MacGnG

To paraphrase a post in another thread...
"Our only purpose in life is to bring glory and honor to Him, God."

I do not believe this is so; that would make our life as boring as it would be, if we didnt do anything for Him.

Rather than our ONLY purpose being to please God, I say it is to please everyone.

I think God would appreciate it much more if we did for ALL, rather than only for Him, Because "only for Him," excludes ourself...

marcusrbrown

"Our only purpose in life is to bring glory and honor to Him, God."

I think you are reading this statement too narrowly.

The Westminster Catechism begins with the question about man's chief end being that "Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever."

When Christ was asked what the greatest commandment of the law was, he replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

I think these two commandments are connected. Clearly one of the ways to love and glorify God is by serving one another. God has provided plenty of specific instructions for achieving both of these goals. In fact, I think it could be argued that it is impossible to please others unless you are serving God at the same time.

marcus

The_Dude

that's one of the things that our purpose in life is not about.

i think our purpose in life is to do whatever we want.

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sixate

I think I'm gonna go kill myself.

I agree with The_Dood.

Pleasing god has nothing to do with our lives. Even if you do believe in god you believe you have free will to do what you want. Unless god gave you free will with the restriction that everything you do must be to please him. That would sorta take away all of your free will.

Beltruckus

But also be accountable for our actions, not just do whatever we want with no consequence.

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Spektr

God didn't create us out of a need to be served or the desire to be pleased. God is a perfect entity, totally outside of the realm of human emotions. God created us out of LOVE. That's the only reason for living: love.

Anyone who wants more depth on this subject should read [U]Judaism in a Nutshell: God by Shimon Apisdorf. It is a truly fascinating book, and a very quick read.

Beltruckus

COMPLETELY agree with this statement, Love is everything

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MacGnG

Yes, do what you want without hurting others.

Have Fun, Be Safe.

Jdermit101

"i think our purpose in life is to do whatever we want.

I think that's why society is so messed up :\

anti fishstick

that is precisely the reason i started to think twice about religion.. when i was a depressed, angstful, pre-teen trying to find myself, checking out all these youth groups and churches because my friends went, trying to buy into the idea of god.. which really did seem good at the time.. i began to think about things for myself. what about ME? if god was so good, shouldn't he want us to live for OURSELVES first and foremost than for him?? why LOVE god and try to have a relationship with god when the first step, at least for me, was learning to love myself. and to me.. a good relationship with 'god' means a good relationship with yourself.

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Jdermit101

Living for yourself is selfish and leads to corruption. No where does it say not to love yourself.

MacGnG

that would be living ONLY for yourself.

mepitans

I 100% agree with that quote. But I also 100% agree with you. I will say why I believe in your post first. You are right that we shouldn't live for the idea of the "God" as a higher being. Above and judging everyone else. And that we should live for ourselves to an extent, which brings me to why I agree with that quote. To me, God is everything(and nothing). God is the base of what everything is made up of, but not everything is God, or devine. The higher up in development you get, the closer you are to realizing you are a part of everything and being closer to God, nondual, Self, Spirit, whatever you want to call it. As you develop more and more, you lose ego which takes away your selfishness. You are living for yourself, but you see others just as important as yourself, one, but two.

sub zero

You have soiled yourself by taking something out of context buddy.




That statement alone is linked to sooo many other things, yet you've failed to acknowledge (in your post) any of them.

If you were taking that statement for face value (as if god wasn't deep or anything) then I could understand your pov. That said, I understand your pov, given that you recognize that you ARE taking that statement for nothing more than face value (as if god wasn't deep or anything -seriously, he's god).

I'm under the impression that the source of this clipping is the bible and i'm going to assume that it was 'inspired' by God or something.

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bermuDa

I thought the christian god created angels for that purpose, which is why they aren't supposed to have free will. Trying to please a god through all your actions is living in fear of upsetting him/her/it, whatever.

If god expected us to please him all the time, he should be used to disappointment by now.

edit// and if we HAVE been pleasing him with all our actions, I don't much like this god.

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Jdermit101

There's a misconception that worshipping and glorifying God leads to a normal life.

It isn't about meditating your life away, it's about enjoying the gifts and pleasures he offers you, and rejoicing in the fact that the Lord has given them.

Worshipping the Lord can be as simple as treating others with respect and letting them know that there's something different about you.

jwoody

Our purpose in life is to reproduce and feed our children until such a time that they can feed themselves.

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Keg-o-Grog

i dont believe there is a mutual purpose for everyone, you find your own prupose for this life, while living it. and that seems to be to do just what you want, to obtain what makes you happy, and enjoy yourself, and what you feel is the right thing to do. we are not born as slaves destined to please a god from above. i do not believe in the christian god, nothing proves he or she exists, nothing proves "god" doesnt either though. you just define your own truth, and no one else can tell you what it is or what it should be.

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BullHazzer

Good description of free-will, choosing your own destiny. Free-will is a God given trait and I feel some of these posts have over simplified the topic. I have read more than one post giving the idea that if our only choice was to honor and serve God, our life would be dull and boring and restrictive. I have also read someone say something to the effect of how could God really enjoy us serving him. If I may I would like to try to convey the importance of our free-will and our serving God.

Imagine you were the master/king of a country. You have to groups of people who serve you. Group A serves you because they have no other choice. They give you the respect you deserve and carry out the tasks you set before them without grumbling and with out thought. They are, for all intensive purposes, drones. What do you feel about them when they serve you? Nothing right? You feel nothing about them because that is exactly what they are supposed to do. It does nothing for them and nothing for you.

