what are valid reasons for suicide? - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

BRS · 08-27-2003, 07:36 PM

I don't understand how suicide can be construed as a moral issue in a non-theocratic society. Can anyone elaborate why it is a moral issue to them?

Xell101 · 08-27-2003, 11:39 PM

Necessity. Desire. Your life is your own, whatever reason you determine to be valid is valid to you.

Quote:

as a moral issue in a non-theocratic

Religion is a prerequisite to establishing a moral code? I do not need a prophet to tell me how to live. Whether it be straight from the divine source or from an incorrect interpretation.

BRS · 08-28-2003, 07:12 PM

Wow, I don't think you understood my post, which was a response to the string of posts before mine.

trudes1131 · 09-05-2003, 10:37 AM

In a question such as this, personal faith plays the determining factor, I'd imagine.

Do you believe in a higher power?

If so, you would most certainly believe that there's a purpose for your existence. If said purpose does exist, then you must understand that there is a reason for your pain, a reason for your travesty. A reason why someone took the time to create your existence and everything that encompasses it.

With that in mind, it comes down to the individual's decision of whether or not they choose to ride out this viscious train ride of life. Despite the influences of our environment, I believe you are the only one capable of defeating your purpose.

And, to me, that is what suicide is. The justification for such action would represent a defeat of purpose, but more importantly, of faith. Something that becomes harder to hold onto as the obstacles placed before you weigh down at great lengths.

Maybe that's the challenge of the game.

krwlz · 09-05-2003, 12:05 PM

If it is not determined that you are already going to die, in a resonably short amount of time, (differant by case...but lets say 5 yrs.) and that you are currenly in uncurale pain, and thats its only gunna get worse...then ok, you can "commit suicide".

Or perhaps at that point euthanasia is the right term.

Anything shy of that? No, suicide it wrong. Personaly I dont care if you someone does or not, but any respect I ever could have had for that person vanishes, if said conditions are not met.

GrayWolf · 09-07-2003, 08:05 PM

Excluding a debilitating illness which not only degrades the mind but the body as well, I find no exceptable excuse for suicide. No practical one anyway.

Sledge · 09-07-2003, 09:06 PM

That's right: in a non-theistic world, we don't have a purpose. Suicide is therefore the ending of a purposeless existence.

Is it mean to people to whom you mean something? You bet. Is it wrong? Well, no. Then again, I think morality is relative anyway. People who disagree with me on that point are quite unlikely to buy my argument. Otherwise, I'm not sure how you couldn't.

I enjoy my life. When I stop enjoying it, I hang on to it in the hope that it'll become enjoyable again. If I know that it'll never be enjoyable again, why bother with living? To Finish What God Put Me Here For? Not if there's no God. Because It Is Wrong? Well, who says? Because It Will Make My Family And Friends Very Sad? Yeah, it will, assuming I have any, but I can allow myself a bit of selfishness when it comes to life-or-death situations.

Lunchbox7 · 09-10-2003, 07:11 AM

Arent we projecting our values onto someone else? The only person who they need to justify suicide to is themselves. It is their life. It is their choice what they do with it.Im sure it many would consider it immoral to go up to someone and say "Your going to work in a factory for the rest of your life". Everyone would say to fuck off and that they will make of their life what they want. Why is it any different with suicide. They are the ones who have to live with the suffereing. And thats what it is "Suffering". They have to cope with it every minute of every day, You can walk away from them when they give you the shits. They have no such option. They cant escape their self loathing.No one commits suicide as a get out of gaol free card. Suicide is seen as the only escape from the unrelenting suffereing. We also need to clarrify that feeling a little down today doesnt constitute depression. It is like walking into work with a headache and saying you have cancer. Depression is a disease. A disease which doesnt go away. Medication can help some people but often that medication is sketchy at best. This myth that people commit suicide as a permanent solution to a temporary problem shows that you dont understand. People who succeed at comitting suicide usually attempt it numerous times over an extended period of time. There are warning signs which are unconcious calls of help from the person. Previous unsuccessfull attempts are such a sign. they are trying to give the world every possible chance to let them know that there is a place for them in it. When they finally do succeed it has been a long thought out and well practiced act. There is nothing temporary about the problem. No release from the suffering can be seen and they have given ample opportunity for that release to manifest. Thus why should they have to justify their actions to anyone but themselves?

