)
Aesik Tilted	If a question is asked that only has the options of "yes" or "no", than any answer that is not "yes" or "no" does not answer the question!

11-03-2003, 01:37 AM	#17 (permalink)
billege Watcher Location: Ohio	The question does not demand a yes or no answer. The person asking the question may, but that's different; isn't it? I believe the agnostic has the better answer than yes or no. The person that answer's "yes," has given up part of the capacity to learn, to grow. The person that says "yes" has said that they already know the answer, and don't need to know more. The person that says "no," is stuck in the same bind as the "yes." Saying "no" means also presuming to know the answer to the unanswerable. Saying "no" closes the door to consideration. The agnostic has left the door open. If god wishes to instruct the agnostic, he will. The agnostic is more willing to listen than the believer. The believer is listinening for what he wants to hear. Humans are very good at that. The person with his ears shut is screwed as well. The agnostic is the smart one. The agnostic says, "Hey, I don't know if there is a god. I don't know if there isn't one. Let me see what I can learn. When I die, I'll know for sure." __________________ I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

11-03-2003, 06:59 PM	#20 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	moreover, someone who considers him or herself practicing or faithful on some tenets may profess agnosticism on others. i believe in God, and in the gospel proclaimed by Christ. I'm agnostic as to what ressurection means, and what the exact nature of God is. I care deeply about these questions, but i'm simply with out the answers at this time.

11-03-2003, 09:16 PM	#21 (permalink)
empu Crazy	Embrace your inner atheist.

11-04-2003, 04:28 AM	#22 (permalink)
dragon2fire Junkie	i am a agnostic is a very good answer to do i belive in god it says i dont know and really who does know for sure wether or not god exist the agnostic does not say that god out right does not exist simply that they dont know for sure whats worng with that?

11-05-2003, 10:05 PM	#24 (permalink)
Jadey This Space For Rent Location: Davenport, Iowa	I often joke that I am an agnostic becuase I am afraid of committment. Is that a valid answer to the question about god, depends on if the person asking me that question thinks so. shrugs

11-06-2003, 01:06 PM	#25 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	If you take the precept that you must give a yes or no answer, then saying, "I'm agnostic" does not suffice. Additionally, saying yes or no does not necessarily mean you are an atheist or theist. As a gambler will tell you, you may not always believe that a team is going to win, but you may play the odds and bet on them anyway. I realize this is a simplification of the concept, but this is not a black and white issue. "I'm Agnostic" is an acceptable answer for the general question, "Do you believe in God?" You are simply stating, "I am unsure." As far as the concept of an Agnostic/Christian or other denomination, I certainly think it is possible. My mother was raised an Epsicopalian and was devout for most of her life. In her later years, she began to have certain doubts about the actual concept of God. She was very spiritual, but was simply unsure about God. She still, however, loved the Church and enjoyed services and being part of the community. She lived as an Episcopalian, even discussing her doubts with her priest and lived happily that way. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

11-12-2003, 10:12 PM	#26 (permalink)
taliendo Insane Location: an indelible crawl through the gutters	I think that its an irresponcible answer to the question. Just my lowly opinion, but allow me to explain. I was sitting in a sociology class a couple of semesters ago and the entire class was forced to answer the question of religious affiliation in a role-call manner. Most everyone claimed to be an agnostic, or atheist, or simple stated "I was raised Catholic." or "My Mother is Jewish, and my Father is Southern Baptist." Personally, I look at my peers and see an entire generation of people who have rejected organized religion, and not without good reason. The crimes the 'Church' has perpetrated in the last few hundred years alone would make the average person quite turned off. The problem is that the fundamentalist's actions simply do not align with their own ideologies. But I ask you this - Does that our excuse our generation from pondering the eternal questions? If you search your heart or soul or whatever you think you have you will find the answers that you seek. Personally I'm a Christian. I was raised Pentecostal, but I do not hold to their Puritanical Dogma. I enjoy Buddhism too, as a great philosophy, but in the end, its the Christ that answered those questions for me; I don't condone every action done in the name of Christ. __________________ -LIFE IS ABSURD-

11-14-2003, 05:39 PM	#27 (permalink)
meembo Junkie Location: Connecticut	"Is "I am agnostic" a valid answer to "Do you beleive in god?" Very much so. I believe the earnestness of anyone who says so. __________________ less I say, smarter I am

11-15-2003, 11:57 PM	#28 (permalink)
Anomaly_ Insane	It has nothing to do with earnestness though. It's a non-answer to a question about belief because your response is only concerned with knowledge. I apologize for sounding like a droning, broken record but I don't think most posts are rationally responding to Moskie's question.

11-17-2003, 12:54 AM	#29 (permalink)
Parabola Crazy	Of course it is. They way I see it being agnostic is a belief just like being aethiest or believing in god. It may not be as supported as either one or even as clear but that doesn't make it valid.

11-19-2003, 01:07 PM	#30 (permalink)
The.Lunatic Psycho Location: Somewhere just beyond the realm of sanity...	yes it is, its just a validification that you've never given any thought to the subject, but are a pussy and would'nt want to offend a god if there were one, and you've been completley manipulated by society. Okay that was harsh, but there is a god get used to it. I dunno if there is a heaven or hell, but there is a god. __________________ Proud memeber of the Insomniac Club.

11-22-2003, 11:33 AM	#34 (permalink)
White Cluster Addict	of course its an answer but you explain by reasoning that god can neither be proven nor disproven

11-22-2003, 12:12 PM	#35 (permalink)
Amarth Loser Location: About 50,000 feet in the air... oh shit.	I'd bet more than a dollar that God exists. I KNOW he exists because I believe absoluely he exists. I don't need facts. Dyou see?

11-30-2003, 08:29 AM	#36 (permalink)
ebeye Tilted Location: South Korea	Being agnostic is accepting that you may or may not be wrong about there being a God. __________________ "I've never understood how God could expect His creatures to pick the one true religion by faith - it strikes me as a sloppy way to run a universe." - Jubal Harshaw in Stranger in a Strange Land

12-07-2003, 12:18 AM	#38 (permalink)
doodah Tilted Location: somewhere over the fucking rainbow	i think ythat is a valid answer... i am agnostic and i dont know if their is a god or anythign like that.... and when people ask me i just reply wiht that same line im agnostic or i dont know.... __________________ sometimes.. we all just gotta rock out with our cock out and hang out with our wang out... its just how it is....

12-07-2003, 10:46 AM	#39 (permalink)
Giltwist Insane Location: Pennsylvania	Just to be punny, because i can, if you said "I am a gnostic," then, yes, it would indeed be a valid answer. Here's why, gnosticism originally came forth about the same time Christianity did. It was an alternate interpretation of what was going on with creation, jesus, and all of that. After dying out it was recently revitalized though I don't feel like looking up by whom. My beliefs are fairly gnostic, and here is what that means. Gnostics believe that some sort of divinity (often referred to as the demiurge) created the universe, some say successfully with intentional problems like "evil" others say that was accidental. Either way, what makes Gnosticism special is that they believe in something called Gnosis. By accident or by design, some humans, or all, depending who you ask, ended up with a little spark of something divine. This god within is a source of great wisdom and understanding for those who can spend a lifetime meditating upon it. Somewhat akin to the knowing body of chakra lore.

12-09-2003, 08:22 AM	#40 (permalink)
radonman Crazy	I honestly don't see the necessity of declaring belief or disbelief in a god or gods. Personally, my beliefs are more pantheistic, and don't accomodate the existence of some sort of separate guiding power. I can't really answer the question "Do you believe in God?" without the inquirer defining God. __________________ -radonman