Now there is a second group who serves you. This group serves you because they have chosen to serve you. They don't fear you, but rather revere you and hold you under a very high regard. They serve and give their all, freely choosing to do what you bid them. All the while being able to turn there back on you and leave whenever they want. How do you feel about this second group of servants when they do what you ask them too? How do you feel when they choose something other than you?

This is a simplified explanation of why God created free-will. He wants us to choose Him and serve Him out of love and reverence for Him. As we serve Him and focus wholly on Him, we find ourselves putting others before ourselves (aka serving others). And for those of you who need self esteem and think that putting yourself first will bring it to you, you are sorely mistaken. I know I feel best about myself when I have given myself to someone else as a servant and helped them in whatever way I can. All the while, serving God first.

"'Vanity of vanities', says the preacher 'All is vanity.'"
There is nothing good apart from God.

snicka

I fear a universe ruled by a god whose only kick is to have his creations beg and grovel to please him. *If* there is a god, I like to think that it created the universe as a form of entertainment (it would be boring being the all-being) and our job is just to live and enjoy ourselves.

MacGnG

"ALL" includes everyone and yourself, thats what i was talking about, ppl needed me to explain

chavos

That's by Irenaeus, and a very wise statement. Worship of God is not just bowing one's head in a church...the prophets make it very clear that the faithful are called to a life that reflects the value of those around them, for they are loved by God.
Michah 6:8

Pleasing God is fufilling the potential of our nature...living in loving relation with those around us, and with the source of that love. I don't call that groveling...

prosequence

Oh, what is your purpose?

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virus

i dig that chavos. in what you're saying, our only purpose is pleasing Him, but living a good life is how you do it.

i won't start a debate of the term "good life"...

i8one2

When not over-thought, bastardized or misinterpreted, why not?


I please my god everyday by being the best I can be and care about others as much as possible. A spirit I don't understand lives inside of me, I have flirted with death, and my time hasn't arrived yet. so in the meanwhile, I please myself and those close to me by understanding that we all have differences and cherish every moment of my life, and I also except the fact than I am powerless over my eventual demise.

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MacGnG

virus: our only purpose is pleasing Him, but living a good life is how you do it.

i8one2: I please my god everyday by being the best I can be and care about others as much as possible


thats what my idea was. it isn't everything for Him or everything for yourself; it's for Him thru yourself.

Respect for All is respect for God.

Spektr

I think many of you have strayed far from the point. There is nothing in this life that God made for us that speaks of servitude, groveling or pleasing. We are here to ENJOY the beauty that God has given us. Hate, anger, displeasure and anything that leads us away from love are MAN-made occurences. Adam sealed our fate when he and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge. Before that, Adam and Eve's life was nothing more than enjoying the fruits of God's labor and giving their love back to him. Adam and Eve were the closest to God that any human could ever be, and will ever be for eternity. Our own sin and the sins of others lead us away from God, dispariage us and make us believe that life is not worth living.

The issue of free will is reletively simple, but people seem to enjoy exploiting it to their favor. God created us, therefore He knows what we're thinking and what we're going to do. But did he plan this out? No. Did he at some point, sit down (metaphorically) and say, "hmm...on August 31, I'll make Spektr sit down in front of his computer and yack about Me?" No. God is a being completely outside of the realm of time, and untouched by any of the forces that we are affected by (because He created them). He sees all of eternity as one moment, beginning to end. He sees everything at once, hence, he knows our actions, but he did NOT plan them. We truly have the gift of free will, but God can still know what is going to happen. Afterall, He is God.

I realize that this is a very complex issue, and not easily discussed by most people. I might sound like some fanatical bible salesman, but rest assured, I'm a very devout Jew, and we don't believe in prostelytizing. This is how I feel right now, and right now I'm the most religious I've ever been. I was an atheist most of my life, and most of my life I've been unhappy. Now I'm considering becoming a rabbi. I enjoy talking about this stuff, so I hope it ignites some good conversation.

MacGnG

Spektr: interesting. i am jewish as well and believe similarly to what u say. but becoming a rabbi is something only you can decide to do and if you choose that, i wish you good luck and happy travels.

Asshole Lover

i think we serve god through living our lives and through our trials and tribulations throughtout the day. through the sad times, good times...we live and whatever god we have they recognize the best of us and our daily lives.

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skinbag

Interesting- Can anyone tell me what the original hebrew word in Genesis for "knowledge" is. Does it refer to mental activity that distracts us from the beauty of experience? Technological advancement? A sense of separation, what?

Spektr

Knowledge, in this context, is essentially anything that leads away from God. For Adam and Eve, it was a sense of self-consciousness, or fear of who they were. Before that moment, the only emotion that existed was love. Adam and Eve's actions released the emotions of fear, anger and hate, which all lead away from love, and therefore God.

skinbag

That answer jives with me. As a Zen student, I'm all for eliminating ego, separation, and self-consciousness. If I felt the presence of God, I would choose Judaism. I think it is the most open and comprehensive of the theistic traditions that I have run across. I love the reflection and ongoing review present in the Rabbinic training process and the Talmud. I apologize if I massacred or misused any terms.

Spektr

Not at all. I have a lot of respect for you for even trying to understand it. Most people don't make the effort.

MacGnG

skinbag: i am interested in this Zen you speak of.

the thing about Judaism thats different from other religions is that you are supposed to ask questions and wonder.
The Talmud is a collection of ideas and writings about lots of things by Rabbis.

i've been Jewish all my life and it just seems to work so good. every religion has some problems but Judaism is interesting and i like it.

Spektr

Judaism as opposed to other religions accepts that fact that we will never know FOR SURE what life is all about, but we challenge ourselves through study, Torah, and even debate, to find some way to make all the messes in life make sense in some spiritual way. We are constantly learning, changing and arriving at new ideas, but we never accept one certain truth.