Dano069

I hope this isn't a repeat post, but, I'd like to find out what made you turn against the teachings of your particular religion.

For me, it was the death of my father. I had already been questioning the Catholic faith I had been raised in, and when my father died, I got no clear answers from the church. In fact, the priests seemed most uncomfortable trying to answer my questions.

Over the years since then, I've converted to Lutheran (Missouri Synod, the Catholics of the Lutheran World) but have attended church less and less. I've read and re-read the Bible over the years and I believe God's message of love has been perverted over the years. I'm going to hell if I eat a ham sandwhich on Good Friday? I think not. There were too many man made rules for me. What does it matter what sex you are if you truly love someone? I believe the Bible is the word of God, BUT, is not the LITERAL truth. I was just wondering where the rest of you diverted your paths?

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lurkette

I grew up in a couple of different denominations - Assemblies of God, then Lutheran, then Methodist. When I was about 14 or so, I started reading the Bible cover-to-cover, and was disturbed by the contradictions in it, and by the mental convolutions it took to make it all make sense (the concept of the Trinity, salvation by faith and not by works, etc.), not to mention the way people used certain scriptures and ignored others to defend their bigotry du jour. I started exploring other religions and found that they all were just trying to explain how the world works and how to live with each other, and I didn't see any reason why any one of them had to be The Truth - it was pretty obvious to me that they were all man-made anyhow.

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CSflim

It was pretty much when I became a teenager, and began to learn to think for myself, rather than just accepting "common knowledge".

I was quite a religious child, in that I prayed every night, and did the whole confession thing, and was always careful never to "sin". I reasoned that these minor inconvieniences were more than worth it, for life ever lasting in complete bliss.
I could never understand the "black and whiteness" of the situation though...what does God do with boderline cases of goodness? How good did you have to be to be good? The classic answer is that borderline cases spent a length of time in purgatory/limbo for a length of time.
But that didn't sit well with me, given that this time in purgatory would be only the tiniest of fractions of your eternity in heaven.
Further more, I always wondered what was goign to happen to non-christains. I was good friends with a Hindu. It didn't seem quite fair that he would go to hell, just because his parents were of the "wrong" religion.
Well, it was reasoned that since he was a still a good person, he would go to heaven. Believing in the christian god, wasn't strictly necessary, just a "bonus".
But what about someone who wasn't a "good person"...what about some person who didn't know the difference between right and wrong? After all, we all know about how it is our parents who "teach you right from wrong". What if a child wasn't taught this? Would HE go to hell? Again didn't seem fair. The answer...he is sick, and God doesn't punish sick people. (More appologetics!)
Then, he seems to be at an advantage to me! He can go ahead and do whatever he likes, without any possibility of facing consequences, me..I have to play by the rules!
Upon thinking of these complications, I was lead to wonder why I believe in God at all.
The question is the same as why I believed the earth to be round. My parents had told me. But while, it was easy to see that the earth was in fact round, I wondered what evidence there was for God?
I could find nothing but blind faith, people believing the words of an old book, which constantly contradicted both itself, and modern science.

I came to the conclusion that God didn't exist. It scared the shit out of me. I had lost the hope of life ever lasting. Suddenly my existence was finite. I had to face my own mortality. Scary shit for a thirteen year old! I became really depressed, and tried really hard not to think of anything remotely to do with religion or death. It didn't work. Eventually I came to the conclusion that I had to accept the truth, or ignore it and carry on deluding myself. I chose the red pill. and I have absolutely no regrets.
It didn't happen over night. It started slowly, with doubts, until I then became "non-religious" or apathetic, then later I became a full blown atheist.
Since then, everyhting I have learnt and experienced has done nothing but to strengthen my conviction that we are living in a godless world.

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sixate

I can't say that I was ever turned against a religion that I once had faith in because I have never believed in anything ever since I was a kid.

Over the years I have had many people fuel my hatred for all forms of religion. Religion teaches hate. Religion teaches you to hate everything that your religion doesn't teach. Period! I've always been pissed on by others because I've never believed in an imaginary creature floating around in the sky that watches over everything, knows everything, created everything, and that has always been there. That's just a ridiculous thought, and because I've been getting pissed on my entire life from theist's I get extremely defensive and down right ignorant when someone tries to convert me. I fucking resent that more than anything. When people try to convert me the only thought that runs through my head is just how happy it would make me to beat the fuck outa the ignorant holier than though pricks! But since I won't do that I attack them verbally and make the fear me and I make sure that I live up to the evil atheist persona that they've already branded me with. I am all for people doing whatever it takes to make them happy, but don't expect your shit to make me happy because I don't try to make people believe what I do. Everyone just needs to learn to keep that crap to themselves.

