oldtimer

Women................(Do I really have to explain?)
That or either video games.

__________________
Slowly but surely getting over the loss of TFP v. 3.0.
Where the hell am I?....
Showering once a month does not make you a better person.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King, Jr.

YourNeverThere

i think you are right

__________________
The Above post is a direct quote from Shakespeare

RatherThanWords

God's greatest creation (actually more like magic trick) was making half the world actually believe that he exists with no credible evidance.

scarebearjinx

from a romantics point of veiw, sunsets and the evening sky. other than that, yea women and video games. and cartoons of all kinds.

forgotten_dream

Isn't the fact that most of the world believes in a higher power a miracle? I say that's proof He exists!

__________________
"A ouija board just works better if you've made it yourself. It's sortof like how 'Clue' is more interesting when one of you has actually killed someone."

CountChocula7

HA HA HA HA....

I think that his greatest creation was giving mankind the right to choose and think for himself.

Which is certainly manifested in people who look at a universe of which they collectively understand only about 4% of, inhabiting bodies which they probably understand even less of, yet show an amazing robustness that we can't even come close to engineering, believing that this all came out of nothing, for no reason, all the while ignoring the steady stream of miracles performed in every age, and then claim a lack of EVIDENCE. Simultaneously criticizing other people for their emotions and lack of rationality.

Irony. Now that is a great creation. : )

RatherThanWords

Hmmm... I'd like to hear more about this steady stream of miracles. A miracle being, in my opinion, something that cannot adequately be proved by scientific fact (or logic)

rogue49

they are just like us, but different.

asaris

Would that be miracles or women?

Personally, since the question assumes the existence of God, free will. For a being to be powerful enough to create other beings who could disagree with him...that's pretty damn good.

forgotten_dream

How existence came about can't be proven by scientifiic fact, it's the whole question of which came first-- Chicken or Egg? Something had to eventually just BE.
But I digress.
Great creation...
Dude, chocolate chip cookies. Ain't nothin better.

__________________
"A ouija board just works better if you've made it yourself. It's sortof like how 'Clue' is more interesting when one of you has actually killed someone."

RatherThanWords

Actually, the chicken simply evolved from a previous being...

The_Dude

women. hot women.

__________________
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

CSflim

Chicken or egg?

The egg came first. It was laid by something, which lies just one generation outside of the definition of "chicken"

CSflim

Hrmmm.... I too would LOVE to hear about this steady stream of miracles. Please enlighten us Count.

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RatherThanWords

Flinn...I said the same thing about the miracles...no replies yet though

GunslingerCold

I hate to sound cliche, but isnt living a miracle. All the processes of life, from birth to maturing are quite spectacular. At some point theres just to many examples of evolutionary perfection to be coincidental.

oldtimer

^ Thank you!!! Somebody finally had to say it.

__________________
Slowly but surely getting over the loss of TFP v. 3.0.
Where the hell am I?....
Showering once a month does not make you a better person.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King, Jr.

ganon

love is the greatest creation

__________________
"My give up, my give up." - Jar Jar Binks

CSflim

Life is no miracle. But I believe that there are other threads for that particularly thorny discussion

__________________

oldtimer

Please, not that evolution theory again.

__________________
Slowly but surely getting over the loss of TFP v. 3.0.
Where the hell am I?....
Showering once a month does not make you a better person.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King, Jr.

gwr_gwir

self, think free will is the greatest creation. allows opportunity for discussion - and from that, disagreement, which is why many people are here (or so it seems)...

__________________
Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as at least a misdemeanor.
-- Robert Heinlein

CSflim

heheheh...hate to be the argumentative bastard, but...

Can you prove that you have free will? Is there any way to discredit a purely deterministic universe?

__________________

Bob Biter

If God actually exists, then I guess the circulatory system is his/her/its greatest creation. That and smores.

__________________
A plan is just a list of things that don't happen.

warmingup2prose

the atmosphere...if (s)he made it.

Sun Tzu

The Rooster.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

PHYcos

As Al Pacino said "Women. What could you say? Who made 'em? God must've been a fucking genius"

__________________
-All women are 2 drinks away from a GIRL-ON-GIRL adventure!-

gwr_gwir

heh. CSFilm - I dunno, offhand. no doubt there's arguments for and against, ad nauseam, but I don't know the finer points of them offhand.

__________________
Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as at least a misdemeanor.
-- Robert Heinlein

QuasiMojo

"If God made anything better than pussy, he kept it for himself"
- anon
are you happy oldtimer?

__________________
AzAbOv ZoBeLoE

oldtimer

Oh yeah!

__________________
Slowly but surely getting over the loss of TFP v. 3.0.
Where the hell am I?....
Showering once a month does not make you a better person.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King, Jr.

MacGnG

women, have to agree with that.

Chemicals... they can do all kindsa stuff: make you feel good, make u float, fight diseases, chemicals do all kindsa things!

CountChocula7

The steady strem of miracles.

Read about Hinduism.
Read Autobiography of a Yogi.
Read the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.
Read about Ammanchi.
Read about Ghandi.
Pick up the Idiot's Guide to Hinduism.
Read the story of Shanti Devi.
Read the New Testament.

The funny thing about Miracles is God don't want you to believe in him cuz she can play little tricks with you. So you can always play skeptic games if you want to.

