Meridae'n

Here's a few questions for those more spiritual TFPers. I'm not pulling the piss or supressing anyones opinions, i've just got a few questions for you, and I'm interested to see peoples responses...

* Do you consider old-testament stories, like Genesis and Eden to be 100% percent truth?

* Do you consider that god or some divine power inspired or actually wrote the bible?

* Do you really believe in a heavenly reward for submitting to god in this life?

* Can you really rationalise how you can use a computer today, but still fully believe in an ancient and mystic tale?

If so, can you please expalin why, or why not. Your time is appreciated.

__________________
What's easier to believe: that a guy was born without sex in the manner of several Greek demigods and grew up to be able to transmute liquids and alter his body density yet couldn't escape government execution, or that three freemasons in a vehicle made with aluminum foil in an era before digital technology escaped our atmosphere, landing on the moon, broadcasted from there, and then flew back without burning up?

MikeyChalupa

* Do you consider old-testament stories, like Genesis and Eden to be 100% percent truth?

No. For me, they are in the same boat with Greco-Roman and Norse mythology. They're interesting stories and should be read, (Genesis has so much sex and violence that it makes particularly good reading, but skip Leviticus... VERY intolerant) but basing a civilization and moral system on them is ludicrous.

* Do you consider that god or some divine power inspired or actually wrote the bible?

No. What we call the Bible was compiled by men over many hundreds of years.

* Do you really believe in a heavenly reward for submitting to god in this life?

No. What a scam. And if you ask me, this is not the worst part of religion, but the saddest. It can not ever be proven that there is an afterlife, and that if there is, the system is the one described in the Bible, and not one of the other systems in other world religions, for example re-incarnation. If there is though, mine is gonna suck. I'm perfectly willing to bet eternal damnation on this life being it. If believing in a heaven where you will get rewarded for being good gives you hope and strength to live a good life, then that's great. But so many people deny themselves things that this life has to offer on a sucker bet.

* Can you really rationalise how you can use a computer today, but still fully believe in an ancient and mystic tale?

I don't believe. God's cheerleaders have been wrong way too many times for that (geocentric model, various exact dates the world would end, Oral Roberts being "called home" if he didn't raise enough $$). But here's something to think about. The Bible tells us that God struck down the tower of Babel because it was an attempt by man to work together to reach heaven, but also: "And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." (Gen. 11:6) Since you mention computers, wouldn't the internet, designed to allow the world to share information freely and instantly, and to bring us all closer, qualify as man's next "Tower of Babel"? Additionally, since the internet's stigma (partially deserved) is that it's a breeding ground for porn and child predators, why doesn't God shut it off, or why did He allow it to be created in the first place? Right, right... free will. Seems pretty silly. One of my favorite quotes sums it up:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?


-Mikey

human

Here's a few questions for those more spiritual TFPers. I'm not pulling the piss or supressing anyones opinions, i've just got a few questions for you, and I'm interested to see peoples responses...
Sure, I'll bite.


* Do you consider old-testament stories, like Genesis and Eden to be 100% percent truth?
No. Every group on earth, religious and otherwise has thier own creation stories, I see our ancestors from the cradle of civilization as no different. Some things from the old testament are true and verifiable, most are not.


* Do you consider that god or some divine power inspired or actually wrote the bible?

Inspired, yes, wrote, no. Furthermore, I have very little faith that what is currently in the Bible is an unaltered version of what was originally inspired. Basically, I mean that the core beliefs in the Bible are probably the same, they are too powerful to be altered without serious problems. BUT, using the bible to speak against homosexual individuals, hatred for other races and religions, etc etc. I think a certain dark power loves what is being done by so called Christians due to what has entered into the bible long after it was originally written. I mean seriously, if you want to corrupt the faithful, what better way to do it?


* Do you really believe in a heavenly reward for submitting to god in this life?

No, but the question could be phrased a little differently. What about a heavenly reward for being a decent human being. Loving one's neighbor as one's self more or less defines that. We don't know what happens after death, but is it really a bad thing to live your life helping and being kind to other humans in the hope that there is something after death? If I'm wrong, well, I made a lot of people happy, and I can meet the end of my existance with a clear conscience. If I'm right, well, that'd be pretty cool.


