fallen_angel

The problem with suicide is that to different people stress levels are different. thus makeing them think that their pain is to much for them to handle. I dont think that one person or even a group of people can determine what is right and or wrong. I know when I tried to kill myself I had severe depression and was in an abbusive relationship for 7 months. To me the thought of release was welcome until i woke up the next morning and the last thing on my mind was dieing.
I do believe in helping people that are termonily ill and are in large amounts of pain that is incureable.
But since my experience I feel that I have gotten another chance and although I am still prone to depression I have a greater purpose and I wish to help others.
Suicide only sounds good in storys and for the moment. in the end when you wake up you realize how precious life really is and how many people you are leaving behind that will blame themselves.

__________________
from the Havens I have fallen. . . to the earth as a mangled form. . . writhing in pain, my wings torn and bloodied. . . I have one purpose, only one goal. . . to find you and love you, for I am your. . . fallen angel

hiredgun

suicide is never justified. your life is a gift, cherish it, even when the going gets really, really tough.

Frowning Budah

It is my life life and what I choose to do with it is entirely up to me. Even if I choose to end it. That is my choice. Of course I am justified. Having said that, I believe people who commit suicide are not in their right mind. So the question is akin to saying are you justified in being sick.

Raisins31

This forum is horribly depressing. All you people need to go out and fly a kite or something cause life is too short to be worrying about death, suicide and pain.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~NR

WhoaitsZ

if you do not like a thread then leave. there is nothing more or less to consider. if it's too sad for you, go away.

MacGnG

considered but realized there are none.

papermachesatan

On a much smaller scale: If you're going to die anyways and you have two options: painful suffering way out(i.e. terminal disease, cancer, being surrounded by a horde of flesh eating zombies) or the quick, painless way out(suicide).

When you outright kill yourself because life just sucks, etc., I regard suicide as a selfish action because you're causing everyone else that knew you pain, all for the sake of escaping your own current problems.

Pennington

Suicide is a victimless crime in the same way drug use is a victimless crime. Sure, family members in both cases may be caused emotional grief but in the end it is the subject's choice and only has to be justified to them(<--singular they. Did I use this right? I refuse to use him/her).

What we really have to do is look at what the effect of suicide is. It is a deprivation of the suicidie's ability to further affect(effect?) the world. The same would be acomplished by becoming a hermit. To me, there is no major differance between being a hermit your entire life and never having human contact and commiting suicide. The outcome is the same. Think, if a hermit trips and dies at the age of 35 is it any differant than if he dies at 85?

So is sociaty justified in demanding that the suicidie not commit suicide so that they can benefit from their prolonged life? I don't think so. Therefore, any reason that is valid to the one commiting suicide is valid enough. In the end, only the one making the decision has any say.

webfiend

Even though that wasn't the topic of the thread, that's a fair comment, and reasonable in the context. I think Raisin31's answer to the question of justifiable suicide would be sort of a "no"

As far as my own opinion ....

This is a profoundly personal and subjective issue. For me, there is no justification for suicide. That's for me, not for the person suffering from cancer who only wants to end their pain, or the victim of years of abuse who wants some way to escape the fear, hatred, and self-loating. I have looked this issue pretty much head-on, since I tried to kill myself about a year and a half ago. I did it basically because I was very depressed and angry about where my life was, and unable to think my way through to see any solutions. The split second I saw blood, though, my immediate thought was "What the fuck did I do that for?" Thankfully, 911 was called, doctors patched me up, some time was spent in a mental ward, and I'm not much worse for the wear.

The best thing about that whole mess was the simple fact that I know I want to postpone my death for as long as possible. It's a good tidbit to know when you are having troubles and feeling otherwise

Lebell

I always keep a single bullet left for suicide in case of flesh eating zombies...

__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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vegeta0283

none..... it is the way out for the weak... sorry to be harsh just my own opinion..... basically what we all ask for when we post

papermachesatan

I take it that you're a fan of george romero's movies too?

roggers

i.m.o. suicide could never be justified simply for the fact that there should never be a reason to take your own life....i look at life as an enternal video game....no matter what happens , how many times ur hurt getting to the end is the ultimate victory...shutting it off in the middle is just pussy style , deal with what you have to deal with and fight life till it kills you rather then you make the job easy for it!

