What's the point of prayer? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Jesus Pimp · 08-08-2003, 03:33 AM

What's the point of praying if everyone has free will? How can prayer do anything if it won't control other peoples minds? Apart from maybe stopping inanimate objects falling on your head what other effect could it have?

Brdd99boy · 08-08-2003, 06:52 AM

God is perfect
therefore God does not change (if he is perfect and changes he is no longer perfect)
If God does not change then he does not respond to prayers

08-08-2003, 07:17 AM

Prayers are a form of meditation. When you pray all of your concentration should be with god, so, by praying it creates 'one-mindedness' and brings you closer to god.

When christian monks do those chants(usually the lords prayer) they repeat the same thing over and over again either out loud or in their head, to give them one minded ness.

Not quite like sitting down and meditating, but the same thing.

sipsake · 08-08-2003, 09:20 AM

I guess I've always viewed prayer not as a way of controlling someone else, but as a way of gaining better control over myself. External vs. Internal.

nietzsche · 08-08-2003, 01:36 PM

Most religious people (at least the devout ones) pray for the simple reasoning of building a relationship with a god. I don't think that they do it to try and change their life..or at least I hope they don't.

Tophat665 · 08-08-2003, 01:40 PM

The point of prayer is to create a common ritual to help people to identify with their religion. Sure, people pray in hopes of somehow altering reality, but the closest this gets to it is to focus one's attention on what is desired. This can have the appearance of prayers answered, though. Walk around for a week visualizing a quarter and see how many quarters you pick up. Seems like magic, but it's really just focussing the attention, which can be even more effectively done by praying to onesself, the only god that matters.

Jdermit101 · 08-08-2003, 06:33 PM

"God is perfect
therefore God does not change (if he is perfect and changes he is no longer perfect)
If God does not change then he does not respond to prayers"

That's assuming that there is only one dimension of "perfect" really.

rogue49 · 08-08-2003, 07:15 PM

It a way of getting through the pain & confusion of life.

hiredgun · 08-08-2003, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brdd99boy
God is perfect
therefore God does not change (if he is perfect and changes he is no longer perfect)
If God does not change then he does not respond to prayers

I don't quite understand your train of thought. Why would God need to change in order to answer a prayer? God doesn't "change", he simply fulfills his promise that he will reward those who build close relationships with him.

Memalvada · 08-09-2003, 06:04 PM

people pray because they have faith. However, who/what listens to them? Do their prayers get answered? or is it just coincidence?

John Henry · 08-10-2003, 02:35 AM

People pray as a form of displacement activity. If you have a problem that you can't/won't do anything about you worry and feel discontented. If you set yourself a task that you can easily complete: eating; playing a computer game; praying, etc. you gain a sense of having done something worthwhile and having achieved something, so the worry goes away... for a while.

Prayer has a double impact here because it also gives you a sense that you're doing something that will solve the problem.

CSflim · 08-10-2003, 12:06 PM

Prayer is a way so suck up to God, without actually doing anything constructive with your time.

sixate · 08-10-2003, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brdd99boy
God is perfect
therefore God does not change (if he is perfect and changes he is no longer perfect)
If God does not change then he does not respond to prayers

Your definition of perfect is way different than mine. If god was perfect he wouldn't allow people to rape, kill, steal, and many other horrible things...... There is no god. That's why people are just ruthless assholes who don't give a shit. God couldn't change the diaper on a baby. If there was a god he could change whatever the hell he wanted.

anti fishstick · 08-10-2003, 07:14 PM

i'm not religious and i don't believe in god. but i do believe prayer can have some affect on your life and others. prayer is thought. without thought, there would be no action. without action, there would be no change..

i believe you can achieve anything you want if you want it bad enough. basically, if you put heart and *feeling* into what you want. which i guess you could say, is a form of prayer..

hobo · 08-10-2003, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by anti fishstick
i'm not religious and i don't believe in god. but i do believe prayer can have some affect on your life and others. prayer is thought. without thought, there would be no action. without action, there would be no change..

i believe you can achieve anything you want if you want it bad enough. basically, if you put heart and *feeling* into what you want. which i guess you could say, is a form of prayer..