I've lost friends and girlfriends because I don't believe in anything. What pisses me off is how people always say they feel sorry for me because they think I can't be happy. Get over your self righteous self! I am plenty happy, and in most cases I'm happier than any christian, and certainly more honest and trustworthy. Well, I'm just gonna shut up now......

Redlemon

My initial questioning was similar to CSflim's, but I didn't start as religious and didn't end up as athiestic; I ended up Deist.

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lurkette

I love it.

I was just listening to something on NPR about the 23rd psalm or something, and an atheist called and hollered at them for saying that you can only be comforted if you're walking "through the valley of the shadow of death" if you believe in God.

Having walked through that valley, I can tell you that there's comfort elsewhere, and it's more than a little condescending and presumptuous to say otherwise. (There there, you poor deluded child, you'd feel better if you believed in God.)

Hey, I just agreed with sixate

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

CSflim

Why is it that every new age religion tries to claim Einstein was a member of their religion? http://www.pantheism.net/
Anyway, I would sort of consider myself a pantheist, but I don't see it really as being a religion, rather an outlook on life.

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Redlemon

Not a founder, just a later adherent. And pretty old for "new age"; It was big in the later 17th century and 18 century. And it can't really be said to be "founded", it just is. Worship services would just be absurd.

RelaX

I was raised an atheist. My parents had both turned away from their respective faiths.
But hellraiser as I was, at night I would sometimes still talk to God. Then I got a lil older and I had my first funeral. Ever since the only times I 'talk' to God is to curse him.
But when my sister was in a car accident, the first thing I did was think about God, and praying for her. I guess, I'm just a weak coward who throws all principles aside if it could make a molecule of difference where a hurt loved one is concerned.

I am very attracted to buddhism though... if only it were a lil more accepted in the western world.

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CSflim

ok, "new age" was the wrong word. I was just making an observation!
Einstein never explicitly stated what religion he followed, as far as I can tell. (Though he most definately didn't accept any "organised" religion, or any god who performs miracles, or cares anything about human kind).

Anyways, doesn't matter...

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Redlemon

We're cool, we're cool. Just filling in the facts here. And nothing to get offended about.

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sixate

Bet you weren't expecting that. I hope I didn't scare you.

Psivage

I didn't adbandon my reglion I just stop going to church. The reason is I really don't feel I need a middle man to talk to God, now I have anther reason there is this married man who goes the same church as I used to go to. He is having a affair, he bring his mistress to church with him. And the church allows him to get away with it.

homerhop

I spent my early days in church trying to open the nuts that held the benches to the floor. That was about as much interest I had in religion.
At the moment I think the cathoilc church has a hell of alot of inhouse problems that they should be sorting before they tell me that I am a sinner.
When the stand up and admit they have problems and show that they are really doing all they can to fix these things,I might concider doing something about it.
As for right now me and God are doing just fine ...I don't bother him and he leaves me alone

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sixate

They let him get away with it because he probably gives the church cash. It's so typical it's not even funny. That's just one of many reasons i don't believe in religion.

ARTelevision

I always enjoy telling these stories.
I attended Catholic school and the nuns were a particular type of human I had never encountered. Of course, at 5 years old, my experience of humans was somewhat limited. But these medievally festooned ancient females were something to have a whole new dimension of bad dreams about.

I'll try to keep this brief. The most common things that occured in class were being pummeled about the head with fists, rulers, and chalky erasers by these wizened, bitter, and joyless Brides of Christ.

The more creative punishments meted out to me and my mates were religious in nature. I recall kneeling for hours before statues of the "Blessed Virgin". When the statue was an image of her Son, our arms were part of the deal as well. We'd get to hold them out for extended periods while getting whacked with a pointer - all the while being instructed to gaze up at the Man on the Cross and imagine how our indiscretions pained Him, etc. To really get that one across, we'd occasionally have to kneel on our hands during one of these punishment sessions.