__________________
"one of a kind"

Technomage

none, no discussion necessary

Fallon

k, so have any of the people been close enough that they have almost taken their own life? Will the answer still be the same, or will they still maintain that "it's the pussy thing to do." That's a disrespecting answer for a serious question. I think if you want to say that it's not the way to go, say that way is, to me, not the way to go because of whatever reason. I don't think you have any right to say someones suicidal actions are "pussy." I think it actually would take more guts to end their own life then for others to criticize their actions.

voidfiles

I think that back in the day, a culturaly just reason for sucide was being a disgraced smurail

deadbabiesrhot

gotta have:

fucked up brain,

fucked up body,

no money,
no genitalia,
no chance at life.


or just be really sad. it doesnt matter. suicide doesnt have to be "justified." its pretty much takes care of itself, dont ya think?

Mantus

I would say that suicide as a permanent solution to life’s temporary problems is an armature act. As there is no deep thought to the act. Its just a instinctive response to pain that we feel. Its really quite an abomination, instinct killing the mind.

On the other hand, suicide as a conscious decision to end ones life just to find out what’s on the other side is a totally reasonable action in my opinion.

For life has no meaning. The only reason for any of us to keep going is to see what happens next. Like an interactive movie or a game. Our minds get a chance to see this world and enjoy it for all its good and bad, love and hate, and all the other experiences we go though. Suicide is simply us walking out of the theater in the middle of the movie.

But, it is a gamble. For one thing we cant be sure of what happens when we go over the stars. It could be less entertaining for all we know. Or worse, there could be nothing and this life could be the only time that we get to exist. But as life has no significance in the first place, this doesn’t matter. Life, if viewed from the appropriate perspective is as hollow as nothingness.

The ultimate dilemma lies in the matter of the soul. A wise man once said that one has to earn one’s soul. This just may have some truth. If so, suicide can be a ticket out of existence. Which is of course a rather unpleasant circumstance. It is this uncertainty that prevents many of us from committing the ultimate taboo.

The reason I wont do it is because if find life much to interesting and entertaining. I got a free ticket so I might as well enjoy the show. There is no going back once you are though the door and in the end we all walk though it. I prefer to stick around till the credits roll by.

Zeld2.0

This is a very very subjective matter. Some people will staunchly say that there is absoltutely no validity for suicide. Others will say there is.

IMO its a matter of upbringing, traditions, culture, and what not.

For instance, in Japan, the code of bushido, the warrior code (i guess one could compare it to chivalry for knights though not really) - if one lost his honor and shamed his family the only way to reclaim it was to perform seppuku (sp?) - ritual suicide.

In Japan it was long accepted to kill ones self rather than disgrace the family. And the last war the Japanese were in, WW2, it was a very common thing - banzai charges and holding out to the last man. It was so foreign to our soldiers that they seemed wacko - yet in Japan it was the way for as long as they could remember.

So culture and tradition takes a big part of it.

For me, personally, there is no valid reason. I will always fight even if there is little chance. but there is still chance and i'll do it. I won't give in even if i know i have to die.

Recently a senior at a school nearby where I live killed himself in front of everyone at lunch because his former-gf or something wouldn't go to prom with him.

So great, you had problems with your family and was on the verge of moving out. But I betcha your parents cared and guess what, now they are crying and suffering in sorrow for the rest of their lives because you did an act to get attention or because you ewre rejected and felt you were too good not to be.

What will your little brother say when his friends go to your house years later and look at pictures.

"Who's that?"

"My brother."

"What happened to him?"

What will he say then because you chose your way.

josobot

I agree with Zeld2.0...I have a picture of my sister in her mid 20's on the wall...I almost never say what happened...her note was rather meaningless...she had made a conscious effort to justify an estrangement from each in the family...I think the problem is one of vanity...afraid to be just ordinary...I'm sure some drugs and a bad marriage didn't help...but like Nietzsche says, sometimes you just have to change yourself (a very Christian idea) and that can be humbling. Suicide is often defiant...an I will not change statement...a trivialized vanity...if you believe in something, you live for it and if it just might not be as worthwhile as you thought...you change yourself.

butthead

Any reason is valid.

oldman2003

These are just my opinions: Some of us let our emotions control our lives. Self pity (just one avenue for suicide) and emotional pain can be just as real as physical pain. My former mother in law tried repeatedly to kill herself. She finally did it. I have thought about it. I had a really good cure happened to me: My oldest brother got leukemia. We all test for stem cell transplant. My sister was the closest match. To make a long story short, he has the worst case of graph verses host disease the doctors at MSU have ever seen. Her cells are trying to kill his and take over his body. He shames me with his attitude on life. I have never heard him complain. For three years he has been in the most unbearable pain and agony. He always is polite and courteous.