Evolution is a great theory. But what can come out of nothing?
Where in this entire universe does something come out of nothing?? Is there a perpetual motion machine? No. The universe is hell bent on increasing entropy, disorder. Yet find the most organized things on this planet.


Where did the chicken-like chicken egg layer come from?
And where is the Chicken going?

The same place.
The universe operates in cycles.
Call it what you will.

Sorry for the late response.
Later.

CSflim

Actually, something comes out of nothing surprisingly often in the universe. Read up on particle physics and quantum mechanics. Thats where the entire notion of "Zero-Point Energy" came from.

I belive you have misread your thermodynamics textbook, if you are implying that life defies the second law. Notice the bit about "a closed system".

Could you please give me an example of a specific miracle? Preferably with real evidence, rather than legend and myth.

__________________

papermachesatan

The Egg. The thing that laid the egg wasn't quite a chicken.

papermachesatan

complicated, true but quite far from perfect too. in fact, many parts of body appear to badly done modifications of previously existing parts. i.e. backwards wired eyes, the shared entry way of air and food creates a choking hazard, etc. the "miracle of life" was a poorly thought out endeavour taken by your "intelligent designer".

papermachesatan

What's even more interesting is that this "came out of nothing" notion is actually what creationism espouses- God created something out of nothing.

papermachesatan

Evolution doesn't try to address where life came from. Thats where the theory of relativity and abiogenesis come in.

The theory of relatively states that time begins when the big bang occured so the phyiscal universe, with everything in it, existed at the beginning of time. Abiogenesis describes how non-organic molecules formed into organic molecules(which later formed into DNA, cells, etc.).

Snowflakes are a perfect example of order from chaos. You don't understand how the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics works.


From an even less chicken-like egg layer. Where is it going? Who knows?

oldtimer

Which brings us to back to another question, "Who created God?" or how did the starter of our life (Earth) as well as possibly others come to be? One thing that I have a problem with your "something out of nothing" theory is we were given useless parts to our bodies and some are still unexplainable. Nipples. Of course for women to do their duties but why for men? I'm sure if there's an answer it's gene related. What about the construction of our bodies period? Did we have to have two eyes? Did we have to have 5 fingers? Why do we have fingernails (for a greater purpose than to pick and scratch our body)? Why is my nose in the center of my face instead of on my forehead? Ridiculous you say! What's <b>normal</b> until you see the first human being? So if we saw a human with the characteristics I described you could not deem that impossible soley because if you believe that is impossible then you must believe that "someone" designed you with a picture in mind? Still waiting on the gene/DNA answer though.......

__________________
Slowly but surely getting over the loss of TFP v. 3.0.
Where the hell am I?....
Showering once a month does not make you a better person.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King, Jr.

CountChocula7

Hey CSfilm:
check this out:
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6674628^13762,00.html

And also go read about Western Medical Doctors and Swami Rama. He did things that Medical science said were impossible.

To Retort:
God didn't create creation out of nothing.
She created it out of herself. And in the end it all goes back to God. Like I said a cycle.

As far as particle phsycis goes, where do these quantum fluctuations, (particles appearing out of nothing) come from?
Energy. And where do they go back to? Energy.

Who created God?
Nothing. You can't create God.
God doesn't exist.
God is beyond existence.

And yo, I ain't a creationist.
Evolution is fine, DNA and genes are the way things work.
But that picture isn't entirely clear or finished yet.
All I'm saying is that you guys don't have the full picture.
Why in the hell would random molecules start copying themselves?

You guys have your theories and hypotheses, and they form your religion. You call it the modern scientific viewpoint. But you're no less biased or ignorant as me or anyone else. There are questions that you can't answer, and there are some questions that I can't answer.

And snowflakes are Chaos, aren't they?
Fractals anyone?

I'm having fun though guys. Let's keep this up.

BTW oldtimer, nipples are useful for men in bed. : P

papermachesatan

Broken link count.


So God created everything out of himself. God = all matter and all energy that exists? But you say he's beyond existance so he's not actually creating something out of pre-existing material. So god = creating something from nothing(creating something from something that doesn't exist). Concession accepted.

Biochmeists have a good idea how primitive nucleic acids, amino acids, etc. formed and organized themselves in such a matter that they can form self-sustaining, self-replicating units.

But even if we don't know how it came to be exactly, it still doesn't affirm God's existance. You've yet to show any proof of God besides your flawed logic, "The universe is complicated = God must exist."

False. Science deals with neither the supernatural or spiritual so it cannot be a religion. Science is the observation, study, and experimentation carried out in a order to determine the nature or principles of the thing being studied. Religion is a system of belief and worship of supernatural and proclaimed truths.

Science is the search for truth while religion claims to already know it.
"Religion - This is how the universe works believe what you are told.
Science - This is how the universe works, see our working, if you have questions we'll be happy to show you the evidence.
"

No, they aren't- at least not compared to the cloud of water they came from.

oldtimer

It's true I don't always look at things from a scientific approach but my "design" rant was trying to establish that an evolution theory (creation from a single celled ameba to what we have today) is unlikely rather than impossible. I stated in that rant things, not too complex, but things that weren't complex enough in the first place to be considered "complex". I'm sure skin, hair, bone, and "nipples" couldn't have all "evolved" from an ameba. Some refer to this as ignorance but this truly could be beyond comprehension.

__________________
Slowly but surely getting over the loss of TFP v. 3.0.
Where the hell am I?....
Showering once a month does not make you a better person.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King, Jr.