08-27-2003, 07:36 PM	#81 (permalink)
BRS Upright	I don't understand how suicide can be construed as a moral issue in a non-theocratic society. Can anyone elaborate why it is a moral issue to them?

08-28-2003, 07:12 PM	#83 (permalink)
BRS Upright	Wow, I don't think you understood my post, which was a response to the string of posts before mine.

09-05-2003, 10:37 AM	#84 (permalink)
trudes1131 Upright	In a question such as this, personal faith plays the determining factor, I'd imagine. Do you believe in a higher power? If so, you would most certainly believe that there's a purpose for your existence. If said purpose does exist, then you must understand that there is a reason for your pain, a reason for your travesty. A reason why someone took the time to create your existence and everything that encompasses it. With that in mind, it comes down to the individual's decision of whether or not they choose to ride out this viscious train ride of life. Despite the influences of our environment, I believe you are the only one capable of defeating your purpose. And, to me, that is what suicide is. The justification for such action would represent a defeat of purpose, but more importantly, of faith. Something that becomes harder to hold onto as the obstacles placed before you weigh down at great lengths. Maybe that's the challenge of the game.

09-05-2003, 12:05 PM	#85 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	If it is not determined that you are already going to die, in a resonably short amount of time, (differant by case...but lets say 5 yrs.) and that you are currenly in uncurale pain, and thats its only gunna get worse...then ok, you can "commit suicide". Or perhaps at that point euthanasia is the right term. Anything shy of that? No, suicide it wrong. Personaly I dont care if you someone does or not, but any respect I ever could have had for that person vanishes, if said conditions are not met.

09-07-2003, 08:05 PM	#86 (permalink)
GrayWolf Tilted	Excluding a debilitating illness which not only degrades the mind but the body as well, I find no exceptable excuse for suicide. No practical one anyway.

09-07-2003, 09:06 PM	#87 (permalink)
Sledge Pasture Bedtime	That's right: in a non-theistic world, we don't have a purpose. Suicide is therefore the ending of a purposeless existence. Is it mean to people to whom you mean something? You bet. Is it wrong? Well, no. Then again, I think morality is relative anyway. People who disagree with me on that point are quite unlikely to buy my argument. Otherwise, I'm not sure how you couldn't. I enjoy my life. When I stop enjoying it, I hang on to it in the hope that it'll become enjoyable again. If I know that it'll never be enjoyable again, why bother with living? To Finish What God Put Me Here For? Not if there's no God. Because It Is Wrong? Well, who says? Because It Will Make My Family And Friends Very Sad? Yeah, it will, assuming I have any, but I can allow myself a bit of selfishness when it comes to life-or-death situations.

09-10-2003, 07:11 AM	#88 (permalink)
Lunchbox7 Addict	Arent we projecting our values onto someone else? The only person who they need to justify suicide to is themselves. It is their life. It is their choice what they do with it.Im sure it many would consider it immoral to go up to someone and say "Your going to work in a factory for the rest of your life". Everyone would say to fuck off and that they will make of their life what they want. Why is it any different with suicide. They are the ones who have to live with the suffereing. And thats what it is "Suffering". They have to cope with it every minute of every day, You can walk away from them when they give you the shits. They have no such option. They cant escape their self loathing.No one commits suicide as a get out of gaol free card. Suicide is seen as the only escape from the unrelenting suffereing. We also need to clarrify that feeling a little down today doesnt constitute depression. It is like walking into work with a headache and saying you have cancer. Depression is a disease. A disease which doesnt go away. Medication can help some people but often that medication is sketchy at best. This myth that people commit suicide as a permanent solution to a temporary problem shows that you dont understand. People who succeed at comitting suicide usually attempt it numerous times over an extended period of time. There are warning signs which are unconcious calls of help from the person. Previous unsuccessfull attempts are such a sign. they are trying to give the world every possible chance to let them know that there is a place for them in it. When they finally do succeed it has been a long thought out and well practiced act. There is nothing temporary about the problem. No release from the suffering can be seen and they have given ample opportunity for that release to manifest. Thus why should they have to justify their actions to anyone but themselves?