I was blessed to have to bring him to the hospital for chemo and stay and care for him for a week. I was shamed. I was shamed watching the children in the cancer ward. I was shamed watching those innocent souls fight for their lives and still bless me with a smile. I believe the strongest force in living is self preservation.

I still think of my useless life and at times want to end it because living gets so hard. I am old enough and wise enough to swallow my pride and seek help. I do this every couple of years. If you ever really want to kill yourself, please just take an hour of your life and visit the children in a cancer center of any hospital. Those saints will shame you for your thoughts just by a healing glance. Thank you for listening.

Menoman

The people that are being completely closed minded..

I'd like to see you have to watch your grandfather in a bed barely able to speak trembling of fear and then dying right in front of your face. All after 3 months of suffering in the hospital bed.

I can promise you, you wouldnt be so closed minded.

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Stiltzkin

I like to think of this issue in terms of science. Say everyone with disease X was suddenly killed off because they were suffering too much. What then? What about the research that was going in involving X disease? What if it suddenly resurfaces one day? What then? Just let it spread and do its damage again? Sure, you may know someone who suffered every single day until they died, and you may have been there 24/7 to see them suffer should not be sufficient to make you think that suicide is okay. Also, recall what Mr. Lincoln said!!!

"The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to
deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just." -
Abraham Lincoln

See!! Gotta keep fighting, god damn it! Don't kill yourself, or you will just send out a message of cowardism. Fight to the bitter end and people will remember you for how fucking tough you were! What isn't respectable about that?

__________________
The most important thing in this world is love.

Fallon

That's something you can live by, and all the more power to you, myself, if I were in a different situation and my life was worse, I don't think I'd follow that. Cowardism is a personal opinion I think. For some people, someone who commits suicide might be more brave then someone who fights through it all.

Menoman

I understand the opinion, and to a point I agree with you, but as you can see on this thread, there are probably more people who will take the route of suffering for a few years than the quick way out.

Thats where your scientists can study.

I believe the option should be there.

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rainheart

Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis.

My friends stepdad had that. If I was diagnosed with it I'd live my life to the fullest for a few months and then suicide.

Edit: linky- http://my.webmd.com/content/healthwise/96/23784

em1014

If a person feels whatever enough to want to kill themselves... then it shouldn't be anyone else's concern... it shouldn't have to be debated or against the law... I have had many friends in which I am glad have not succeeded suicide but on the other hand have had friends that did succeed. I feel bad/sad/?? for myself when that happens but I do not feel bad for them. I am happy because they finally got what they had been wanting for so very long. I think suicide is not necessarily the smartest choice for those who only are upset about something small.. or when they are young and inexpierenced.. but who is to say what is small and who is "young"?

hobo

Well, I wouldn't commit suicide. If someone else wanted to, they probably would. Any reason is reason enough if the person thinks it is. We all live in different worlds, see different things, think different thoughts. What you see as wrong, someone else may see as right.

gt6808a

Suicide could be considered selfish because the people that care about you will be grief-stricken. But it seems to me that it's still a personal decision. If life is so painful for you that you can't see continuing on, and you see nothing better in your future, then why would you continue?

Sorry, I struggle with it almost daily because in my personal life I just don't see the "beauty" of it that everyone talks about. However, because of certain obligations I have in my life and because of people that are right now depending on me, I can't do anything about it. But if I DID decide to take action, I don't see that being anyone's decision but my own.

Moonduck

I can understand the "15 year old brother of a friend" example. I have a wife and two kids. If they were... I refuse to even type out such a thing. Suffice to say that I would make the deepest and most heartfelt apology to my family and friends and then I would take the "permanent solution".

Much like a person with a terminal disease, incredible pain, etc, such a circumstance would utterly and permanently remove my need for further existence. As such, I can easily see why that unfortunate young man made the choice he did.

