Who's to blame? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

bing bing · 06-19-2003, 02:01 AM

If God forgot to warn Adam and Eve of the dangers associated with eating from a particular fruit tree, would they have even noticed it?

Jasmar · 06-19-2003, 07:49 AM

Probably, my guess is that they were trying everything since the world was new to them, but is it really a bad thing to learn the difference between right and wrong, and god being all knowing on what has happend, is happening and will happen must have known they would at somepoint for some reason taste fruit from the tree so maybe that was part of the plan, maybe it was all planned from the begining

Zips · 06-19-2003, 08:05 AM

That's like saying we have no true control over our lives... That's a rather unsettling thought, that I as a human can't control my own destiny. Of course if I believed in God I might be worried about that, but seeing as how that's not an issue with me...

duckznutz · 06-19-2003, 03:37 PM

Zips! For many people, the purpose of beleiving in God is to relieve the burden of working out what life is all about. If you sign up to someone else's philosophy you can can put your feet up and relax. Why worry about it . . . in 100 years none of us will be here.

MacGnG · 06-19-2003, 10:22 PM

i thought the snake did it, didnt the snake give it to eve? but probly not, depending on how big the garden of eden was. if it was huge then probly not if it was small, eventually

raeanna74 · 06-20-2003, 10:45 AM

Some of what I've thought out and heard on this subject is that God told them about it. Granted he new what would happen but he wanted to give them the choice to follow him or not to follow him. He did not want robots to just simply follow because they had no other choice. When you consider the knowledge that he knew what they would do he was not controlling what they would do but more or less it was no worse than a parent who knows a child's pentient for cookies, bakes cookies for the school bake sale, and finds a few cookies missing after leaving them to cool for a while. They knew the child would take some, they may have even instructed them not to but they did not personally control the child's choice. It would be disturbing to think that everything we are going to do is laid out already but technically it isn't it's simply forknown what choice we will make. We ourselves do not know that choice but since it wasn't chosen for us we must take the responsibility for that choice. I know some people even believe that the eternal destiny for our souls has even been chosen for us but it's really simply their circular reasoning that since it is forknown it's already planned and since it's planned (destiny) then it's foreknown. No matter what God or any other Supreme being has planned for us to do we are still making the choices, weighing the pros and cons, and doing what we in our own minds want to do.

FYI. God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit in the center of the garden and even explained why. It wasn't until later that the Satan disguised as a serpent with legs (the serpent supposedly did have legs until God cursed him for tempting Adam and Eve) spoke to Eve. He suggested to her that God was withholding from her the knowledge that the tree would offer her and that the fruit tasted good and looked good. She took a bite and then went to offer it to Adam. She was the first to fall into the trap and she herself tempted Adam. Some believe that he thought of the punishment promised that they would begin to die from the moment they ate of it and did not want to be left alone again as he had been at first. It's possible that he took it knowing he would be punished and not being decieved about it. But that he took it not to be left behind. Once that occured though they were confronted by God and delt out their respective curses, he labor by the sweat of his brow for their sustenance, she pain in chilc birth and subservience to the man, and the serpent for allowing Satan to use him the handicap of being without legs.

I do agree that if God knows what we will do when presented with a temptation then why would he allow that temptation. It seems like trying to get a child to disobey just so you could punish it. I'm still trying to understand that one. If anyone can explain that one it would be appreciated.

Zips · 06-20-2003, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by duckznutz
Zips! For many people, the purpose of beleiving in God is to relieve the burden of working out what life is all about. If you sign up to someone else's philosophy you can can put your feet up and relax. Why worry about it . . . in 100 years none of us will be here.

Basically either there's a God or there isn't. Either he created things or he didn't. Either way it doesn't matter to me. I used to believe that there was a higher power out there, but things have happened where I've lost the faith. This "God" has yet to show me any proof of an actual exsistance. At any rate you just made the fact that I don't believe in God more clearer than what my original post did...

Conclamo Ludus · 06-20-2003, 11:39 PM

No. God telling them not to eat it wouldn't have given Satan any ammo to tempt them with.

XenuHubbard · 06-21-2003, 06:46 AM

The whole "don't eat this apple"-episode is kind of like having dinner with in-laws who hates you. Doesn't matter how good you are, in the end they're going to find a reason to get pissed off with you.

I figure if the apple had fallen off and rottened, God would have said "Good. Very good. You see the banana over there...?"

rogue49 · 06-21-2003, 06:53 AM

simply
the story is the classic metaphor of when a child becomes an adult.

think about it.

Rafajafar · 06-21-2003, 11:23 AM

It's more than just that, to me at least, rogue49.

I've always been intrigued by this aspect of Christianity. Every civilization has a story about how sin was brought into the world. It's rather interesting, the question that he asked. Were Adam and Eve capable of evil prior to eating the apple? What if god HADN'T told them? They still commited an evil act without any real evil intent. What this says to me is that man, as a mere product of free will, is capable of evil, and therefore, is not born good and pure.

Just remember that next time you see that cute little bugger coo at the mobile above him. He could be plotting to take over the world MUAHAHAAHA!

