Average_Joe

Today is my daughter's 1st birthday. For my wife, this is both a happy day and a sad day. Her last baby is growing up and she's taking it a bit hard. Over the last couple of months she has made it known that she wants to have another baby, but I'm not sold on the idea.

We have 4 kids all under the age of 8 years. Before we conceived my daughter, we both understood that this would be the last one. I'm in my late 30's, and want to move on with the children we have, raise them, give them a good life, and then do some travelling and spend quality time with my wife before I get too old. My wife is in her early 30's, and is a great mom who enjoys her work taking care of the kids at home. In her heart, she is not finished having babies. She really enjoys going through the entire process of being pregnant, giving birth, nursing, and the closeness it brings us by going through such an amazing event together.

I'm wondering if there is anyone in this fine community who has been through this situation, and how you handled it. Both male and female perspectives are encouraged.

Derwood

That's a tough situation. We're set with just 2, and we're both in our very early 30's. Most of the other dads I hang out with have kids 4 or under and are in their mid-40's. I wouldn't want to be 60 when my kid is graduating high school. Heck, my dad is 60 and has 3 grandkids. Right now, my younger will graduate high school when I'm 48, so the wife and I should be back to empty-nesting by our early 50's.

Luckily we see eye-to-eye about the # of kids. 2 has been tiring, I can't imagine 4 (or 5). My take is that if your wife is feeling sad about your youngest turning one (thus wanting another), might she feel that way again when baby #5 turns 1? Could be a never ending cycle...

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Cynthetiq

You understood this would be the last one. She may have said it, but she obviously doesn't mean it since she's now making it known she wants to have another one.

When are you two going to enjoy what you talked about enjoying things together befor you got too old. Well, before you know it, you're children will have children, which you'll want to be around for, so you'll curtail these future travels yet again.

YMMV but this is what I see my parents doing via my sister's two children.

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genuinegirly

She is a baby junkie. It has happened to many women that I have interacted with. I have no children, so I do not entirely understand her perspective.

Let me make my stance plain as day. This will sound harsh:

She is going back on an agreement.


time to get your tubes tied if she wants more. She is an addict. If she has trouble with your response, suggest counseling. take the initiative and don't let her end up with another one. Find ways to be close and give her attention so she doesn't see that being pregnant is the only way to obtain special treatment

4 kids is enough. Time to say a firm, but loving "NO."

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ratbastid

Tell her it's not a uter-YOU, it's a uter-US.

Thanks. I'll be here all week.

Gatorade Frost

But remember, it's vasecto-me.

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Bill O'Rights

Alright...how long have you been saving that?

I'm starting to feel like I should've paid a cover to get in here tonight.

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ngdawg

I can understand it. She's addicted to babies. At least she started saying she wanted 'just one more' at a year-I said let's do it again when my twins were 3 weeks old.
If you really don't want any more (and I certainly can see your point-4 is a lot-I'm the oldest of 4), make that really clear. Then get a vasectomy. It's possible she's lamenting the end of infancy in the youngest. I know my mother was very sad when my brother wasn't a baby any more, knowing he was the last one. She had foster parent papers filled out, thought about adoption...the fear of not having a baby in the house was that strong for her. And I think on some level, churning out babies might make her feel like she's not getting older and that she's still productive.
There's physical downsides to constantly having babies as well so although the whole process is an enjoyable thing, it really ruins a woman's body in the long run. And at some point, she WILL have to stop. Take it from someone who had kids late in life-stopping early will only benefit both of you down the line, in married life together, physically for her and even for the kids you now have.

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analog

She's a baby junkie. Good luck on trying to get her to honor the "agreement" you had about this being the last baby.

Remind her that she's got lots of mothering years ahead of her, and you already have 4 kids to love and watch grow.

Then, as soon as she is in an agreeable mood, get snipped. This way, she can't change her mind again.

Toaster126

Get snipped. I've seen far too many nice women do terrible terrible things when men are involved.

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tecoyah

I got snipped for exactly this reason....(well and worry free sex)...but I have found the babylust fades, returns, fades again, returns, fades....etc...

Just make sure you wait until this session of babylust fades before discussing the snip job with wifey, and make sure you are both in agreement.