In the end, it is the choice of the individual. I can certainly understand society's abhorrence of the deed, but suicide is the ultimate act of self-determination. If we, as a society, truly respect personal property rights, we should also respect the decision to suicide. Telling a 93 year old man dying of cancer that he is not allowed to end his own suffering is, to me, ludicrous.

It's your life.

Jonnymax

Thank you very much for stating this, I am however very disappointed with the number of responses I had to read before I came to the statement you made.

Anyone who calls suicide selfish is a hypocrite in my eyes. Everyone dies, and to say that someone shouldnt die when they want to, how they want to, because YOU might not like it is crap.

mr sticky

Where there is life there is hope.

In death there is only...?

But as in everything, perception is reality. And some can't see past the pain.

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The sad thing is... as you get older you come to realize that you don't so much pilot your life, as you just try to hold on, in a screaming, defiant ball of white-knuckle anxious fury

gobman

any reason can be justified, as long as there's noone to miss you

__________________
Please, talk to me, I have serious father issues.

MacGnG

if someone is on life support, and the bag runs out (i dunno how it works); it doesn't need to be to refilled if there is NEVER a chance of recovery.

Shpoop

i think that 10 times out of 10, if you stick with the person and get them to stick with themselves, they will be happy they did

you only get one chance at this life

RNW

.. eee - just to see how it looks on the other side ?

Life is bearable and somewhat painless to most people. But as only one in a million is superhappy, so is one in a million a sufferer. Physical pain, real or imagined; sadness, depression, hating the everyday actively...

The average human being has a set of automatic protection methods. Fantasy helps survive boredom, an otherwise lethal form of frustration.. Stress can be controlled by escaping into fantasy or directing one's concentration into art or entertainment. Also denying the truth: "Not true not true not true not MY daddy.." and even blocking tragical events out of one's memory is not just possible, but in constant use among the lucky average.

And - anyway, it is the chemical balance in our brain that determines how happy we FEEL or how devastated, and not the events that really happen to us. Events, tragic or fantastic, cause different reactions in different people's heads.

DO I HAVE A POINT AT ALL ? Yep. There are people whose brain protection mechanisms are not shielding them efficiently enough against reality. And there are people who suffer, however fantastic a life with baths in pink shampagne.

I understand with compassion if a sufferer decides not to wait untill they get out naturally. But sadly, giving up transfers a life-long depression into the family members. People who are not counting seconds and breaths day and nite, hoping all would end, can never understand. Just like I can not understand anyone who doesn't RUN every time they see a hotdog stand.

Marius1

Are there instances where it is justifyable to take one's own life??

I think so yes.

example 1. Someone is trying to get information out of you that would led to the deaths of millions (or maybe just 1 loved one). Is killing yourself to prevent this ever occuring justified? I think maybe so.

example 2. Is the lots of pain going to die anyway senario thats already been covered. I believe the person has the right to choose whether their quality of life if suffient enough to carry on with.

itchy93

That seems to be oversimplifying things, no?

Suicide is definitely a personal thing. I believe there are justifiable situations. I am a firm believer that, yes, most things in life are temporary, no matter how painful, sad, unpleasant... all things must pass. But for some unfortunate people, there is a point when they have to ask, "how much is enough?"

I tried to kill myself when I was 14; I was just unhappy with my life. Nothing ever made me happy, and my life seemed to be an endless cycle of disappointments, regrets, and sorrow. Obviously, I was unsuccessful.

Four years later, my life is still an endless cycle of disappointments, regrets, and sorrow. But I still hold on to hope. I still have so many years ahead of me for things to get better. I do find myself thinking about it on occasion, though. Life just seems too overwhelming sometimes, and it seems like nothing will ever be good enough to compensate for the misery I've endured. I'm completely disillusioned with life, and I don't see much of a reason to go on, but I do. Because of hope.

I guess I'm trying to say that, in the absence of hope-- when you really feel like things cannot get better-- suicide is justifiable. I don't have any religious oppositions to it, so I believe it is a personal decision.

Itchy93

TaLoN

1. if you cannot contribute to society equal to that of a perfectly healty human being.
2. if you want to
3. if you like sleeping but hate waking up