* Can you really rationalise how you can use a computer today, but still fully believe in an ancient and mystic tale?

Yes, these are not mutually exclusive. First of all, a story from the past being more or less true does not have any bearing on the current state of technology. Secondly, referring to 'mystic' occurances also says nothing about the physics in place to allow us to use computers. I think you are attempting to get to the point that if someone believes in these supernatural occurances, how can they believe in the physics that drives technology at the same time. (forgive me if I'm missing the point) This probably requires it's own discussion entirely, but to sum my thoughts : Mathmatics/Physics and by extension technology is just working with the rules of the universe, if we start talking about an entity that is not made up of matter and uses something other than energy, well, those rules are fairly meaningless.

Last thing @MikeyChalupa. I like. The only thing I would like to comment on is the last bit of your post. Except for the last of the four possibilities, free will can give an alternate answer. This isn't the discussion for here though, another thread sometime...

erion

I'm not going to go into detailed answers about the questions posted, but I will say that I take almost nothing at face value, most especially matters of spirituality and religion.

There are too many variants spouting too much crap at one another for any of them to be taken seriously.

If you read the old testament and then read the new testament, and you're supposed to believe that yahweh (the vengeful, stone them if they look at you sideways pillar of fire and salt god) and Jesus (Love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, sacrifice everything you have for your fellow man) are from the same source, and you can resolve that in your mind, then you have a better understanding than I or most people I have met.

My religious beliefs exist after a long and still developing period of study and soul-searching, and I accept them because they are what resonates within me. I wouldn't expect my specific spirituality to work for anyone else in the world.

Mojo_PeiPei

"All men approach me, so I recieve them. All paths... lead to me." Bhagavad Gita 4.11

Confucius said, "In the world there are many different roads but the destination is the same. there are a thousand deliberations but the result is one." I ching, appended remarks 2.5

Say, we believe in god, and what has been reveale dto us, and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismael, Issac, Jacob, and the tribes, and in what was given to Moses, jesus, and the prophets from their lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to God do we submit. Qur'an 3.84

And I (Jesus) have other sheep, that are not of this flock; I must being them also and they will heed my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepard. John 10.16

Anyone would be an idiot to take their faith at face value, thats just stupid, and they aren't true followers. What I wrote is an assortment of thoughts from four major world religions that sum up my beliefs. It doesn't matter so much what you believe, aslong as you live good and love others your doing good.

As far as the christian creation stories go, they are alright. the church (catholic) has come out and said they are old ways of telling creation, not to be taken word for word. But honestly what is so hard to believe about the creation? The fact that God did it in 7 days? Obviously God didn't create the Universe more importantly earth and all of its inhabitants in SEVEN days. But then again who is too say, TIME is a human concept, God exists outside of space and time... who is too say. Further more the church has found the Big Bang in accordance with creation. As far as the bible goes it is mostly a historical document. If you've read it however and cross referenced some of the stories ALOT OF IT IS TRUE, and alot of freaky shit did happen (by that I mean some of the unexplainable shit).

__________________
To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

chavos

* Do you consider old-testament stories, like Genesis and Eden to be 100% percent truth?
Nope. They don't really claim to be either. Gasp! The genre is clearly myth and folklore in much of the bible-the readers and hearers of the age would have known this. How we've forgotten is mysterious to me.

* Do you consider that god or some divine power inspired or actually wrote the bible?
Inspired, yes. Wrote, no. People find things out about God through relation with God, and so i would say it's inspired, yet falliable.

* Do you really believe in a heavenly reward for submitting to god in this life?
Not sure. I take my cue from the judgement scene in the Gospel of Matt. Those recieving heavenly reward are utterly surprised to be there, and that they are the chosen. If it is so, i will rejoice. If there is not, i will have found my reward in a life lived in relation with God.

* Can you really rationalise how you can use a computer today, but still fully believe in an ancient and mystic tale?
Ancient science has come a long way. Ancient religion has come a long way. They both have further to go. I want a faster computer, and i look forward to a deeper faith.