Existential angst - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

mixedmedia · 08-14-2007, 02:42 PM

Actually, I think what roachboy is saying is exactly what the OP needs. Sometimes the truth about one's self comes on harsh. If we're lucky.

pig · 08-14-2007, 03:40 PM

i think this whole recent turn is endearing, but rather idiotic. there was no real backslapping over shared wit, that i was aware of - but i expressed that i enjoy the way roach presents his arguments / positions, then we had a little 'hey haven't seen you in a while, nor you mixed,' all within the context of the thread. perhaps that was posted in the wrong area, but shit happens.

as to the beating up on someone who is new to the tfp, i would have to say that the nature of drews' replies started a confrontational mode of conversation, dave. roach posted some ideas (which i assure you could have been much more thorough) on the OP, and even included some references for back material. it wasn't a 'don't worry sonny, it'll all get better soon' kind of post, but it was on topic. if he is supposed to offer to share in drew's angst, then not only is that impossible if he doesn't share the angst, but that's not really what happens in philo. or if that's what you want, perhaps an OP that is longer than two or three sentences, less combative, and which clearly states the types of desired reply would help?

it is somewhat difficult to respond in many other modes when someone posts a declaration as the OP, which is counter to the opinions / knowledge / experience of other posters. sure, the whole angst thing isn't easy...until you realize it's as easy or hard as you choose to make it. how else could that be expressed, other than in the multitude of ways that have been presented here?

what is, is. you will not find meaning in events which do not contain the kind of meaning you seek. particularly if you have already decided that meaning does not exist. there likely is no everlasting paradise, or if you believe there is one then jolly for you. these are things you accept or you don't. what justice there is to be had in this world must be made by us, and that's just the way it is.

i really don't understand the criticisms, aside from an emotional discourse that is carried over from other threads across the boards, from dave to roach. i don't see underdogs here; i see people with different viewpoints. is roach supposed to express himself in an insincere fashion so that the content can be appropriately filtered? this is ridiculous. as i type this, i find it ridiculous.

and i'm still happy to see roach and mixed post, and i loved the fu-scnikem video. the topic of 'flow' is an interesting and unexpected point for roach to present, in my opinion and experience.

signing off - yours truly,

filtherton · 08-14-2007, 10:04 PM

Damn, i'm sorry i missed this. Any bout i have with existential angst ends the moment i get hungry.

To the op: does distracting yourself with bullshit include reminding yourself constantly about how meaningless everything is? Because if you're truly going to really commit to the idea that everything is ultimately meaningless, then you should acknowledge that that line of thought is itself meaningless and then quit distracting yourself with it.

Quit with the drugs, too.

AYHJA · 08-15-2007, 12:51 AM

If you're serious, then my first guess is that you're somewhat depressed...A distraction is the last way to approach an insecurity, as that same insecurity would probably manifest itself and then be magnified in spite of...

DaveOrion · 08-24-2007, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Damn, i'm sorry i missed this. Any bout i have with existential angst ends the moment i get hungry.

To the op: does distracting yourself with bullshit include reminding yourself constantly about how meaningless everything is? Because if you're truly going to really commit to the idea that everything is ultimately meaningless, then you should acknowledge that that line of thought is itself meaningless and then quit distracting yourself with it.

Quit with the drugs, too.

There may not be a need to continue this thread, havent seen the OPer since. Hope he didnt commit suicide.......that would suck, wouldnt it???

AYHJA · 08-24-2007, 04:14 PM

Certainly be an amazing twist of irony if nothing else...

Plan9 · 08-25-2007, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

There may not be a need to continue this thread, havent seen the OPer since. Hope he didnt commit suicide.......that would suck, wouldnt it???

Lucky!

Johnny Rotten · 08-26-2007, 12:47 PM

Since he hasn't come back, I can only speculate, but it appears to me that he experienced some hard luck and wanted to vent. Unfortunately, his conclusions were philosophically reductionist, which is a bit of a thorny problem in a philosophy forum. To be dismissive of the potential of human achievement will go unnoticed in certain places, but not here.

To his original notion, I simply say: If everyone thought the same as he, we would have destroyed ourselves decades ago, in the midst of the Cold War. There would have been no Civil Rights Act, no desegregation, women's sufferance, Emancipation Proclamation, Declaration of Independence, Glorious Revolution, Magna Carta, Renaissance patronage, or any major turning point that defied the regrettable aspects of human nature. We are where we are because of those things, not despite them; their existence is an illumination, not an anomaly.

Certain decisions have also led to anguish and destruction, sure. The Inquisition, Salem witch trials, the Holocaust, Jim Crow, et al. But what those things establish is not that we are evil or shallow, merely that we are complex and often conflicted and downright stupid. But you can find illumination even in those dark places, rather than glumly accepting them as the status quo.