Essentially, I figured out very early in life that if these evil beings represented this cult - I didn't want any part of it. And if they and their ilk were headed somewhere after they left this Earth, I'd make sure I stayed far away from there.

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sixate

Art, I never got it that bad, but it's just a perfect example of how religion=hate. BTW, that was seriously fucked up.

I'm like you. If there is a heaven, I'd much rather burn in hell for eternity than be with people like that.... But doesn't the concept of burning in hell just sound ridiculous too? It's so obvious to me there is no hell that I don't even worry, care about it, or give it a second thought.

ARTelevision

Well, six, it seems like the same type of mind that's thinking these things up in the first place. And yeah, ridiculous - if it wasn't such a tragedy for humanity.

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hiredgun

I don't think that religion preaches hate necessarily; for some people it can be a very beautiful thing. I think the original message has been grossly filtered and perverted by many people so that they only hear and obey what they want to hear and obey. ARTelevision, stories like yours piss me off, a lot. My parents grew up in Pakistan, a country where very radical Islam still exists despite a mostly secular government now, and they've told me stories about the kind of corporal punishment, combined with brainwashing, that goes on in many schools.

The way I see it, religion is (or should be, or originally was) mostly about respecting yourself, respecting others, and showing some humility; an individual is not the beginning and end of the universe. that's it. Unfortunately sixate and others are correct that hate is all that comes out of it much of the time.

boris

i have had 19 years of catholic education. (none of it repeated). i have read, been dutiful, contributed my money, volunteered, and now, since this priest scandal, i am out of here.

there is no fucking way any god would want followers to stand up, kneel down, stand up, recite, repeat, contribute, over and over and over and over.

it is classic psycho-cybernetics, or brain washing.

there may be a god, and as long as you don't go around fucking people in the ass (and i do not mean being a homo, cuz see, most people don't like it there) i think you'll be ok.

Lebell

Art,

That is terrible

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Moonduck

Utter, total lack of any feeling of belief whatsoever.

ktthequeen

When I had to see my grandpa die after a long grueling bout with cancer

When I was raped

When I opened up my eyes to the world and saw how fucked up it all is

TheKak

I was raised Methodist, and I strayed away after I started asking questions that no one in the church would answer (or actually they would get angry and say that I shouldnt question God/the bible/my preacher/ect). So I said fuck it and started down my own path instead of following an established religion, and I still change my views as I see fit.

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Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.

ARTelevision

Even here, we've done alright - without unduly bashing the faiths of others. We're telling our own stories and first-person accounts are undeniable.

This doesn't mean, even though our own antipathies may run high, that we do not respect the religious views of others. I imagine more than a few "believers" are reading this thread - with some compassion and understanding, as well.

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numist_net

I was never really raised religious. Sure, my family used to go to church every Sunday, I even sang in the choir. They were good people, and I still know them now. But on the religious side, I was never taught or brought up religious. My parents seemed to take a hands-off approach to parenting, which I have appreciated. This way, I pretty much developed on my own, getting into and out of trouble, and somehow turning out all right.

So, I have no troubles with religion, just a few of the people, but that is true for both sides of the fence. If everyone decided to listen to everyone else, then most of these arguments that appeared to be separated along religious lines would probably resolve themselves rather quickly.

Mr. Moe

I first had my doubts when I was really young. I distinctly remember looking up at the clouds one day (corny yes i know) and seeing those flat rippled clouds that go across the whole sky. I thought to myself that heaven must of been passing over. I then went inside and sure enough Discovery was having some Storm Warning! type show and it explained how clouds were formed..and well I thought it made more sense, explained rain and everything. Since then modern science/common sense seems to make more sense to me then blind faith in something that cannot be proven.

When i started to truely dislike organized religion was when I met my first fanatic. We met under the great circumstances of her slapping me to the group because I said "Jesus!" when I cut my finger in shop class. I then debated with her the stupidity of actually physically striking someone due to something so inane, and she pitied me and told me I was going to hell. Turned me off church goers.

Of course I also disagree with how the Church uses its power to further it's own ends. How it has hindered progress rather then help it (although monks helped us get out of the dark ages), and all the other historical blunders it is famous for.

