06-22-2003, 06:12 PM | #1 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: About 4 and a half
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Individuality, Can You Be Completely Unique?
So basically, just think about it for a second, is there really something such as individuality? If you look at it there are people in groups and who believe in certain things but your not being an individual if there are other people thinking that way. I don't think that a person can completely be an individual. If you think a certain way I bet you that there is someone out there who thinks the exact same way as you do about life and your philosophy. We read books and watch tv and get thoughts from your surroundings and they come from somewhere even if you alter them or do come up with something on your own I don't think your becoming and individual.
Basically I just feel like you can't really be your own person if other people also want to become so, then you become a group of individuals which doesn't really make you different if you there are other people like you. Or maybe I'm just confusing myself
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Brilliance Is Just Three Feet Up and One Liter Under http://geocities.com/killme4times |
06-22-2003, 06:16 PM | #2 (permalink) |
ClerkMan!
Location: Tulsa, Ok.
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Well the answer to your question is Yes and No. There ARE true inviduals out there but they are extremly rare. If they were common then they would just be the norm and not individuals.
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Meridae'n once played "death" at a game of chess that lasted for over two years. He finally beat death in a best 34 out of 67 match. At that time he could ask for any one thing and he could wish for the hope of all mankind... he looked death right in the eye and said ... "I would like about three fiddy" |
06-23-2003, 06:21 AM | #4 (permalink) |
Loser
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actually, I'm surprised that many people on board have the same opinions, thoughts & values I do.
I've always been a GDI (god-damned independent), and I've always thought out a viewpoint for myself, and been resistance to ideas that don't make common sense. Yes, many times it's a burden, both from being different and also the energy it's takes to form your own viewpoint. But that's what I am, I can't be anything else. |
06-23-2003, 06:30 AM | #5 (permalink) |
Mad Philosopher
Location: Washington, DC
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It seems to me that no one is truly unique, though we're all unique in our own way. One of the most important parts of growing up is the formation of one's identity -- a deeply complicated process, to be sure. But from what I've seen, we form our identity by using the stereotypes available to us in our culture. The complexity of the stereotypes we use determines how much of an individual we are perceived to be by others. Some people simply live as a single stereotype, and these are generally the people who are perceived to be dominated by groupthink. Others use some combination of two or three, and these are more often perceived to be individualistic.
It is perhaps worth mentioning that 'individualist' is itself a very common stereotype that people follow (I'm not saying that you fall into this camp, rogue49), and so they purposefully form their opinions to be contrary to what they perceive the general opinion of society to be. Of course, this sort of person is no more unique than the solidly bourgeois office worker. Do we have free choice in this? Well... Of course which stereotypes we tend to follow depends on our native abilities and the enviroment we grow up in. Someone with high native intelligence is more likely to think of themself as a nerd than someone without such gifts. But our natural gifts are also highly fluid, and how we exercise whatever natural talent we have has a significant impact on what talent we have at the end of the day. Someone for whom the image of athlete is really appealing can turn themself into such, even if their natural talents are not primarily in that area.
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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht." "The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm." -- Friedrich Nietzsche |
06-23-2003, 07:07 AM | #6 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: in the woods
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everyone believes they are unique
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the days run over the hills like wild horses...-Bukowsky- i am the flying rodeo clown of death in qpids liberation army... lending my strange services in the noble cause of taking over the world before microsoft enslaves us all. |
06-23-2003, 08:43 AM | #8 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: Bay Area, California
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I really liked what asaris said, partially because it was what I was thinking (where's the individuality here?, lol). I liked his comments about sterotypes (A contemporary of Freud called them Archetypes) and I liked that he pointed out that taking a postion counter to a group is still being influenced by the group.
