Absolute Power: Violence - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Plan9 · 10-09-2007, 06:13 PM

*high five to DKSuddeth*

Ourcrazymodern? · 10-14-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Because feeling like you're in control of something is the exact opposite of feeling helpless, and as far as i can tell, helplessness is one feeling most people try to avoid.

I don't know if you remember being a kid, but i do. Children are constantly being told what to do, and with good reason. They lack the awareness required to not inadvertently seriously hurt themselves or someone else. Regardless, constantly being bossed around can be stressful, and being physically active is one way of relieving stress. One of the few things that a kid at that age does have a lot of control over (in a sense they don't have that much control) is his/her body.

It could be for a lot of different reasons. Maybe the kid is trying to get in trouble because they want some attention from their caregiver. Maybe the kid is just mimicking behavior that they've seen elsewhere. Maybe the kid is just experimenting with different kinds of behavior.

Well, i wouldn't be all formal with it. This is just me talking out of my ass. And i wouldn't say that there aren't any kids who are prone to anti-social violence, i just think that there is generally a more satisfying explanation for it than simply chalking it up to human nature.

Would it bother you if I said you are beautiful?

analog · 10-14-2007, 03:33 PM

Peace is far more powerful than violence.

The strongest show of peace will win every time.

When a peaceful person lays dead at the hands of a violent person... the violent person has controlled nothing. In fact, they have lost control. They have proven that violence is not absolute power... it is the ultimate display of impotence, compensated for by aggression.

Ustwo · 10-14-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

Peace is far more powerful than violence.

The strongest show of peace will win every time.

When a peaceful person lays dead at the hands of a violent person... the violent person has controlled nothing. In fact, they have lost control. They have proven that violence is not absolute power... it is the ultimate display of impotence, compensated for by aggression.

I'd rather be incompetently alive having lost control than powerfully dead and in control.

Sounds nice though.

Plan9 · 10-14-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

Peace is far more powerful than violence.

The strongest show of peace will win every time.

When a peaceful person lays dead at the hands of a violent person... the violent person has controlled nothing. In fact, they have lost control. They have proven that violence is not absolute power... it is the ultimate display of impotence, compensated for by aggression.

HAHAHAHAH!

Wanna test this theory about people feeling bad about killing others?

I bet you wouldn't say that silliness if you saw the brain-splattered insides of the Afghani trucks we rolled up on outside Waza Kwa. Looked like a horror movie... except for the smell and flies buzzing in my ears.

Tell me again about how noble peace is, how peace changes all.

"Only the dead have seen the end of war."

Life could be that war.

Baraka_Guru · 10-14-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I'd rather be incompetently alive having lost control than powerfully dead and in control.

While not necessarily directly related: Would you rather be evil and alive, or good but dead?

Plan9 · 10-14-2007, 08:13 PM

Nobody has proven the afterlife is all that awesome and features an endless supply of animal crackers.

I'll take being evil and alive over dead and righteous any day.

Baraka_Guru · 10-14-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

I'll take being evil and alive over dead and righteous any day.

How far would you be willing to take this?

Baraka_Guru vs. Crompsin!

Moral faceoff!

GO!

Plan9 · 10-14-2007, 08:45 PM

I'm actually a GI Joe kinda guy at my core... ya know, beneath all the bullshit.
I've risked my ass for a lot of low-quality human beings in my day.
I only did said things because I thought they was honorable.
My choices didn't even make sense half the time.
My life is based on a weird sense of honor.
Without said honor? My life is pointless.

...

The mantra rings:

"I am the reactor that glows in my chest, I am the rust that corrodes my will. I am my worst enemy, I am my best friend."

The control: Damn... I have to live with me and what I've done.

There is a brilliant thesis out there on this. Maybe entitled "Mobile Conscience" or something similar.

...

You win.

Matching brains with you would require me to have something other than an Ocean Spray craisin (TM) attached to the top of my spine, bro.

analog · 10-14-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

HAHAHAHAH!

