Xerxys

I get it, but you have to see it from the simplest perception possible. Sure, let the car sales man or IRS guy surprise me. But I don't go into ANYTHING at all assuming or expecting otherwise.

It's a bit different from "brace youreself, he's gonna hit, and he's gonna hit me hard!!"

It's more like "I know this douche is gonna try and swindle me and I know what to do, I'm just glad I did my homework."

It's OK to have a positive outlook on life, but if you go around expecting the best of all situations especially many that you could have helped and they do wind up bad, then you fucked!! In the end you only have yourself to blame. That's why we wait for a chance for someone to prove their intentions first.

It's not at all closed minded if you ask me.

thespian86

Just to clear something up. It's not about seeing the world in a positive light. It's about seeing one in no light at all. You can walk away with the realization that this person will have a negative, harmful effect on you. Or a positive one.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

Xerxys

... or none at all ...

Captain Don't Care

thespian86

Exactly you fucking supreme being you. It's an effort to a) walk into a situation and be present what's happening now, b) allow things to happen without pre-judgement, c) live at a heightened version of me during this and control what is mine to have control over, d) let the things I can't control slide without inflecting it on myself (ie: do what most people do and pass things through my own personal filter that have nothing to do with me).

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

FelixP

I don't only see the negative aspects of it, I just see that as the general undertone...like a bad movie with a few good jokes. Yeah, I laughed a few times, but it was still pretty bad overall. And yes, I do hail my POV as the superior one, because maybe, just maybe, if we realize how brutal and hateful and fucked up and selfish we are, we can change, and then I (and future generations) won't have a reason to be so misanthropic.

I'm not holding my breath.

__________________
Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me

"I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

Trubadur

Too Late I am afraid.

Thread I would like to participate…

Anyhow,

Misanthropy is such a cruel label.

Do we really hate Humankind, Mankind?

Or

Are we just disappointed with the Humanity and into what we have evolved as viewed/judged by the actions of the majority of our fellow bipeds?

One could say that we as Humanity (due to our potential) should have used our advanced sophisticated thinking machines with the independent minds and persons behind controls, to develop somewhat more enlightened society.

History is paved with countless graves of failed experiments and best intentions that meant to bring about this shangrila.

No system of rule or Ideological leadership will ever get us there.

No system of education has a recipe for moulding / stamping out free independent thinkers.

Somehow it is my feeling that it is more spontaneous “from within” induced change/leap in perception rather than “from without” imposed process.

I think that, only if the individual members of the society evolve and mature in to enlightened beings by themselves and become free thinkers then and only then we can expect the society to evolve in to enlightened society with its foundations constructed not from indoctrination, one philosophy of thought, blind obedience, forced acceptance and prejudice but rather on certain mutually shared basic understanding and clear thought of what we are, who we are, where we go and why.

But for that we need to adapt both ourselves and our environment and create the most optimal nurturing environment for this steady development.

I do not pretend to know the answers, nor even if I had such excellent recipe for human development would I publish it or start preaching it.

Why?

Well, At best I am afraid I would create another church of blind followers of the doctrine without understanding the contents, which would defeat the purpose; At worst I would get chopped up as a heretic which would underscore my reluctance to offer it for general consumption in the first place.

Again all this requires change in the way we think and this change needs to come from within.
Like in psycho analysis and therapy – I am not telling what to think and how to behave, I can assist you on your own way towards understanding and optimisation of oneself with what one would hope to be unbiased, uninvolved opinion that may act as the reality check just because I may have a perception or be trained in what some may considered “normal” as regards to where you may think to be (or where the rest of society thinks and/or is) at the time of reading .

…..


All in all

My problem with the humanity is the fact that it is by enlarge enclosed in its own shell of lies and unwilling to admit this uncomfortable truth, thus disallowing for the next step in our evolution towards better things.
That we chose to chop each other’s legs and arms as a way to settle differences;
That the so called socio-cultural and technological “progress” is driven by the need to develop “bigger” gun

And many many other reasons.