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absorbentishe

My wife and I have 4 kids, and she still wants more. This has been a struggle for me. Our kids are 3 years apart, and when our youngest hit that age (until July she'll be 4), she has begged me for another. She love being preggers, loves it. After our last was a year, I had the plumbing turned off, end of story. She agreed it was best. But, she still wants more. She thought about being a surrogate(sp?), but I've talked her out of that. Now she'd like to addopt, and I'm not sold on that. I'd love to addopt, but, I want our children to be older first. The oldest is 13.
About once a week, she'll beg for another baby, but I remind her that we can't and I don't want another as we spoke about before. You need to rationalize with her if you can, but it's tough.

sarahk

I've got two kids and until the little one was about 3 I'd get extremely clucky and then absolutely appalled with myself. I'd write down long lists of why having more was a bad, bad idea and there would be nothing on the other side of the paper yet the hormones would rage and totally overrule the big, long list. Even now I get waves of it but age and exhaustion mean that it's not a torment anymore. I couldn't go back to the baby stage - and maybe your wife just needs time to get there too...

Sage

Well, first of all having that many kids will totally take its toll on her body. Popping them out a year or two apart is totally hard on her body, and it's going to start catching up to her later. Also, FIVE KIDS? That's an INSANE financial responsibility- and unless you're both neurosurgeons, how in the crap are you going to pay for another kid? Are you planning on giving your kids money to go to college? What if one of them wants to spend a summer studying abroad in high school?

I think you need to TALK TO YOUR WIFE. See what she has to say about this whole having another baby thing, and then talk to her and tell her how you feel about it. Tell her that you want to spend some time with her baby-free. If it seems like it's just a hormonal thing, be as understanding as possible, and perhaps suggest going to a marriage counselor about it if you two can't reach an agreement that's mutually acceptable. Talk to your wife, not us- have a nice chat and clear the air with her- she is your wife after all!

Also, be careful when you have sex with her. You might say you don't want one but she's the one with the ability to get pregnant, and you need to make sure she's not going to drastic measures (turkey baster anyone?).

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Daoust

Our second one is due any minute now, and I'm happy with 2, but I think my wife wants three. I'm not totally against the idea of three, but I know after three we'll both me done.

As for advice, I think you're best to wait a while. Give her some time. Let the dust settle. And if she want's more kids, well, perhaps try these three failsafe words:

I am gay.

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Willravel

If you have a 1 year old, then you're going to be raisng that child for another 18+ years. Do you see a big difference between 18+ years and 19+ years? If so, then I'd say you should put your foot down. If not, then go for it.

Martian

I'm going to expand on willravel a bit; these days it's more common for raising a child to be a 22, 23 or even 24 year commitment as children go to school, take more courses, get more education etc. I'm definitely among the exceptions of my generation for having left home at 18. You characterize yourself as in your mid-thirties - that means you'll be raising any new children into your fifties, possibly even sixties.

I don't recommend getting snipped right away. It's a pretty big step and is difficult if not impossible to reverse, should the occasion arise. I'd suggest sitting down and having a very serious discussion with the wife - make sure you raise all the issues, like age, financial obligations, future plans (retirement) and anything else you can think of. From where I sit there's a lot of very good reasons not to have another child, but it's possible that you may decide you want to go ahead with it after discussion. More likely is that if you decide against, you'll eliminate the possibility of your wife feeling like you've gone behind her back.

Good luck.

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Lady Sage

Reality check, yours cleared hers bounced. 5 kids is far too much stress on your wallet and her body. Having children that close together can result in early osteoporosis(among other things). I am not a fan of suggesting counseling but.....

Toaster126

I don't think there needs to be agreement. It's his body, and his decision to not have more spawnings... and it takes two people to make those kids.

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"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

raeanna74

Is she by any chance also afraid of going back into the workforce when the kids are schoolage?? I know this is one of many reasons I considered having another child.

Otherwise, The baby addiction part does fade.

What would she feel about taking on some babysitting at home? Just one baby would give her some of that baby fix that she's craving without the two of you loosing too much sleep from having a baby there 24/7. I do home childcare and love it, partly for that reason.

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bermuDa

She feels that her last baby is growing up? The other three are still under eight years old, NONE of them have grown up yet! She needs to slow her roll, so to speak. Four kids should be enough to handle. For me, two would almost be too much to worry about, but I'm not going to try to dictate how many kids people should have.

