mac Daddy

As you can see in Christian churches a cross or as in Catholicism you have Jesus on the cross. The signs of the Crusifixion and what Jesus gave up for us. The cross has become a great symbol. More than that and idol that people worship to. Christians even pray to Jesus. One of the greates commandment of God is against idols. Regardless of what the cross represents no one even Jesus is above God. Until God says it's okay to have it as an idol you are against his words. Don't mess with the big man..
Any thoughts on this people...................

chavos

Again, i believe you are trolling...your question assumes its answer, and uses coercive language to make its point. I don't appriciate that at all. that said....

idol versus icon...

this was one of the huge debates of the latin/eastern schism. and i'll do a quick rehash. the idol is worshiped as a god made manifest in an object...but it implies control. there is a special ritual or something, and the god is believed to be almost obligated to manifest with in the object, or otherwise interact with the people. this is an offence to the theology of trancendance of the isrealites, and gets smacked in the torah, etc...

In contrast, the icon is meant to be an analogy. Like the bread and lamb of passover, or the booth of sukkoth, or the 12 stones in the uniform of the high preist, it is a symbol...a metaphor. it is not god, it is a way of thinking about God. God frequently is compared to everyday things, even in the old testement...and such comparisons are similarly icons.

Is the divinity of Jesus an affront to the proclaimation of the Shema, "o hear isreal, the LORD thy GOD is one"? Aside from my personal meditations on the subject of he is Jesus, Christ, or both...i think a strong case can be made that it does not necessarily do so. in the eastern tradition, the trinity is not meant as a artificial division of the unity of God. it is a means of reflecting on three ways in which God has made God's self known in the world. God has created, God has redeemed, God has come to dwell in our hearts. Or i could say God is the Father, God is the Christ, God is the Spirit. Trinitarianism is not defacto idolotry.

Ps: i think this is a worth while question, and am glad to answer, but i feel you really do need to work on how you present your questions.

TIO

Incidentally, Jesus is God. He is a part of the Trinity, and to worship Jesus is to worship God; it is not idolatory.

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Strewth

Lebell

Look up the words "icon" and "holy trinity".

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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costello

trinity = god ... jesus (god in human form) ... and the holy spirit (god within us all). all the same and therefore not idolatory.

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"They don't even know what it is to be a fan. Y'know? To truly love some silly little piece of music, or some band, so much that it hurts."

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Wyckd

JESUS IS GOD!!!

MacGnG

chavos: i am jewish and thats a good way to explain it, thanks.

ARTelevision

Well, I'm adding my two cents here - not really in the direction this is going, but somewhere else.

My thoughts on the crucifixion are not theological. I was introduced to this image at a tender age - along with my peers.

It remains incomprehensible to me how an image of a near-naked man exuding intense sexuality, coupled with the accoutrements of a bizarre and hyper-violent torture, is held up as a devotional icon which is supposed to instill some sort of positive truth about the ultimate nature of existence.

Personally, I see it as an ill-designed and wholly inappropriate image for any but the most brutal of existential truths.

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rogue49

True Art, it's an ironic icon.

"he died for our sins"
His torture meant our peace.

I've never liked this representation either.
It's very masochistic...and I've found many faithful taking their guilt to the same extent.

Jesus was a man of peace & giving, let him be just that.

However, the cross with Jesus upon it, has deeper roots.
It is a representation of the masculine aspects of life,
as the rose is representing the feminine.
These together are an Ankh, the ancient Egyptian symbol of life,
which is a representation of the sandal the ancients used,
and this symbolized the path that we walk in life.

If you take the history of cultures, you will find they have all developed from something else over time.
As humans used stories & legends to explain life and the issues they dealt with.
The symbols to represent the feelings & aspects of life.

Nothing is more true, than a person's faith.
A symbol representing emotion & meaning they take as they live.

This is sometimes pain, but you need to let pain go,
otherwise it festers.
This is why I don't like the representation of the Crusifixion,
it's a reminder of pain.

I prefer to remember the good he did, and the good in life.
It's a better representation.

chavos

one can look at his nakedness as being sexual, and i can't tell you that that isn't a possible interpretation...but i think that it's important to remember than the nudity was, at least by the Romans, intended to shame the victim. It is no necessarily a conflation of sex and pain, but of shame and pain...a mixture we probably are already aquainted with from our lives. The crucifix is that combination taken to its utmost reach. Jesus goes to the depths of the death world that we have created, to show us the way out.

Killconey

I have two Biblical examples which support the possibility of the cross being used as an idol. First, when Moses and the Israelites were wandering in the desert, they once again pissed off God and were struck with a plague of snakes. The snakes tormented the Israelites until finally God commanded them to make vertical poles with horizontal snakes on them (apparently an early draft of the cross in the sketchbook of God). The snakes left, but the Israelites began attributing the miracle to the poles rather than to God. They were guilty of idolatry with what started as one of God's tools.

Another example is Gideon's ephod. After saving Israel in battle, Gideon was asked to lead the Israelites as king. Rather than do this, he created an ephod (a many pocketed vest was the best description I could find) which would help the Israelites determine God's will. Once again this tool of God's will was turned to instead of God and the Israelites were guilty of idolatry. Both of these symbols were destroyed either before or during the exile.

So it is quite possible that the cross may be viewed now as having power which supercedes God. If that is so, than those Christians are guilty of idolatry.

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mac Daddy

Well If Jesus is GOD and you have the Holy trinity then your idol would be an idol of GOD. Exodus 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above". Does the ten commandments ring a bell? I have sinned just by writting the word GOD. It is an image. I have seen many Jews write it as G_D due to the fact that it is an image. No likeness and no false idols= NO EXCEPTIONS less G_D says different not us.

mac Daddy

Here is my answer to my ?. I was raised Catholic and am against their use of the Crusifix. I talk to Jesus but I pray to G-D. I have a crusifix of a man to remind me what he did for man kind. Not as a idol but like a picture is memory. "Thou shall have no other Gods before me". There are no exceptions to this rule in the New Testement. G-D is #1, Jesus #2, Mom #3. There is only one #1. Jesus takes a seat next to G-D, he does not take G-D's seat.

chavos

Look, if you'd like to posit to the autheniticy of scipture for a moment, let's take a look at the 4th Gospel briefly.

Alright. So, if Jesus appropriated the holy name as his own.... you do the math.

Mojo_PeiPei

G-D??? Is that God? If so I must say you are a piss poor Catholic. Jesus is the word made flesh, he is one of three distinct yet equal would be "God heads". The Cross is not an idol, you don't pray to the cross, you pray to Jesus, who happens to be God (cept he is Jesus ).

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Jasmar

The cross is an icon of the religion, but its not worshiped, Its simply something that allows me to walk in a building, see it and know its a christian house of worship, maybe its just me but I dont worship the cross I worship god