But most of all, the greatest grievance is with the generally accepted Hypocrisy.

We sell ourselves certain self induced images with certain positive tinge of ourselves as something that we are, while knowingly being aware that it is otherwise and still refusing to challenge this evident lie to any critique and be open to consider it and make a difference.

We live in a lie, we propagate the lie, and we believe it to be true

Therefore I am upset, unhappy and misanthropic on occasions and feel that it is hard for me while having this perception of things surrounding me to be part of this society and contribute my mind because it is alien to me.

So I am cursed, perhaps enlightened or simply misguided.

Back to the question:

Do we really hate Humankind, Mankind?

Or

Are we just disappointed with the Humanity and into what we have evolved as viewed/judged by the actions of the majority of our fellow bipeds?

Yours truly,


"We forfeit three-fourths of ourselves to be like other people."

KirStang

Oh Nevermind. "Do as I say, not as I act."

Trubadur

Quite right

What a man can do is to find something that is his and build an Island for himself.

Oj Oj

Happy New Year chaps

__________________
"Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it."

twilightfoix

All right Trubadur, I'll fux wit ya. I feared this thread turned into a stupid he said, she said hissy fit argument.

Yeah I feel the same way. That humanity as a whole missed the mark on it's potential mostly because for most of history a few have seeked to bend the masses to their will to make their short lives better. This is nothing new nor something relegated to history as I can example with Bernie Madoff and Enron just for effect. There will always be someone trying to screw someone over and I truly believe that all great fortunes were made on an amoral or illegal act.

That being said I accept this as true and shall continue for all time. I dream of a eudaemonia type society but there will be those who can't fathom the logic and reason being used and will clamour for power as to not be left by the wayside. So this I can not envision to come to pass.

Which brings me to my point. Yeah we as humans missed our potential, sure. Time goes on and maybe one day we'll reach it. Technology is being developed and advanced at increasingly exponential rates. But the individuals I meet on a day-to-day basis just say things that make me look at them and wonder how they remembered to breath this morning. The ratio of the stupid to intelligent is just astounding.

that would be my plan.

*side note to Trubadur - I agree almost with your signature. I believe in evolution and that it is a slow unperceptable process. I am better than my parents just as my offspring will be better than me. Thanks to free will though whether or not the next generation lives up to the potential is their choice. But they have the opportunity to be better than I ever could. And that thought gives me hope.

Trubadur

I am not entirely convinced that past generations of human beings of 200 and 2000 years ago had lesser capability for intelligent thought and discourse then we currently possess.
You take child from 2000 bc and raise it today it will be able to function and contribute to the society equally as everyone else and it will be as intelligent and knowledgeable and wise as you or me if given the chance.

The difference is that today, more people have access to more knowledge and have more time to think and digest the information in an environment that is slightly more suitable for human habitation.

Technology advances with our advancements in understanding of surrounding environment.
This knowledge was obtained and build upon by successive generations that went before us, and who, by trial and error and bit of luck with extra spare time to think due to their personal circumstances allowed to progress our general knowledge and science.

Your statement about evolution is true if you define the “better” as better adapted to the present, or changed environment.
Children of migrants who grow up in new (for parents) environment, are better adapted to this environment then the parents. And are able to flourish in it better then the parents; However there are helpless if exposed to the environment of their parents.

Greater Intelligence in your children in an environment where such “betterment” (in your eyes) if not appreciated or recognized by prevailing society will prove to be rather “Bad” evolutionary turn hampering development of full potential of your offspring.
As contrary to let as say less mental capacity but greater physical capacity to be a football player (soccer) or similar

With the Intelligence it is added difficult, because any tests are as good as the people who created them. Thus if you exceed any standards in a non standard or accepted ways then the general assumption is you are not doing it right because the judges which are your seniors and usually superiors by majority may not recognize nor accept or be willing to notice the “genius” of your logic or any deviation to standard and official ways that makes them be the authority in the first place.