Wanna test this theory about people feeling bad about killing others?

I didn't say anything about people feeling bad about killing.

If you kill a person in peaceful protest, you haven't won anything. You've just proven that you're only able to feel victorious by killing your opposition.

I also didn't say peace "changes all". I simply said it's more powerful.

Seer666 · 10-15-2007, 07:08 AM

Way to much for me to read in one sitting, but feel the need to throw in my 2 cents. Will is the source of power, not violence. Violence is just one means of expressing that will. A very effective one, at that. But it only works against those that don't have the will to stand up against it. Power, in it's usage here, would be best described as control of another person or group. How you gain that control does not matter. That is just an expression of your will. If you can show, through violence or any other means, that your will is stronger, then you have the power. Violence is just a means to an end. I can't help but think of a Robert Hienlein quote. "you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him"

Plan9 · 10-15-2007, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

I didn't say anything about people feeling bad about killing.

If you kill a person in peaceful protest, you haven't won anything. You've just proven that you're only able to feel victorious by killing your opposition.

I also didn't say peace "changes all". I simply said it's more powerful.

Yeah, generalizations suck... but I have to put branches on the tree to climb it, no?

I got a small brain that lacks a lot of nooks and crannies. This is what I figure:

Without emotions there would be minimal conflict on this planet. Some feeling is always involved. Especially in this "peaceful protest" you refer to here. Group A "feels" like Group B should stop doing Activity C. Group B beats the crap outta Group A and probably continues doing Activity C.

As westerners... we give pop culture virtues a lot of weight in a very violent world. We're not surrounded by Peter Frampton fans... not everybody wants to feel like we do.

Peace is more civilized, more creative, more productive... clearly the more balanced path... but I would suggest it is less powerful than the focused force of violence.

Thermodynamics might say peace is potential energy, that violence is kinetic energy. The first law of thermodynamics applies.

Meh. Just a thought.

Ustwo · 10-15-2007, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru

While not necessarily directly related: Would you rather be evil and alive, or good but dead?

Evil as in eating kittens while drinking the blood of children while making their parents watch evil?

There is a fine line between evil and surviving. I don't feel evil but my very existence is built on a pile of dead, but tasty, animals. My being in this country is based on some people being mean and kicking other people living here out. My genetic line is undoubtedly been perpetuated by violence, exploitation and even cannibalism at some point.

Its the old, is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family question.

Plan9 · 10-15-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I don't feel evil but my very existence is built on a pile of dead, but tasty, animals.

Violence: It's what makes dinner.

Ourcrazymodern? · 10-15-2007, 02:53 PM

Hi-ho, Crompsin!

The ability to do violence leads to its use.

We have alternatives, don't we
(?)

We are as equipped to love as we are to kill.

(I love you, though.)

Baraka_Guru · 10-15-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Its the old, is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family question.

Not really. If you had starving children and no other alternative, stealing food, though unlawful, wouldn't be evil. There are many choices one might make for self-preservation. Certainly in some cases it would be better to die than to perform certain acts to save your hide.

Plan9 · 10-15-2007, 05:02 PM

But the concept of honor varies from culture to culture.

Retreat was a viable option to US soldiers during WWII.

Retreat was worse than death to Japanese soldiers.

Saving your life is irrelevant if your culture doesn't approve of how you did it.

Ourcrazymodern? · 10-16-2007, 06:29 AM

I will not drag this into goofiness - I hope.

Those violent see its utility and those peaceful see its lack. Philosophical differences make all the differences, until violence kills and "wins" until the next go-round, when it'll probably "win" again - if not morally, at least in reality, for a little while.

IT IS JUST US HERE, PEOPLE!

I hope it's okay to cry.

Kudos on this thread, my hero!

Plan9 · 10-16-2007, 09:27 AM

Blegch. No kudos should be awarded for this poo-poo. Just a random muse. I simply went with a notion and kept pushing until it was mostly exhausted. Sometimes a debate is more fun when you tout for the side in which you don't actually believe.