Ahem...

06-19-2003, 02:01 AM	#1 (permalink)
bing bing Addict Location: Melbourne, Australia	Who's to blame? If God forgot to warn Adam and Eve of the dangers associated with eating from a particular fruit tree, would they have even noticed it?

06-19-2003, 08:05 AM	#3 (permalink)
Zips Upright Location: Here	That's like saying we have no true control over our lives... That's a rather unsettling thought, that I as a human can't control my own destiny. Of course if I believed in God I might be worried about that, but seeing as how that's not an issue with me... __________________ Artificial Intelligence is No Match for Natural Stupidity.

06-19-2003, 03:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
duckznutz Addict Location: Brook Cottage, Lanark, Scotland	Zips! For many people, the purpose of beleiving in God is to relieve the burden of working out what life is all about. If you sign up to someone else's philosophy you can can put your feet up and relax. Why worry about it . . . in 100 years none of us will be here. __________________ Where your talents and the needs of the world cross . . there lies your vocation.

06-20-2003, 10:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	Some of what I've thought out and heard on this subject is that God told them about it. Granted he new what would happen but he wanted to give them the choice to follow him or not to follow him. He did not want robots to just simply follow because they had no other choice. When you consider the knowledge that he knew what they would do he was not controlling what they would do but more or less it was no worse than a parent who knows a child's pentient for cookies, bakes cookies for the school bake sale, and finds a few cookies missing after leaving them to cool for a while. They knew the child would take some, they may have even instructed them not to but they did not personally control the child's choice. It would be disturbing to think that everything we are going to do is laid out already but technically it isn't it's simply forknown what choice we will make. We ourselves do not know that choice but since it wasn't chosen for us we must take the responsibility for that choice. I know some people even believe that the eternal destiny for our souls has even been chosen for us but it's really simply their circular reasoning that since it is forknown it's already planned and since it's planned (destiny) then it's foreknown. No matter what God or any other Supreme being has planned for us to do we are still making the choices, weighing the pros and cons, and doing what we in our own minds want to do. FYI. God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit in the center of the garden and even explained why. It wasn't until later that the Satan disguised as a serpent with legs (the serpent supposedly did have legs until God cursed him for tempting Adam and Eve) spoke to Eve. He suggested to her that God was withholding from her the knowledge that the tree would offer her and that the fruit tasted good and looked good. She took a bite and then went to offer it to Adam. She was the first to fall into the trap and she herself tempted Adam. Some believe that he thought of the punishment promised that they would begin to die from the moment they ate of it and did not want to be left alone again as he had been at first. It's possible that he took it knowing he would be punished and not being decieved about it. But that he took it not to be left behind. Once that occured though they were confronted by God and delt out their respective curses, he labor by the sweat of his brow for their sustenance, she pain in chilc birth and subservience to the man, and the serpent for allowing Satan to use him the handicap of being without legs. I do agree that if God knows what we will do when presented with a temptation then why would he allow that temptation. It seems like trying to get a child to disobey just so you could punish it. I'm still trying to understand that one. If anyone can explain that one it would be appreciated. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

06-20-2003, 11:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
Conclamo Ludus Modern Man Location: West Michigan	No. God telling them not to eat it wouldn't have given Satan any ammo to tempt them with. __________________ Lord, have mercy on my wicked soul I wouldn't mistreat you baby, for my weight in gold. -Son House, Death Letter Blues

06-19-2003, 07:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jasmar Crazy	Probably, my guess is that they were trying everything since the world was new to them, but is it really a bad thing to learn the difference between right and wrong, and god being all knowing on what has happend, is happening and will happen must have known they would at somepoint for some reason taste fruit from the tree so maybe that was part of the plan, maybe it was all planned from the begining

06-19-2003, 10:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
MacGnG Know Where!	i thought the snake did it, didnt the snake give it to eve? but probly not, depending on how big the garden of eden was. if it was huge then probly not if it was small, eventually

06-21-2003, 06:46 AM	#9 (permalink)
XenuHubbard Cute and Cuddly Location: Teegeeack.	The whole "don't eat this apple"-episode is kind of like having dinner with in-laws who hates you. Doesn't matter how good you are, in the end they're going to find a reason to get pissed off with you. I figure if the apple had fallen off and rottened, God would have said "Good. Very good. You see the banana over there...?" __________________ The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me. "What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

06-21-2003, 06:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
rogue49 Loser	simply the story is the classic metaphor of when a child becomes an adult. think about it.

06-21-2003, 11:23 AM	#11 (permalink)
Rafajafar Upright Location: Hampton Roads, VA	It's more than just that, to me at least, rogue49. I've always been intrigued by this aspect of Christianity. Every civilization has a story about how sin was brought into the world. It's rather interesting, the question that he asked. Were Adam and Eve capable of evil prior to eating the apple? What if god HADN'T told them? They still commited an evil act without any real evil intent. What this says to me is that man, as a mere product of free will, is capable of evil, and therefore, is not born good and pure. Just remember that next time you see that cute little bugger coo at the mobile above him. He could be plotting to take over the world MUAHAHAAHA! Ahem...