There are exceptions, of course but my conclusion is that what is hampering human development is humanity itself.


BTW: my signature is a quote from George Orwell, it just happen that my own observations kind of concur with his assessment

__________________
"Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it."

Charlatan

Experience has shown me that most people who "feel superior" are just arrogant assholes who have no reason to feel superior.

Misanthropy is for losers.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Trubadur

If we are talking about feelings...

Misanthropy does not deal with the feeling of superiority, but rather ( if at all ) with the potential feeling of “disappointment” in respect of other human beings and potential dislike, distrust, disgust, contempt, or even outright hatred.

But if we are talking about feelings...

Let us assume that a majority decides to kill themselves or do something irrational as a solution to some imaginative problem, even against your own “better” judgment, and the solution or idea you may (or may not) have shared or even advocate; or simply acquired it in the hindsight post factum.

Such situation may leave you feeling perturbed and disappointed by the stupidity of the masses and the individuals that make up those masses. Also It may induce feeling of ones superiority versus masses and individuals.

The problem starts when someone starts to apply generalizations and fails to see individual person with its reasons before applying such general judgments.

Nonetheless, masses can and are placed in “boxes”, based on certain associated behavioral characteristics, and preconceptions, psychological and sociological studies and of course market researchers and governments. Etc.
Unfortunately Individuals often do not escape such treatment and are victims of preconceptions and generalizations, due to the fact that no one can truly and fully appreciate and account for and individual and his her needs, when the human society of 6/7 billion people cannot let each other leave in peace.

But they try, and will keep trying.

What is ironic, everyone does it, to lesser or greater extent and we are all guilty of ignorance and arrogance. The trick is to understand and respect the difference in other person before passing judgments. But this is yet another story altogether.

Sorry boss but superiority is not really what question of misanthropy is about. But I will grant you that it may be (but not necessary) associative with the misanthropy while the feeling of "disapointment" is.

Rspct

__________________
"Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it."

Cernunnos

I've always found myself unable to genuinely despise a human being, regardless of their set of attitudes and behaviors. With a reasonable understanding of biology and psychology, all of it can be dismantled into factors that are beyond the conscious control of the individual. Cause and effect preclude the possibility of a living creature ever possessing full responsibility for behavior, which limits my capacity for hatred. I recognize that a human being is an animal, driven by emotional impulses and reactions to the world around them, and their manner of reacting is governed by biological processes with an underlying genetic basis, shaped by the environment.

Can you fault a mass murderer for who he has become? Was he in control of every event leading up to his current psychological condition? Did he have any influence in determining his genome? No.

I don't hate humanity, but I have difficulty relating on a meaningful level to the vast majority of its constituents. My confidence in the kindness of the proverbial human spirit has been routinely shaken, and while there exist instances of goodwill, the lion's share is due either to self interest or programming (cultural and biological). For that reason, it is seemingly impossible to dislodge my viewpoint from aloof neutrality.

Trubadur

Assuming that we are helplessly executing our genetic programming and environmental conditioning without freedom of choice then we are not truly accountable for our actions.

And since I am firm believer in freedom of choice which in my dictionary translates in to responsibility and accountability for actions one decides/chooses to make and take.

I would have to say that yes, I can blame mass murderer for his actions and choices he / she made as a conscious being; for as long as he/she is undeniably proven otherwise to be incapable of sound judgment due to some hardware/firmware. And thus the Defective model is a victim of circumstances beyond his/hers control and ought to be fix or discarded.

Otherwise I share the view point regarding the biological programming and environmental conditioning with an exception that the biological programming provides only for predispositions and potential aptitudes for one or the other thing.

While environmental conditioning ought to identify and exploit predisposition to best possible effect

It is fascinating area of research Nature v Nurture. Humans, the mind and the biology, these topics are like borderline of constantly shifting tectonic plates, we can look there but there is too much chaos to see anything. We know the materials but there is too many variants to correlate the hardware and software..

__________________
"Each generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it."