Everyone is ethical - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

abaya · 09-16-2008, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inBOIL

While it isn't how you would spend the money, (or me, for that matter) it did spread the money to others who provided the goods and services to make that wedding happen. If we eliminated frivolous and ostentatious spending, a lot of people would be out of a job.

Well, now that's true, and it's an angle that I don't often think about. Overall, though, I feel like this kind of spending does not really do anything to equalize the gap between the top and bottom rungs of society--it only reinforces it. I find ostentatious displays of wealth to be repulsive in that sense... lacking in moderation, humility, and awareness of the needs of the rest of the world. And I mean that on a moral level, rather than just a matter of taste (the difference between ethics and aesthetics, correct?... I am not a philosopher). Levite nailed my feelings here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by levite

No, I totally get it, and I don't think it's purely an aesthetic question. Abaya seems to be saying clearly that she has a moral problem with anyone who would, in a world with so many lacks, so many causes, so many in need, spend a truly obscene amount of money throwing a party-- because let's face it, that's really all a wedding is: a party for a lot of people, most of whom aren't all that close to the bride and groom.

This is, IMO, a perfectly reasonable question to ask. What kind of people would spend that kind of money on a party, rather than donate it to charity, give it to causes they believe in, or at worst, just invest it for their future children or their retirement? What kind of priorities does that choice signify? What kind of values system do these people really have?

Those are sound questions. Whether you, Abaya, should go through with "dumping" them as friends...I don't know. I think this has to be set in measurement against the whole relationship you've had with them. Everyone is entitled to at least one stunningly bad choice: maybe this is theirs. But it's fair to be seriously considering it, at least.

Thanks, Levi... those were my questions exactly. I don't think we'll even have time to "dump" them as friends, seeing as we'll be moving away from here in the next few months. I don't really dump people, in general. But I do invite distance between me and people whose values I have a hard time understanding... because I am the type of person who can't do small-talk, and when I get together with friends, I want to know what they value, what their ethics are, etc. And if those values don't make sense to me, it's hard for me to connect at an intimate level, which is the level I like to have in a good friendship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

it seems like that could be a fit between class position (though it's hard to say whose) and actions. this symmetry or correspondence is at bottom an aesthetic matter. ethics comes in as a way of talking about violation in this context.

This is the part where again, I'm not qualified to make the distinction. It feels moral to me, but I'm not a philosopher, so I could use a little more explanation on the difference...

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

and i don't really know what i'd do were i in your position, abaya. if i was inclined to not like these people for other reasons but couldn't find a reason to act on it, i'd probably use this. but if i wasn't so inclined, i wouldn't have a particular reaction in principle. weddings are strange things.
generally, they're about the display of a sense of class position, often more on the part of parents than on the part of who is getting married.
either way, i figure let them have the party that they want to have.
i find bad music at the reception far more bothersome than the amount of money splashed out on a wedding, but i'm just like that.
i like parties.
and when the revolution comes, the parties will all be better.

Good points, rb. We're not really that close in the first place, so there isn't a whole lot to cast off... but you're right, I'm inclined to not like these people for a few other reasons already. I know that weddings are very strange things, but I'm not convinced that it's only about the parents' class. The bride in this wedding was the one in charge of everything about the wedding, and she knew the costs she was incurring... and the groom said that he "just wanted her to be happy," so he was willing to help pay for as much as she wanted. It just all seems so irresponsible, to need a $50K wedding in order to be happy, and all the things that come with it (bad music or not!).

But again, as I explained above... I am the type who judges people's character (not just their taste) based on how I see them spending their money. Another question might be, is it unethical of me to judge people in that way?... I'm willing to admit that it might be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

The cynic in me says that there are aspects of human nature that we resist acknowledging. The amateur cultural anthropologist in me says that the human mind was just not designed to think on a global scale. We think tribally. I mean, look at all the different nations, religious sects, and various clubs that blanket the world. Heck, we're talking in a "club" right now. We're a tribal people trying to exist in a global environment. We have to segment and compartmentalize the world; break it down into digestible elements to understand it.

So the distance of future generations is often beyond our human minds, and the suffering of starving people in Africa may as well be happening on Mars. Because not only are those people far away, but they have no access to the global village, like radio stations, Web sites, TV channels. They are effectively cut off from the world, out of sight and out of mind.

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your post.