I see it that I am an individual that is subject to the culture and perceptions I've gathered throughout my life. I am aware of social norms and abide by the ones I see fit. (I pay my check and leave a tip in restraunts as my parents taught me), I think in English which was a language that was around before I was born. Yet within these confines I also create my individual choices: sometimes I sneek into other movies at multiplexs; and Sublue is a word of my own choosing. As I'm sitting here thinking of "an individual" Picasso comes to mind. His Art was completely unique for it's time and that's what made it stand out. Yet did he copy? Sure. He used paint, brushes, and canvouses just like everyone else. I think our American culture loves the individual Archetype. That's why films like Rambo or A man with no Name are so popular. We love the idea of the lone cowboy who lives by his own rules. (I think its funny that we are developing a shadow to this thought - if you don't agree with Mr. Bush, then you're a traitor and a terrorist) It's a great question Duck2Day. I'm glad you asked it, and I'm curious, is it important for you to see yourself as an individual and not a member of a group? |
06-23-2003, 05:54 PM | #11 (permalink) |
Banned
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agreeing with asaris, within everyones upbringing are teh beliefs of their parents, and the expectations of their elders. They will form heroes during their life, and those heroes will, to a certain extent, influence their path of life. The friends that they make, coming from THEIR parents beliefs,etc, will influence them as well. A humans actions are influenced by the melting pot that they were poured out of, and the mold that they were broken into.
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06-24-2003, 07:59 AM | #13 (permalink) |
I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot!
Location: Upper Michigan
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When I hear the word Individuality I think or thinking for myself based on my exeperiences. No one can be completely unique that is for sure. Even as a child when you are developing your personality and around the toddler years when you are asserting your self autonomy so much you are conforming to your environment. Part of that is ingrained in our instincts as a method of survival. The odd creature is ostracised in nature and left to survive on it's own. There is strength in numbers and that situation (being ostracised) is less desirable to our Id. My daughter who isn't even three yet says phrases that either my husband, myself, or her friends say. That is what she's heard and she is attempting to conform as part of that instinct. It's only later when we begin to feel like duplicates of our family and want to be different that we start dying our hair purple or listening to different music than our family etc. I believe to be individual you must think through things for yourself. If you really truely like something you see in fashion I would say go ahead and get it and wear it even after that fashion has faded away. Be respectful to others (the traditional manners - tips, thanks, opening doors, etc.) but don't do things because everyone else is or wants to. If you are doing it because its what you want that you are your own individual. If someone else wants to copy you and do it too then take it as a compliment and nothing more. It's like the little kid in preschool "TEACHER! He's copying me!!" There is nothing wrong with it. Rebellion is conformity in reverse and no better.
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"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma. |
06-24-2003, 01:26 PM | #14 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: About 4 and a half
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I don't know, I think people can be unique but no one person is completely unique. I bet there's always going to be someone out there just like you.
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Brilliance Is Just Three Feet Up and One Liter Under http://geocities.com/killme4times |
06-25-2003, 05:08 PM | #15 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: British Columbia
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Unless you grew up in utter solitude, you are not 100% 'unique' Everyone is everyday influenced by those around them. Everyone is everyday changing due to these influences. A person picks up habits, ideas, and many other things due to these changes, and they are from other people, who have gotten them from other people, but changed them a small bit. every time an (idea, habit etc.) is passed on, it is changed a bit, which is why everyone is not exactly the same. But, the princile idea remains similar.
Hope that made at least a little sense, I often veer off the path into obscurity while trying to explain things. |
06-25-2003, 10:00 PM | #16 (permalink) |
back from sabbatical
Location: Mosptopia
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As far as the physical goes, there are no true individuals. fingerprint, voiceprint, retinaprint, these are all used because the mathematical probability of there being two matching of these is so large, that so far as the current population goes, they're effectively impossible. The mental on the other hand... I think that no one can really be the same. You have all the outside factors, parents, media, etc. influencing. you have the life you have experienced yourself, you have your friends experiences, many things that influence you, but you put them together in your own way. Yes, you might have the same opinion on an issue, or even have the same basic stance towards life as another person, but the process used to arrive at the same end will be completely different.