Psivage

Yup, that is exactly why. Big donor to the church, plus his little slut is the Church secretary and treasurer.

anti fishstick

like any normal kid, i never liked going to church. i was actually pretty obnoxious. i remember singing as loud as i can, the plaques on the walls, to the tune of the hymn at the time (catholic church). singing the hymns was actually the only good part to church cos i've always been a musical person. butyes. i've never liked church and i hated sunday school. my parents pretty much stopped making me go before i was 10 bcos i'd protest so much. i didn't understand it and never bought into religion. then the teen years came along and i was lost and depressed (or so i thought) and my friends went to first baptist youth groups.. so i decided to come along too. at first, i thought it was really cool because it was something i actually felt like i was belonging in. all i wanted was to belong... and the whole god thing appealed to me because who wouldn't want a candy coated free from sin life in heaven when you die? still, i don't think i bought into it as much as i made myself believe. it was all pretty forced and fake. so the day i turned against religion for good was the day i realized... am i going to be happy with god if i can't even be happy with myself? i was probably around 12 or 13 at the time. i realized how the church was making god or religion seem like an external sense of salvation, when i knew that it all had to start from yourself. within you without you. i think thats really the core of religion anyway, but people just misinterpret it when they go to the steeple and follow the creeds. like the controversial movie stigmata, quoted from the gospel of thomas, "The Kingdom of God is inside you and all around you, not in mansions of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood and I am there -- lift a stone and you will find me."

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CSflim

That would be hilarious, if it wasn't so blatantly disgusting.

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woody1

In short: I don't think we will ever know, so let's enjoy life, be kind be good because it is to bloody short to wonder how it all began. I am so negative about the whole thing, it looks money driven to me, but I'LL listen to what people have to say only because I have a slight interest in how other peoples brains work. This world could be so good if it wasn't for Greed.

bermuDa

What did it for me?

reading the scriptures.

and listening to what was being said.

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fuzzix

I lost faith when I actually gave the issue some thought instead of just accepting what other people had to say to me. I was sitting in a train and it all just suddenly clicked: it CAN'T be like that! That and my grandmother who is ultra-religious, who while not forcing her beliefs upon me, showed me how misguided it can really make you if you get too drawn into it...
My distrust and dislike for people in general was also another factor, people lie all the time, try and twist your views, try to control you. I believe that's what religion was invented for, a way to control people - I'm sure they meant well, but that's no reason to lie.

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I'm most definately not 'lovin' it'.

Cynthetiq

many many many years ago... after being an altar boy... no funny business from the priests...

but I just didn't get it ... I didn't see how it all fit together, so I studied eastern religions and philosophies... I'm content with my relationship with a higher being.... don't know it's name nor do I care...

Art.... watch the Magdalene Sisters...

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BentNotTwisted

Being raised Catholic, it seemed natural to attend services and go through all the motions, sit, stand, kneel, stand, blah blah blah. Then I attended a friend's Lutheran church. They stood to sing and they sat to listen. That seemed much simpler to me, less complicated. Still, I attended services because my parents guilted me into it. If I'd had a choice I would have stopped attending in my early teens. It all seemed so rote. I attended religious education classes and I began to realize everything was being dictated. I had no lattitude in my choices of what I wanted to believe or how I wanted to worship. It was their way or the highway.
Everything came to a head when it was time to be Confirmed. In my parish teens were confirmed in their last year of High School. It was supposed to be such a big deal because it meant you were going to commit your life to the church. What a joke. I continued to resist attending services and my parents told me that I had to keep going until I was confirmed. After that I could attend services as I saw fit. Since I was 'confirmed' I have attended catholic services less than 6 times (even thought I'm over 40) and those times were only to attend weddings.
I think the Catholic religion is great for people who don't want to make their own decisions about how they will relate to a higher power. It proscribes things like divorce and marriage outside the religion and decrees you confess your sins and pray to Jesus' mother. That doesn't work for me. I have my own way of relating to God now and I don't need some religion to tell me how to do it.

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IS THAT IT ???!!!
Do you even know what 'it' is?

When the last man dies for just words that he said... We Shall Be Free

Redlemon

Anyone try the Belief-O-Matic™? Despite the joking tone, it is quite legit.

Apparently, I should be a Unitarian Universalist, although I consider myself Deist.

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sixate

I just took that test and here's what I got at the #1 spot.
Nontheist (100%)

I would agree with that.