If you do decide to have another, you probably shouldn't wait more than another year or so... but I don't think that's what you want. Time to put your foot down and tell her to concentrate on the chilluns she already has!

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tecoyah

While this is true....communication, and agreement on such a major life issue will go a long way towards a happy life together.

tecoyah does not enjoy getting bit in the ass....unless it is invited

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Derwood

My mother-in-law was a little like this. She had two children naturally and has adopted two. My father-in-law is now 60 and my mother-in-law is 57 and they still have a 19 year old and a 13 year old at home. Fine for them, I guess, but they clearly don't have the energy to deal with the 13 year old, particularly since she has some learning disabilities and is generally a pain in the ass.

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Redlemon

Well, a baby's love is unconditional and simple. That goes away, and is replaced with other types of love as a child matures.

Perhaps she should get a dog, they don't really grow up.

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Meditrina

I have been thinking alot about this thread and how I should reply. My husband was very happy with just one child, he did not want anymore. (I have video to prove he indeed was a happy, involved father when we only had our daughter). I always wanted to have 2. Not really sure what my reasons where, it was just something I felt in my heart. We had talked about it and agreed if we did have a second child it would have to wait until our daughter was in kindergarten and no longer needed daycare. I guess that gave my husband too long to think about it and he went back to only wanting the one. September 2001 rolls around (daughter was starting kindergarten September 2002) and the talks began again. I sat at the kitchen table and took off my fake nails, trying to show him that certain things can be given up so we can have another baby. I went to bed crying that night, he still said no. During the night, he came to bed and told me he wanted another. I didn't believe him until the next morning he told our daughter. We got pregnant 1 1/2 months later. Our son was born 1 month before our daughter went to kindergarten.

Jump ahead to the present. Our son is almost 4 now. My husband is not as involved with the kids as he used to be. Does he resent having our son? Did he lie to me way back then? He says he has not, but it makes you wonder. I probably could elaborate more on this. and I know you will say I should talk to him about it, but he does not share his feelings with me so easily. and really, it is too late now. Many times I feel if I had not convinced him to have another baby, things would be so different. Maybe my daughter would be happier, maybe our family would be happier.

I think my point is: if you really do not want another baby, then you should not have one. Do not tell her you do, if you know you really don't.

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Toaster126

Oh, of course. I didn't mean to imply any different. I was just trying to subtly bring in the abortion arguement in the reverse side.

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"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Average_Joe

Thank you all for your wonderful advice and personal stories. You have helped enforce my understanding how complex and difficult this issue can be. The advice ranges from "get snipped now!!!" to "your feelings could change, so wait a while before getting snipped".

Based on your suggestions, and my own feelings about this, I will continue to stand firm on my decision, and try to be more understanding about my wife's feelings. I think many of you are right when you say my wife is having trouble dealing with the finality of childbirth. I think addict/junkie might be too strong, but there are some psychological or hormonal obstacles that she has to overcome. I will continue to rationalize with her why we should stop, although being rational does not always overcome matters of the heart. I also know that as long as I veto this idea, I will win by stalemate. However, I would rather try to convince my wife to share my point of view.

By the way, I actually did have a vascectomy scheduled twice, but both times I had to cancel due to uncontrolled circumstances (an emergency business trip and my father's death). In fact, my wife made the appointments for me!!!! This was before the whole 5th baby yearning. How ironic!

MajorHart

I've had a lot of experience with this. 8 male friends of mine in Tacoma were dating or got married. All wanted to wait a few years before starting a family OR they didn't want a family at all and made it clear before the wedding and were assured that was fine.

3 of the girlfriends got pregnant and all three guys married them (who knows who got them pregnant because they wanted to get pregnant so badly) 4 married and the wives were pregnant within 3 or 4 months - also after agreeing to wait and talk about it for a few years.

And the other was happy.

One of the girlfriends said after getting married - I'm going to have 4 or more kids and if you don't like it - I'll get them some other way and you will still be responsible to support them.

Who know how many actually did get pregnant with someone else - after all it's still 50% the womans.

There are a lot of women who don't operate that way but for these guys - all but the one were unhappy. I have lost contact with them all since I left the area but that affected my attitude and I'm now married for almost 40 years with a great woman that didn't want any kids. I'm extremely happy about that.

I've read over and over and over again on various forums that the women talk of punching a hole in the condom or getting pregnant outside the marriage or even RESENTING the husband the rest of their lives - and LEAVING HIM.