DaveOrion · 08-26-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Rotten

Since he hasn't come back, I can only speculate, but it appears to me that he experienced some hard luck and wanted to vent. Unfortunately, his conclusions were philosophically reductionist, which is a bit of a thorny problem in a philosophy forum.

I do agree, I only wonder why a mod didnt move this to another forum. Although the OP was philosophical in nature, its fairly obvious to me that he wasnt looking for a debate in philosophy.

mixedmedia · 08-26-2007, 02:02 PM

Because we are not here to psychoanalyze and provide psychological comfort to every person who decides to register here to unload their personal problems. Myself, I didn't perceive from the OP that the writer was on an emotional precipice. Perhaps you did. Everyone responded in a way that they felt was bidden upon them to do so. Doesn't make one right or wrong. I am hoping that you do not believe that anyone participating on this thread would intentionally and maliciously provoke someone they believed to be in an emotionally precarious place.

This is a place to discuss matters of interest regardless of which forum the discussion is taking place in, not group therapy. Personally, as just a participant on this thread, I find your not-so-subtle accusations to be very unfair and I'm not quite sure where they are coming from.

DaveOrion · 08-26-2007, 02:29 PM

I tend to disagree, message boards are very much like group therapy. People come to vent, talk about their problems and ways to over come them. This is basically what group therapy is, a group of people that help each other work through their problems. While thats not all a board is, it is no doubt part of it.
I see members providing psychological comfort to others on a daily basis. Theres a thread on the board right now, "I'm a bit depressed...." which is a perfect example.

I wasnt suggesting that anyone provoked him into doing anything, only that we all might of done more, while he was still here.

mixedmedia · 08-26-2007, 02:41 PM

Well, I see what you are saying, but the group chooses how it reacts to individual issues. It is not mandated that everyone who comes here will find sympathy. Humans are a fickle, unpredictable lot, I suppose. But certainly you have not found TFP to be lacking in tough love before?

I thinks it's commendable that you spoke out for a more sympathetic response to drews' concerns, but a lot of times we will find ourselves at odds with the way people react to certain threads. I know I do - and when I do I say so. It's just part and parcel of the wide diversity of personalities and opinions we have here.

roachboy · 08-26-2007, 03:41 PM

if the genuine distress reading of the op is right--and i have no way of knowing--then routing it through existentialism--even a potted version of it--was probably not the best idea that cat ever had.

he could have read my response as saying: if you re hurting, going about thinking it this way is a bad idea.

i think that was clear.

i'm not sure i understand the point of generating scenarios as to suicide or something else based entirely on negative evidence--or no evidence. well, to put it a bit more harshly, on nothing at all.
it's pointless because (obviously) unless he posts more here, there's no way to know anything.

given that, these concerns appear mostly passive-aggressive critiques of those of us who took the op a bit seriously as what it presented itself as being--a philosophy problem. and a badly framed problem at that.

DaveOrion · 08-26-2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Well, I see what you are saying, but the group chooses how it reacts to individual issues. It is not mandated that everyone who comes here will find sympathy. Humans are a fickle, unpredictable lot, I suppose. But certainly you have not found TFP to be lacking in tough love before?

I thinks it's commendable that you spoke out for a more sympathetic response to drews' concerns, but a lot of times we will find ourselves at odds with the way people react to certain threads. I know I do - and when I do I say so. It's just part and parcel of the wide diversity of personalities and opinions we have here.

Tough love is sometimes necessary, but its normally used with people you know more than a little. I dont think that type of treatment is appropriate for a new member. Maybe thats what he needed, who knows, the point is moot now.

Plan9 · 08-26-2007, 06:41 PM

Idea: I don't come here for any expert opinions.

I come here for people to say, "I hear you, brother."

To know that when I close my eyes that I'm not alone.

mixedmedia · 08-27-2007, 02:15 AM

Well, sure, and sometimes you will get that, sometimes you won't.

C'est la vie. Time to start another thread.

Infinite_Loser · 08-27-2007, 02:18 AM

Wait wait wait... I found the perfect solution to existential angst.

It's called "Going to church"

.

tecoyah · 08-27-2007, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

Wait wait wait... I found the perfect solution to existential angst.

It's called "Going to church"

.

Unfortunately, that solution is far from perfect, as it carries its own special brand of angst. I prefer the Church of...."Deal with It".

Ballzor · 09-08-2007, 02:16 PM

You should cheer my dear friend for the position you've found yourself in is but a step away from enlightenment.