Pheatius

I could not disagree any stronger.

Certainly there are those in the Church that are the 'mindless sheep' variety, but that can be said of any religion or atheist, deist or someone who ditches religion out of rebellion or peer pressure. If you are an adult and part of an organized religion, it is your choice. If you say you are only a Jew, Methodist or whatever only for your wife, mother or anyone else, you are lying to them, yourself and God (If you believe in Him). If you choose to leave because your values are no longer in step with those of the religion you previously espoused, that is also your choice and a choice I respect more than someone that sticks to a religion for reasons other than faith. If you are religious, it is your duty to always question and search deeper in your faith. It is also your duty to be true to yourself and to your religion. If you disagree with an aspect of your religion, it does not nullify the rest of the body of faith. If %0.25 percent of your clergy do evil or protect the evil others have inflicted, cast them out. Do not blame every Clergy and member of the church for their failing and proceed to ignore the good of those in your community of faith and the good your religion does. And to say that "the Catholic religion is great for people who don't want to make their own decisions about how they will relate to a higher power" means that you see nothing but a pretty building, a book with nice readings and place to meet singles. That is your opinion and perhaps your experience, but some people have studied the Catholic teachings and see them as a way to make their worship complete not because they are lazy or don’t want to have to think about it. Some people have researched the history of the Church (good and bad) and see it as the best way for them to relate to a higher power. It is not easier to be a Catholic in these times, it is harder. People have the stereotype that Catholics worship Mary, pray to statues, thinks they will go to hell if they eat meat on Fridays, thinks everybody else is going to hell and they don’t read the Bible. These stereotypes are re-enforced by bitter former or poorly educated in the faith Catholics (for whatever valid reason or not), who instead of searching for their own path of spiritual enlightenment, would rather complain about the religion they have left behind. Your experience may have been a bad one and for that I am truly sorry, but it does not reflect the whole Church or everyone else’s opinion in the Church. Some people study long and hard to be Catholic or make decisions as adults to convert to Catholicism after researching the faith for years. Once again, someone may choose to leave or join any faith for any reason without need to explain why to anyone and they may also express those same reasons to whomever they choose when and if they want.

All that being said (long winded, I know)...

I was also raised Catholic and began to question my faith in my latter high school years. I eventually fell away from the Church and became an agnostic. I saw no reason for the existence of a god and if there was a god, I saw no reason why he really needed me to tell him what a great guy he is, he should already know it, after all he is omniscient, right? I was quite comfortable with this belief for over seven years and my sense of right and wrong did not change nor did my 'values'. Around that time I had a 'Saul on the road to Damascus' moment that made me reconsider my faith. I will not go into that moment as it is even longer and tedious than this post, however I will say that it led me slowly back to religion and to the Catholic Church again. I feel that my faith is better for having left and rediscovered it again on my own. To me, it became the completeness of my spirituality without using it as a crutch that so many are blamed of doing. I realize that my religion (or any religion) is not for everyone. My time outside the Church taught me that my way is not the only way, just the best way for me (and a few others). It does sadden me when I hear bad things about my faith (especially when they are true) and I hope I can be a good ambassador for my religion. I am a Christian first, Catholic second. If anyone has a question about Catholics, I will try to answer from my own perspective and perception of the Church. I would much rather someone ask me why I do or don't do something rather than believing a stereotype that has not been true for over a hundred years.

Well, I will try to participate in the Philosophy forum more often. It is hard to post in here because I believe it to be the most personal of all. I would rather bear my body to all than my soul and it is hard for me to post a quick statement in here without seeming shallow or trite. (The same reason I have only lurked in the Political forum) Take nothing personally (unless I insult you by name and make faces) and remember we all have opinions, but only yours is right. (Or why else would you believe it?)

Hawkspy

I just used logic. I never really beleived in any god, and now that im older and wiser, i can see what religion is: just a metaphor to give people generally good morals. Too bad most people actually beleive the crap though. I think youre a stronger person if you do good because you know you should instead of doing good because youre told.

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Humanity was rising to the top." - Y'all dont wanna step to dis, Against Me!

Dano069

Another reason I quit was the elitism you see from religion to religion. I'm going to heaven and you're not. I got tired of the lies too. Ask and you shall receive. Didn't work that way for me, EVER. My disillusionment grew over the years and that was the end of it.

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