I suppose it would be a footnote of minor consequence now... but this thread doesn't apply to my personal life philosophy in the over-the-top extreme it is represented here by speculation / conjecture.

Despite my former occupation and hobbies, I am not at all a violent person.

Sure, crying is okay. "Everybody hurts."

...

The awesome people of this forum have helped me learn quite a bit about both the world around me and myself.

10-09-2007, 06:13 PM	#81 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	high five to DKSuddeth __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

10-14-2007, 08:13 PM	#87 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Nobody has proven the afterlife is all that awesome and features an endless supply of animal crackers. I'll take being evil and alive over dead and righteous any day. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

10-14-2007, 08:45 PM	#89 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	I'm actually a GI Joe kinda guy at my core... ya know, beneath all the bullshit. I've risked my ass for a lot of low-quality human beings in my day. I only did said things because I thought they was honorable. My choices didn't even make sense half the time. My life is based on a weird sense of honor. Without said honor? My life is pointless. ... The mantra rings: "I am the reactor that glows in my chest, I am the rust that corrodes my will. I am my worst enemy, I am my best friend." The control: Damn... I have to live with me and what I've done. There is a brilliant thesis out there on this. Maybe entitled "Mobile Conscience" or something similar. ... You win. Matching brains with you would require me to have something other than an Ocean Spray craisin (TM) attached to the top of my spine, bro. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 10-14-2007 at 08:52 PM..

10-15-2007, 07:08 AM	#91 (permalink)
Seer666 Oh dear God he breeded Location: Arizona	Way to much for me to read in one sitting, but feel the need to throw in my 2 cents. Will is the source of power, not violence. Violence is just one means of expressing that will. A very effective one, at that. But it only works against those that don't have the will to stand up against it. Power, in it's usage here, would be best described as control of another person or group. How you gain that control does not matter. That is just an expression of your will. If you can show, through violence or any other means, that your will is stronger, then you have the power. Violence is just a means to an end. I can't help but think of a Robert Hienlein quote. "you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" __________________ Bad spellers of the world untie!!! I am the one you warned me of I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.

10-15-2007, 02:53 PM	#95 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Hi-ho, Crompsin! The ability to do violence leads to its use. We have alternatives, don't we (?) We are as equipped to love as we are to kill. (I love you, though.) __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

10-14-2007, 03:33 PM	#83 (permalink)
analog Banned	Peace is far more powerful than violence. The strongest show of peace will win every time. When a peaceful person lays dead at the hands of a violent person... the violent person has controlled nothing. In fact, they have lost control. They have proven that violence is not absolute power... it is the ultimate display of impotence, compensated for by aggression.

10-15-2007, 05:02 PM	#97 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	But the concept of honor varies from culture to culture. Retreat was a viable option to US soldiers during WWII. Retreat was worse than death to Japanese soldiers. Saving your life is irrelevant if your culture doesn't approve of how you did it. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

10-16-2007, 06:29 AM	#98 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	I will not drag this into goofiness - I hope. Those violent see its utility and those peaceful see its lack. Philosophical differences make all the differences, until violence kills and "wins" until the next go-round, when it'll probably "win" again - if not morally, at least in reality, for a little while. IT IS JUST US HERE, PEOPLE! I hope it's okay to cry. Kudos on this thread, my hero! __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

10-16-2007, 09:27 AM	#99 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Blegch. No kudos should be awarded for this poo-poo. Just a random muse. I simply went with a notion and kept pushing until it was mostly exhausted. Sometimes a debate is more fun when you tout for the side in which you don't actually believe. I suppose it would be a footnote of minor consequence now... but this thread doesn't apply to my personal life philosophy in the over-the-top extreme it is represented here by speculation / conjecture. Despite my former occupation and hobbies, I am not at all a violent person. Sure, crying is okay. "Everybody hurts." ... The awesome people of this forum have helped me learn quite a bit about both the world around me and myself. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 10-16-2007 at 09:33 AM..