You've concluded that there is no point to life but distraction and death. You need only shift a few details and you've got it. Look, ask yourself what you're distracting. Its obvious 'you' are searching for something more meaningful, yet it still seems as if distraction is all there is. Well my friend understand that you are not your thoughts, emotions, or even your own mind. It is your mind that desires to be distracted, it has control of you and forces you to find it problems and drama to keep it busy. See we humans are overly controlled by our thoughts. we equate thinking with existence, thinking with being. Descartes had it wrong! I think therefore I am, WRONG, You are, therefore you are, thought is but a tool in your repertoire.

If you disassociate yourself from your thoughts, accept that you are deeper than the superficial thoughts that seem to define you, then you will find infinite peace and bliss with the facts of life, mainly death and the distraction that defines most people. Just be conscious of what you're thinking. Be conscious of your brains desire to be distracted and it will lose its power over you. Destroy the ego and you will see the greatest change in your life. Life will never seem more beautiful, tree's never more green, you will cherish every moment and be truly at peace.

Ourcrazymodern? · 09-25-2007, 06:31 AM

I shouldn't have read this all at once. Now I'm even more dizzy than usual.

Valuing my individual packaging and the way it interferes with the ability to understand exactly what any of my fellow human beings are thinking relieves my angst continuously and makes my existence more pleasurable.

Good luck, OP, wherever you are!

Ustwo · 09-25-2007, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

Wait wait wait... I found the perfect solution to existential angst.

It's called "Going to church"

.

Which one there kemo sabe?

ottopilot · 09-25-2007, 09:45 AM

I'm sure this is off topic, but Is angst comparable or preferable to rage?

And would this be considered a trademark infraction if I named my band ...

"Angst Against the Contraption"?

08-14-2007, 02:42 PM	#41 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	Actually, I think what roachboy is saying is exactly what the OP needs. Sometimes the truth about one's self comes on harsh. If we're lucky. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

08-14-2007, 03:40 PM	#42 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	i think this whole recent turn is endearing, but rather idiotic. there was no real backslapping over shared wit, that i was aware of - but i expressed that i enjoy the way roach presents his arguments / positions, then we had a little 'hey haven't seen you in a while, nor you mixed,' all within the context of the thread. perhaps that was posted in the wrong area, but shit happens. as to the beating up on someone who is new to the tfp, i would have to say that the nature of drews' replies started a confrontational mode of conversation, dave. roach posted some ideas (which i assure you could have been much more thorough) on the OP, and even included some references for back material. it wasn't a 'don't worry sonny, it'll all get better soon' kind of post, but it was on topic. if he is supposed to offer to share in drew's angst, then not only is that impossible if he doesn't share the angst, but that's not really what happens in philo. or if that's what you want, perhaps an OP that is longer than two or three sentences, less combative, and which clearly states the types of desired reply would help? it is somewhat difficult to respond in many other modes when someone posts a declaration as the OP, which is counter to the opinions / knowledge / experience of other posters. sure, the whole angst thing isn't easy...until you realize it's as easy or hard as you choose to make it. how else could that be expressed, other than in the multitude of ways that have been presented here? what is, is. you will not find meaning in events which do not contain the kind of meaning you seek. particularly if you have already decided that meaning does not exist. there likely is no everlasting paradise, or if you believe there is one then jolly for you. these are things you accept or you don't. what justice there is to be had in this world must be made by us, and that's just the way it is. i really don't understand the criticisms, aside from an emotional discourse that is carried over from other threads across the boards, from dave to roach. i don't see underdogs here; i see people with different viewpoints. is roach supposed to express himself in an insincere fashion so that the content can be appropriately filtered? this is ridiculous. as i type this, i find it ridiculous. and i'm still happy to see roach and mixed post, and i loved the fu-scnikem video. the topic of 'flow' is an interesting and unexpected point for roach to present, in my opinion and experience. signing off - yours truly, __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

08-26-2007, 12:47 PM	#48 (permalink)
Johnny Rotten lost and found Location: Berkeley	Since he hasn't come back, I can only speculate, but it appears to me that he experienced some hard luck and wanted to vent. Unfortunately, his conclusions were philosophically reductionist, which is a bit of a thorny problem in a philosophy forum. To be dismissive of the potential of human achievement will go unnoticed in certain places, but not here. To his original notion, I simply say: If everyone thought the same as he, we would have destroyed ourselves decades ago, in the midst of the Cold War. There would have been no Civil Rights Act, no desegregation, women's sufferance, Emancipation Proclamation, Declaration of Independence, Glorious Revolution, Magna Carta, Renaissance patronage, or any major turning point that defied the regrettable aspects of human nature. We are where we are because of those things, not despite them; their existence is an illumination, not an anomaly. Certain decisions have also led to anguish and destruction, sure. The Inquisition, Salem witch trials, the Holocaust, Jim Crow, et al. But what those things establish is not that we are evil or shallow, merely that we are complex and often conflicted and downright stupid. But you can find illumination even in those dark places, rather than glumly accepting them as the status quo. __________________ "The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine

08-26-2007, 02:02 PM	#50 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	Because we are not here to psychoanalyze and provide psychological comfort to every person who decides to register here to unload their personal problems. Myself, I didn't perceive from the OP that the writer was on an emotional precipice. Perhaps you did. Everyone responded in a way that they felt was bidden upon them to do so. Doesn't make one right or wrong. I am hoping that you do not believe that anyone participating on this thread would intentionally and maliciously provoke someone they believed to be in an emotionally precarious place. This is a place to discuss matters of interest regardless of which forum the discussion is taking place in, not group therapy. Personally, as just a participant on this thread, I find your not-so-subtle accusations to be very unfair and I'm not quite sure where they are coming from. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

08-26-2007, 02:29 PM	#51 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	I tend to disagree, message boards are very much like group therapy. People come to vent, talk about their problems and ways to over come them. This is basically what group therapy is, a group of people that help each other work through their problems. While thats not all a board is, it is no doubt part of it. I see members providing psychological comfort to others on a daily basis. Theres a thread on the board right now, "I'm a bit depressed...." which is a perfect example. I wasnt suggesting that anyone provoked him into doing anything, only that we all might of done more, while he was still here. __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

08-14-2007, 10:04 PM	#43 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Damn, i'm sorry i missed this. Any bout i have with existential angst ends the moment i get hungry. To the op: does distracting yourself with bullshit include reminding yourself constantly about how meaningless everything is? Because if you're truly going to really commit to the idea that everything is ultimately meaningless, then you should acknowledge that that line of thought is itself meaningless and then quit distracting yourself with it. Quit with the drugs, too.

08-15-2007, 12:51 AM	#44 (permalink)
AYHJA Upright Location: Stark-Vegas	If you're serious, then my first guess is that you're somewhat depressed...A distraction is the last way to approach an insecurity, as that same insecurity would probably manifest itself and then be magnified in spite of...

08-24-2007, 04:14 PM	#46 (permalink)
AYHJA Upright Location: Stark-Vegas	Certainly be an amazing twist of irony if nothing else...

08-26-2007, 02:41 PM	#52 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	Well, I see what you are saying, but the group chooses how it reacts to individual issues. It is not mandated that everyone who comes here will find sympathy. Humans are a fickle, unpredictable lot, I suppose. But certainly you have not found TFP to be lacking in tough love before? I thinks it's commendable that you spoke out for a more sympathetic response to drews' concerns, but a lot of times we will find ourselves at odds with the way people react to certain threads. I know I do - and when I do I say so. It's just part and parcel of the wide diversity of personalities and opinions we have here. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

08-26-2007, 03:41 PM	#53 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	if the genuine distress reading of the op is right--and i have no way of knowing--then routing it through existentialism--even a potted version of it--was probably not the best idea that cat ever had. he could have read my response as saying: if you re hurting, going about thinking it this way is a bad idea. i think that was clear. i'm not sure i understand the point of generating scenarios as to suicide or something else based entirely on negative evidence--or no evidence. well, to put it a bit more harshly, on nothing at all. it's pointless because (obviously) unless he posts more here, there's no way to know anything. given that, these concerns appear mostly passive-aggressive critiques of those of us who took the op a bit seriously as what it presented itself as being--a philosophy problem. and a badly framed problem at that. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

08-26-2007, 06:41 PM	#55 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Idea: I don't come here for any expert opinions. I come here for people to say, "I hear you, brother." To know that when I close my eyes that I'm not alone. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

08-27-2007, 02:15 AM	#56 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	Well, sure, and sometimes you will get that, sometimes you won't. C'est la vie. Time to start another thread. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

08-27-2007, 02:18 AM	#57 (permalink)
Infinite_Loser Junkie Location: Lake Mary, FL	Wait wait wait... I found the perfect solution to existential angst. It's called "Going to church" . __________________ I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

09-25-2007, 06:31 AM	#60 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	I shouldn't have read this all at once. Now I'm even more dizzy than usual. Valuing my individual packaging and the way it interferes with the ability to understand exactly what any of my fellow human beings are thinking relieves my angst continuously and makes my existence more pleasurable. Good luck, OP, wherever you are! __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

09-25-2007, 09:45 AM	#62 (permalink)
ottopilot let me be clear Location: Waddy Peytona	I'm sure this is off topic, but Is angst comparable or preferable to rage? And would this be considered a trademark infraction if I named my band ... "Angst Against the Contraption"?