No... praying is a form of putting your heart into a task. Not the other way around. Praying came after people could think and set their mind to achieving goals.

anti fishstick · 08-10-2003, 07:40 PM

oh.. that's kind of what i was getting at w/ the second paragraph. putting your heart into a task... can lead you to what you want... if you put enough heart/feeling into it

CSflim · 08-11-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by anti fishstick
i'm not religious and i don't believe in god. but i do believe prayer can have some affect on your life and others. prayer is thought. without thought, there would be no action. without action, there would be no change..

i believe you can achieve anything you want if you want it bad enough. basically, if you put heart and *feeling* into what you want. which i guess you could say, is a form of prayer..

wow! someone's been watching too many Disney movies.

I agree that focusing on your goal is a very positive step towards achieving it, but what has that got to do with prayer? Prayer is about submitting to a higher being, and thus relinquishing some of the responsibility (pressure?) on yourself?

Try telling some starving family in africa that "you can achieve anything you want if you want it bad enough".
You SHALL go to the ball Cinderella.

Tonic · 08-11-2003, 08:02 PM

I think a better question is: What's the point of worship?

HeadyIncognito · 08-11-2003, 09:33 PM

I just believe in karma.

skysooner · 08-12-2003, 08:15 AM

I agree. I don't pray and when in church I'm not really worshiping. I go for my wife, because she does believe in prayer.

However, I do believe in God, and I do think that God speaks to us with what we really need (through events) and not what we ask for. My main problem with prayer has been the portrayal that it is to ask for something (which I consider to be selfish). On the other hand, using it the way the monks do (achieving one-mindedness) is a way of opening yourself up to your inner voice.

jimk · 08-12-2003, 09:16 AM

whether you think of god as the guy in the robe with the beard & lambs around him, or as a force more powerful than yourself - praying is a way to admit that you are not that force. it takes you out of your ego & gives you at least the amount of humility it takes to admit that YOU are not what rules the universe.

it's a start...........

Alchoholic Hero · 08-12-2003, 09:42 AM

I think it boils down to an inflated sense of over-supplication. Ritual, worship, and sacrifice are all generalized vehicles that are supposed to both a)make your relationship with whatever god you wish stronger, and b) proove your faith to whomever might be paying attention...since that seems to provide the basis for omnescience.

It's an egotistical act developed to get money by preying on people's inability to take control over their actions.

*ahem* IM-freaking-HO, of course.

MacGnG · 08-12-2003, 09:38 PM

"Yo God! What's up?"
*"I'm Just Chillin."
"Thats Cool, I'll Check You Later."
*"No Prob."

jimk · 08-15-2003, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchoholic Hero

It's an egotistical act developed to get money by preying on people's inability to take control over their actions.

so to you, any prayer i choose to send out to the cosmos is a totally selfish act intended to pad my wallet?

or the church (i don't go to one) is making money off anyone who prays?

i don't understand what you mean.

Arc101 · 08-15-2003, 09:59 AM

I pray for world peace, an end to disease and greed and for a threesome with Nicole Kidman and Gillian Anderson. Hey you never know, it might happen.

08-08-2003, 03:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
Jesus Pimp The Original JizzSmacka	What's the point of prayer? What's the point of praying if everyone has free will? How can prayer do anything if it won't control other peoples minds? Apart from maybe stopping inanimate objects falling on your head what other effect could it have? __________________ Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

08-08-2003, 09:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
sipsake Psycho Location: Memphis	I guess I've always viewed prayer not as a way of controlling someone else, but as a way of gaining better control over myself. External vs. Internal. __________________ When life hands you a lemon, say "Oh yeah, I like lemons. What else you got?" Henry Rollins

08-08-2003, 01:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
nietzsche Upright Location: The middle of a cold country	Most religious people (at least the devout ones) pray for the simple reasoning of building a relationship with a god. I don't think that they do it to try and change their life..or at least I hope they don't. __________________ Man is condemned to be free

08-08-2003, 01:40 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	The point of prayer is to create a common ritual to help people to identify with their religion. Sure, people pray in hopes of somehow altering reality, but the closest this gets to it is to focus one's attention on what is desired. This can have the appearance of prayers answered, though. Walk around for a week visualizing a quarter and see how many quarters you pick up. Seems like magic, but it's really just focussing the attention, which can be even more effectively done by praying to onesself, the only god that matters. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

08-09-2003, 06:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
Memalvada Psycho Location: South of the border	people pray because they have faith. However, who/what listens to them? Do their prayers get answered? or is it just coincidence? __________________ "The weak are food for the strong, so die and let me feast!" - Makoto Shishio (RK)

08-08-2003, 06:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
Brdd99boy Banned Location: kyle	God is perfect therefore God does not change (if he is perfect and changes he is no longer perfect) If God does not change then he does not respond to prayers

08-08-2003, 07:17 AM	#3 (permalink)
mepitans Guest	Prayers are a form of meditation. When you pray all of your concentration should be with god, so, by praying it creates 'one-mindedness' and brings you closer to god. When christian monks do those chants(usually the lords prayer) they repeat the same thing over and over again either out loud or in their head, to give them one minded ness. Not quite like sitting down and meditating, but the same thing.