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You're not fat, You're just a giant ball of love, covered in anger. |
06-27-2003, 12:17 AM | #19 (permalink) | |
Guest
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Quote:
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06-27-2003, 05:09 AM | #20 (permalink) |
Tilted
Location: NJ
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IMO, The parts that make an individual are not unique.. but the combination of those parts create many many different sums. =) I think some of those sums could be nearly same, but not identical.
So.... by some of your "no one is unique" rational.. if you try to be exactly like someone else, it means you = them? It seems some of the folks in this thread are talking about different degrees of unique. |
06-27-2003, 10:39 AM | #21 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Steel Town, Ontario
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Here's my two cents worth, (and Canadian too!). Even if it was possible for someone to be exposed to the same material and "life scenes" as I was up until this point, it is unlikely that that person would be "identical" to me.
Person X could read every book, watched every TV show and been party to every conversation I've ever had and so on...but 'X' would receive different points from those exposures than I did. Whether it was a commercial that caught more/less notice than I gave or a passage of the book that was skimmed instead of read word for word. Is 'X' going to be moved by the exact scenery while bicycling as I was? Possible though not likely. Individuality seems to be like a colour wheel. From three primary colours we blend to secondary, tertiary and so on up to the 16 000 000 colours Pshop and Illustrator deal with. That is also limited by the RGB of the screen or CMYK of your printer. Human interaction isn't limited that way. I shall now be known as Colour 16 000 001 and counting!
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After all is said and done, more is said than done. |
06-29-2003, 02:10 PM | #23 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: About 4 and a half
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I just think it's funny how people wear those shirts that say "You laugh at me because I'm different, but I laugh at you because your all the same". I wonder if they realize that those are shirts that are mass produced and there are millions of them existing and there are thousands of people who are actually wearing them. Now what does that say wearing a name brand shirt with the exact same saying as more people. If you wear one of those shirts I'm sorry, but I'm going to laught at you lol.
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Brilliance Is Just Three Feet Up and One Liter Under http://geocities.com/killme4times |
06-29-2003, 02:25 PM | #24 (permalink) | |
Modern Man
Location: West Michigan
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Everyone is a unique pattern of experiences and thoughts each of which individually have all been thought or experienced before but combined with your pattern are entirely unique. Well maybe, maybe not. All I know is that there a lot of people trying to be individuals out there.
I think forgotten_dream said it best Quote:
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Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues |
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06-29-2003, 09:48 PM | #25 (permalink) |
Tilted
Location: with the dust bunnies
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there is a school of thought that states:
"if you've thought about it, someone has done it." a truly frightening idea, but i agree. even identical twins raised together, gone to the same school and spend all thier time together can't be the same, even if it's just that one had a pimple that the other didn't. there is no possible way that someone could experience every moment that another has. you can certainly share traits, names, ideology, stds, instincts, tastes and even fears; but you can NOT share a lifetimes worth of living. everyone differs in some way. and everyone is unique.... but some people hide it well.
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Wickedness is a myth invented by good people to explain the curious attractiveness of others. -Oscar Wilde. |
06-29-2003, 10:08 PM | #26 (permalink) |
Insane
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someone needs to define completely unique. If it is absolutely everything about you, then no, nobody is completely unique because you're a human. I think that people are unique in ways, but are never completely unique.
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Mechanical Engineers build weapons. Civil Engineers build targets. |
06-30-2003, 08:57 AM | #27 (permalink) | |
Upright
Location: About 4 and a half
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Quote:
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Brilliance Is Just Three Feet Up and One Liter Under http://geocities.com/killme4times |
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06-30-2003, 04:53 PM | #28 (permalink) |
Loser
Location: MI
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What is with this "completely unique" phrase im seeing in this topic. There is no such thing as being "partially unique"; you are either unique or you aren't. The only thing it takes to make someone unique is some minuscule difference between that person and everyone else. anyone here ever heard of genetics? Genetics make almost everyone unique...even most identical twins are unique due to random mutations that are caused by the environment in which they live. if you can find 2 people (besides identical twins) that are the same be my guest.
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completely, individuality, unique |
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