I agree that this is a very strong compulsion but there's two people here and if they make a committment they should keep it.

I advise the guys to get out while you still can. A vasectomy would be good but it might not stop the baby machine because she's still pregnant and you're still legally responsible.

I recommend against ever getting married - very few will be as lucky as I was.

Strangely enough - I've had a lot of women agree with me - but not most.

Thanks

MajorHart
-----Added 28/10/2008 at 11 : 15 : 03-----
She's 50% of the equation and she can get pregnant down at the local bar anytime.

I dated quite awhile and got dumped because I wouldn't have sex with my girlfriend. She had such a desire for a "big family" that I was afraid to have sex with her. I also would not marry her because of the same reason.

I've read than some women go to a bar and say to everybody they meet - if you're not wanting kids or not right away - don't talk to me - I'm not interested in you.

I find that a total turnoff.


I also believe a man and his wife should be first to each other and the children second -in far too many situations it's the opposite.

MajorHart majorhart@sbcglobal.net
-----Added 28/10/2008 at 11 : 23 : 48-----
Good luck Joe - you might have to part. You're already giving up most of your useful adult life and another baby could tie you down for the rest. Most men have some things they would like to do with their lives other than raise kids - most of us would like to include our wives but many wives have no interest in anything else but having babies.

So consider that option too - you have but ONE LIFE.

genuinegirly

Major Heart, what an excellent first post.

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abaya

Man, this thread produced a visceral reaction for me. Who ARE these women who are DYING to have another baby, after already having 4?! (Oh wait, Sarah Palin is one of them, right?... went to fertility treatments at age 40 for her 5th child, how necessary.) Anyway, I'm already anti-baby enough at age 29... I can't stand being around them. I also strongly dislike the idea of being pregnant and giving birth... why would anyone want to go through that 5 times?! And then the next several years of pooping, peeing, puking, and whining, with the occasional "awww, that's so cute" moment to sustain the illusion? Uggh. (Yes, I'm extemely cynical about babies.)

So yeah, can you tell that I'm still very, very far from being ready to have children? I am totally flabbergasted by the idea of women wanting to put themselves through this kind of trauma... yes, both of my grandmothers had 10 children, but they had no choice. I think I might have killed myself or gone into a nunnery if I were them, actually.

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little_tippler

I want kids but no more than 2 if I can help it. Only situation I'd change my mind for is if there were two girls or two boys already and I or the father decided we really would like at least one girl/boy. That's it.

I am pretty direct when in a relationship about what I want and what I'll be flexible about. It just saves a lot of heartache later.

I think that your wife can't force you into doing this. It's a joint decision. If she is so set on it, then she'll have to choose which is more important to her. Another baby, or you and the family she has currently. If she chooses one more child, it just seems selfish. She already has 4!

Maybe you can try and reason with her...4 children under 8 is already a handful. That's 4 kids to divide both your time, finances, attention, affection between. In a way, it's selfish to the already existing kids to take more time etc. away from them with yet another sibling. What is her motivation to have another? Just because she likes them more when they're babies? Because she likes being pregnant? Because that's the only time she feels happy with herself? She should deal with her insecurities there. You can't always get what you want - especially when it's only beneficial to you and potentially harmful to everyone else you love. That's part of growing up.

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Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
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And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

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curiousbear

I dont want children because I think there is hardly any goodness in me to go in that direction. But due to social pressure I am going to do it.

Abaya, we and the babyjunkies are exactly same just in the opposite direction.

Plan9

Hell, I'm confused at why people have more than one kid.

Too expensive, too noisy, and the planet could with less humans.
-----Added 2/11/2008 at 04 : 44 : 03-----
+1

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Dexter Morgan

God, are you serious? I mean, my son was cute as hell when he was a tiny thing - but then he again, he shat, he vomited, he cried when I wanted to sleep, he made un-Christly messes everywhere, he scared me every time he so much as burped. Now that he's five, he's independent, he can do things for himself, he can wake up in the morning and more or less occupy himself playing with Legos so that I can get a titch more sleep on weekends, he goes to school so that I can have a job outside the house. This stage is great, and I don't think I'd ever want to repeat infancy by having another one (and that's not even MENTIONING the utter smoldering HELL that is childbirth).