08-08-2003, 06:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jdermit101 Tilted	"God is perfect therefore God does not change (if he is perfect and changes he is no longer perfect) If God does not change then he does not respond to prayers" That's assuming that there is only one dimension of "perfect" really.

08-08-2003, 07:15 PM	#8 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	It a way of getting through the pain & confusion of life.

08-10-2003, 02:35 AM	#11 (permalink)
John Henry Addict Location: Grey Britain	People pray as a form of displacement activity. If you have a problem that you can't/won't do anything about you worry and feel discontented. If you set yourself a task that you can easily complete: eating; playing a computer game; praying, etc. you gain a sense of having done something worthwhile and having achieved something, so the worry goes away... for a while. Prayer has a double impact here because it also gives you a sense that you're doing something that will solve the problem. __________________ "No one was behaving from very Buddhist motives. Then, thought Pigsy, he was hardly a Buddha, nor was he a monkey. Presently, he was a pig spirit changed into a little girl pretending to be a little boy to be offered to a water monster. It was all very simple to a pig spirit."

08-10-2003, 12:06 PM	#12 (permalink)
CSflim Sky Piercer Location: Ireland	Prayer is a way so suck up to God, without actually doing anything constructive with your time. __________________

08-10-2003, 07:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	i'm not religious and i don't believe in god. but i do believe prayer can have some affect on your life and others. prayer is thought. without thought, there would be no action. without action, there would be no change.. i believe you can achieve anything you want if you want it bad enough. basically, if you put heart and feeling into what you want. which i guess you could say, is a form of prayer.. __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

08-10-2003, 07:40 PM	#16 (permalink)
anti fishstick Post-modernism meets Individualism AKA the Clash Location: oregon	oh.. that's kind of what i was getting at w/ the second paragraph. putting your heart into a task... can lead you to what you want... if you put enough heart/feeling into it __________________ And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~Anais Nin

08-11-2003, 08:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
Tonic Upright	I think a better question is: What's the point of worship?

08-11-2003, 09:33 PM	#19 (permalink)
HeadyIncognito Crazy Location: PDX	I just believe in karma. __________________ Even Hitler had a girlfriend...

08-12-2003, 08:15 AM	#20 (permalink)
skysooner Registered User Location: Oklahoma	I agree. I don't pray and when in church I'm not really worshiping. I go for my wife, because she does believe in prayer. However, I do believe in God, and I do think that God speaks to us with what we really need (through events) and not what we ask for. My main problem with prayer has been the portrayal that it is to ask for something (which I consider to be selfish). On the other hand, using it the way the monks do (achieving one-mindedness) is a way of opening yourself up to your inner voice.

08-12-2003, 09:16 AM	#21 (permalink)
jimk Addict Location: Chicago	whether you think of god as the guy in the robe with the beard & lambs around him, or as a force more powerful than yourself - praying is a way to admit that you are not that force. it takes you out of your ego & gives you at least the amount of humility it takes to admit that YOU are not what rules the universe. it's a start........... __________________ raw power is a guaranteed o.d. raw power is a laughin' at you & me -iggy

08-12-2003, 09:42 AM	#22 (permalink)
Alchoholic Hero Upright Location: Providence, RI	I think it boils down to an inflated sense of over-supplication. Ritual, worship, and sacrifice are all generalized vehicles that are supposed to both a)make your relationship with whatever god you wish stronger, and b) proove your faith to whomever might be paying attention...since that seems to provide the basis for omnescience. It's an egotistical act developed to get money by preying on people's inability to take control over their actions. ahem IM-freaking-HO, of course. __________________ Suicide killed many... Drink, and the Devil, did the rest. -Hemmingway.

08-12-2003, 09:38 PM	#23 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	"Yo God! What's up?" "I'm Just Chillin." "Thats Cool, I'll Check You Later." "No Prob."

08-15-2003, 09:59 AM	#25 (permalink)
Arc101 Addict Location: Nottingham, England	I pray for world peace, an end to disease and greed and for a threesome with Nicole Kidman and Gillian Anderson. Hey you never know, it might happen.