the atheist spirit ...? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

boink · 10-01-2009, 11:21 PM

personally I'm not sure where I stand on the concept of a god, ghosts past lives etc. but I strongly lean towards a logical perception of the world ala atheism. but there's a major part of human experience, -perception-? that atheism doesn't address.

I can't keep from thinking while reading atheist/theist posts, humans aren't vulcans. what in atheism helps (not sure if that's the right word) one make sense of there emotional response to the world and the events of life or in society ?

like the depth of sadness from the loss of a loved one, a war or natural disaster ?
or the wonder of nature. I mean, like say your watching a nature show and and some animal, like a bear or whatever is shown doing they're thing, and you think wow, nature is amazing, a theist may think wow, god is amazing, but whatever you call it I have experienced a "welling up of emotion" and even a tear just in wonder and love for wild animals, mountains etc.

yes I've been watching some of Ken Burns National Parks.

but I guess my main question is, in my assessment, human emotions have a huge pull on how they view the world, so how does atheism help sort out these emotions.

Willravel · 10-01-2009, 11:49 PM

Atheism is simply a lack of a particular belief. It doesn't preclude irrationality, emotional responses, or much of anything else. I'm an atheist, I try to be rational, but I make mistakes all the time. I've even been known to do some irrational things. I try not to, but I have biases. It's generally speaking a normal part of the human condition.

You have to address these things for yourself, I suppose.

boink · 10-02-2009, 12:26 AM

I don't think it's always a mistake to trust an emotional response though.

I realise atheism is belief there is no god and I would assume anything spiritual or maybe supernatural..? when I read posts on this I get the feeling each belief system is trying to persuade the other. but it seems to me atheism has this big hole in it that dosn't provide any framework for people to resolve the emotional aspect of life. making it not very attractive to those with a particularly strong emotional reactions. addressing one's grief, rage, wonderment "for yourself" isn't really a concept that will bring people together.

Xerxys · 10-02-2009, 12:34 AM

I'm illiterate so naturally I also have a question. As of the phrase "Humans are not Vulcans", does anyone think that a human being (normal human being) can be raised and taught from an early age to become perfect. I don't mean GI-Joe perfect I mean in thinking and actions. Be completely disconnected from emotions..., like Dexter (Although he has a strong urge to kill) ... but also not make mistakes (or have actions, for lack of a better word) common to normal people compelled by feelings?

boink · 10-02-2009, 01:12 AM

no I don't think so. I think you could try and teach the concept. but I think removing emotions from humans my be moving away from 'perfection' rather than towards it.

filtherton · 10-02-2009, 07:45 AM

I think that you shouldn't make the same mistake that a lot of atheists seem to make, which is to confuse atheism with rationality. I concur with will.

LanSnake · 10-02-2009, 08:05 AM

Twenty years ago I more identified with the agnostic and/or atheistic viewpoint. Since then, over the last four to five years I've been practicing Zen / Chan Buddhism which does not dwell on the concept of God / No God. The Zen position is that this question can not be productive and so it is not necessary to have your mind spin in circles trying to find the answer.

I wanted to jump into this thread to make the observation that Buddhism directly looks at the human condition; emotions; compassion; wonder and how you can live your life to minimize problems while being fully aware of these conditions and problems that occur in every human life.

So the central question in this thread seems misplaced, as I don't think the atheistic view is meant to "fill a void" after you leave behind the concept of God. It's just the opposite position of the person who believes in God. You cannot remove emotions -- they are part of being alive.

Alan

Raghnar -ITA- · 10-02-2009, 02:49 PM

Atheist doesn't mean completly rational, in fact no-one is that.
Atheist literally mean that you don't believe in any superior god, in fact also buddhist are atheist (or agnostics, depending on the type) from that point of view.
I believe that not exist nothing such spirits or supernatural manifestation, in fact the world "supernatural" itself sound to me like a big fat oxymoron: if is in nature it cannot be super-nature. If is in nature then science can study it, and learn from it, can be not rational but it IS, HERE and NOW.

Then this pragmatical approach doesn't stop me to be VERY emotional, romantic and so on.

Where I find confort in the tragedy of life? In friends, other people, rationality itself, I feel that lying to me isn't the right way to confort myself.
I done it for a time, but it was Wrong, talking to myself pretending that I was talking to god pretending that it was relevant for my happiness. All was a lie, fake and kinda "artificial". And I cannot base my happiness on a lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xerxys

does anyone think that a human being (normal human being) can be raised and taught from an early age to become perfect. I don't mean GI-Joe perfect I mean in thinking and actions. Be completely disconnected from emotions...

]Derail
From what I know everyone that tried have left only children with major psicological problems. Humans needs emotions.

boink · 10-02-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

The Zen position is that this question can not be productive and so it is not necessary to have your mind spin in circles trying to find the answer.

boy I think this is the answer too all of these atheist/theist debates. I know Will is right, but he's very Spock-like that way

YellowBird · 10-03-2009, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raghnar -ITA-

buddhist are atheist (or agnostics, depending on the type) from that point of view.

This is true, In fact, our local Buddhist community couldn't get government funding as a religious organization because according to the laws a religion is a group that believes in a god on one form or another.

I'm a little bit of a fan of Buddhist thinking and were it not for the fact that they believe in reincarnation and the idea that all life is "suffering" (and I know it's a lot more complicated then that but that is the general idea) then I would probably be a Buddhist.

However. I'm an atheist. I believe that Faith is trust without evidence and I believe that human emotions like seeing the sunset, going Wow at wild animals and or even being completely terrified are all just chemical changes in the brain that are responding to external stimuli. There is nothing more too it then that.

I believe that supernatural things that happen like ghosts etc, are either just people imagining things, or those that have more evidence that that, I think there probably is something going on there but if we had the technology to examine it (which I believe we will have eventuality) then it would have a perfectly rational scientific explanation.

There is no god. Don't fool yourself into thinking there is. Yes I am a recruiting atheist. I make no apologies for this.

Zeraph · 10-03-2009, 09:46 AM

Actually Buddhism isn't monolithic, there are several types just like Christianity. The two most prominent are Theravada and Mahayana, the latter believes in divine beings and a heaven (i.e. definitely not atheists).

Halx · 10-03-2009, 12:23 PM

Here's the thing: atheism is not a belief system. It is not supposed to be attractive and it is not there to help you make sense of your emotions. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in any god or supreme being. That's it. You are free to handle your emotions as you wish.

I think people see atheism as something that was thought up to compete with religion. This is not true. There is no campaign to sell atheism like religion sells itself. Atheists are free to use scientific, humanistic or zen explanations for emotions.. whatever. There is no book on it because there doesn't need to be.

10-01-2009, 11:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
boink Addict Location: Seattle	the atheist spirit ...? personally I'm not sure where I stand on the concept of a god, ghosts past lives etc. but I strongly lean towards a logical perception of the world ala atheism. but there's a major part of human experience, -perception-? that atheism doesn't address. I can't keep from thinking while reading atheist/theist posts, humans aren't vulcans. what in atheism helps (not sure if that's the right word) one make sense of there emotional response to the world and the events of life or in society ? like the depth of sadness from the loss of a loved one, a war or natural disaster ? or the wonder of nature. I mean, like say your watching a nature show and and some animal, like a bear or whatever is shown doing they're thing, and you think wow, nature is amazing, a theist may think wow, god is amazing, but whatever you call it I have experienced a "welling up of emotion" and even a tear just in wonder and love for wild animals, mountains etc. yes I've been watching some of Ken Burns National Parks. but I guess my main question is, in my assessment, human emotions have a huge pull on how they view the world, so how does atheism help sort out these emotions. __________________ when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.

10-02-2009, 12:26 AM	#3 (permalink)
boink Addict Location: Seattle	I don't think it's always a mistake to trust an emotional response though. I realise atheism is belief there is no god and I would assume anything spiritual or maybe supernatural..? when I read posts on this I get the feeling each belief system is trying to persuade the other. but it seems to me atheism has this big hole in it that dosn't provide any framework for people to resolve the emotional aspect of life. making it not very attractive to those with a particularly strong emotional reactions. addressing one's grief, rage, wonderment "for yourself" isn't really a concept that will bring people together. __________________ when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.

10-02-2009, 01:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
boink Addict Location: Seattle	no I don't think so. I think you could try and teach the concept. but I think removing emotions from humans my be moving away from 'perfection' rather than towards it. __________________ when you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way.

10-03-2009, 12:23 PM	#12 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Here's the thing: atheism is not a belief system. It is not supposed to be attractive and it is not there to help you make sense of your emotions. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in any god or supreme being. That's it. You are free to handle your emotions as you wish. I think people see atheism as something that was thought up to compete with religion. This is not true. There is no campaign to sell atheism like religion sells itself. Atheists are free to use scientific, humanistic or zen explanations for emotions.. whatever. There is no book on it because there doesn't need to be. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

10-01-2009, 11:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Atheism is simply a lack of a particular belief. It doesn't preclude irrationality, emotional responses, or much of anything else. I'm an atheist, I try to be rational, but I make mistakes all the time. I've even been known to do some irrational things. I try not to, but I have biases. It's generally speaking a normal part of the human condition. You have to address these things for yourself, I suppose.

10-02-2009, 12:34 AM	#4 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	I'm illiterate so naturally I also have a question. As of the phrase "Humans are not Vulcans", does anyone think that a human being (normal human being) can be raised and taught from an early age to become perfect. I don't mean GI-Joe perfect I mean in thinking and actions. Be completely disconnected from emotions..., like Dexter (Although he has a strong urge to kill) ... but also not make mistakes (or have actions, for lack of a better word) common to normal people compelled by feelings?

10-02-2009, 07:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	I think that you shouldn't make the same mistake that a lot of atheists seem to make, which is to confuse atheism with rationality. I concur with will.

10-02-2009, 08:05 AM	#7 (permalink)
LanSnake Upright	Twenty years ago I more identified with the agnostic and/or atheistic viewpoint. Since then, over the last four to five years I've been practicing Zen / Chan Buddhism which does not dwell on the concept of God / No God. The Zen position is that this question can not be productive and so it is not necessary to have your mind spin in circles trying to find the answer. I wanted to jump into this thread to make the observation that Buddhism directly looks at the human condition; emotions; compassion; wonder and how you can live your life to minimize problems while being fully aware of these conditions and problems that occur in every human life. So the central question in this thread seems misplaced, as I don't think the atheistic view is meant to "fill a void" after you leave behind the concept of God. It's just the opposite position of the person who believes in God. You cannot remove emotions -- they are part of being alive. Alan

10-03-2009, 09:46 AM	#11 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Actually Buddhism isn't monolithic, there are several types just like Christianity. The two most prominent are Theravada and Mahayana, the latter believes in divine beings and a heaven (i.e. definitely not atheists).