Fucking hell, four kids. My response would be thus: "Babe, you're a great mother and all (I assume), but you've got to understand that while you're busy savoring the infancy stages and yearning for more as soon as the youngest grows older, you've got four other children who still need a mother. We've only so much time and so many resources to give. I'm having my junk snipped and I suggest you buy a puppy."

abaya

Yeah, except we live in reality and refuse to delude ourselves that these things are going to become our precious little snowflakes and we will love and adore them forever and ever. THANK YOU!!! I was actually SO pleased to read this, especially from someone who's actually been down that road and knows exactly what the reality is. I sooo wish I could post this on Facebook to show all of my 30-year-old friends who currently have 2.6 children and expect everyone to gush and adore and worship their precious snowflakes.

(Once again, folks... don't worry, I'm not becoming a parent anytime soon, whatsoever. For all of the above reasons!!)

I wonder what happened to the OP, though?... it's a kind of old thread.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

highthief

The basic desire to spread one's genetic seed far and wide?

We've got one child and came to the conclusion that we'd like another - as much for our daughter as for anything else. My brothers don't and won't have kids, her brother has one and that's probably it, and we're both the youngest in our families. Our daughter won't have much family around in another generation and that's, IMO, a rotten place to be.

So, lots of sex right now!

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

Plan9

Too bad I can see beyond my hot throbbing genetic desires to the fact that my genes aren't all that special.

...

Humans: A general disease to planet Earth with horrible impulse control.

SEE: Afghan birth rate 2000 to 2008.
SEE: Education level as birth control.
SEE: Africa and Feed-Another-Useless-Extra hotlines.

...

Why not just keep it at the number of kids you already have (or stick with one) and use the additional time and money and effort to make sure that one kid has a happy, well-rounded childhood (cubscouts, travel, big wheel, learns languages) and gets a top notch education (college) instead of having X+ kids and living on Ramen and cheap DVDs to keep them occupied?

...

Just because you can reproduce doesn't mean you should. Gah, the idea really makes me shiver with disgust.

SEE: White Trash Revelation: Why we should regulate crotches, not firearms and automobiles.
SEE: Idiocracy (Mike Judge movie from a few years back)

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

highthief

You're right, you're genes aren't very special and they'll probably die out.

But you perhaps did not absorb what I wrote - one of the reasons we will try to have another child is to increase the quality of life of our daughter. Why you would think that having a second or third child would decrease quality of life for the first is mystifying. Having siblings to play with, to learn from, and with whom one will (hopefully) enjoy strong lifetime relationships seems a much better course of action than being alone with only aging parents to count on and to entertain the child. I love my daughter beyond all reason, as many parents might relate to, but I can't be there for her all the time. There's a limited number of times I can play Barbie with her.

Yes, financially, a second child brings extra burdens, for sure. But you know, my parents grew up first in the Depression and then with the Luftwaffe trying to bomb them into oblivion. And I grew up in a 3-bed apartment amongst a family of five - not the high life, to be sure. But hey, we all got by, even if we weren't eating foie gras nightly.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Dizzy24

......I am being the same as some of these women, I have 2 lovely children, my husband always wanted 1, it took ages to persuade him for no.2 , he was reluctant throughout the pregnancy and when our daughter was born he did fall in love with her but took quite a while to 'bond', unlike our first born, a boy.
Apparently I promised him I would never nag for more, here I am with my 7 yr old son and 4 yr old daughter and desperate for '1 more', I have raised the issue so many times over the last 2 yrs he is sick of it and reminds me of my 'promise'. Thing is I cant get past this baby urge, I desperatly want to and move on but keep hoping he will change his mind.

Am I being unreasonable?

genuinegirly

Honestly, yes. I believe you are being unreasonable. Since your husband says you have promised not to "nag" about wanting another child, you should set aside a time with your husband to discuss your desire. At that time, present your argument for another child by showing your husband in concrete terms what it would mean financially and emotionally for every member of your current family if you were to have another child. Include any appliccable medical and educational expenses. Explain in depth what advantages another child in the family would mean to your current children, as well as potential disadvantages. Lay everything out in front of your husband, put it all out on the table. Draw up charts, dig up financial records, have testimonials from families with three children - whatever you think will make a convincing case for having another child.

At the end of your discussion, if your husband is still not interested, drop it and pursue other dreams.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy