noahfor

i believe that there is more than what there appears to be, and that consciousness or personality has something to do with it, but that it is mind bogglingly complex and much harder to understand and more fitting and mystical and other things than a dude with magic powers

abaya

I have looked at this thread many times, and I have never been able to answer the poll. I feel I would betray myself if I did choose one or the other.

Perhaps that makes me an agnostic, I don't know... but I still feel connected to "god," the oversoul, what-have-you. I have a complex spiritual view, however... hard to explain here. It involved asymptotes... humanity always attempting to reach the axes, the absolute, but never actually able to do so. And yet, there exists an anchor within the veil that separates us from Truth... but so many of us deny its existence. I don't know the place of "god" in this worldview... but I don't have much reason to exclude god from the picture, either. Why would I choose to be so violent and exclusive in my own vision of the world, when I cannot tolerate the same actions in other religious views?

As an anthropologist, I cannot believe that my view is the only correct one... nor can I judge those whose views differ from mine. To me, there is no harm in simply believing in "god," and in fact, there is often a great deal of benefit to nurturing one's spiritual life (see numerous sociological studies, even those published in peer-reviewed journals). There is also no harm in *not* believing in god... so long as one nurtures the life of the spirit, I believe, and does not harm others or the self.

In any case, I was rather the opposite of redOblivia, in that I was raised as a good non-believer (with smatterings of Theravada Buddhism and Catholicism), but became a Christian at age 14. From then until I was about 22, I was a hard-core evangelical. This faith was never forced on me. I always chose it for myself; in fact, my parents actually converted because I took them to church, and not the other way around (we are talking about people in their 40's and 50's, here). I chose to attend an evangelical university, and I threw myself into those years with a great passion. Nothing would have turned me away from the Lord, I thought (and so did my friends, and parents)... unless I myself would choose to walk away.

Which I did, with great resistance in myself. Having taken in and swallowed evangelical Christianity throughout my teen/college years, I believed that to stray from the path was to give in to temptation, the corrupted self, and evil itself. It took many years of reverse brainwashing and reading of all kinds of scholarly thought, as well as simply allowing myself to *think* and *feel* and even pray and ask God for guidance, to grow out of that stage in my life. It was a natural evolution. I still value that time very much in my life, especially the degree to which I was able to immerse myself so fully in something... I really came to know it inside and out, something I have not been able to do since. But I would never go back.

And it's not that I've become an atheist, other than perhaps intellectually... but in my soul, I can never be an atheist. As many others have said here, there is just too much going on for it to be all about me, all about what's right in front of us. And yet... there is heaven, right there. Right in front of us, in the present, and simultaneously includes us while being a great deal bigger than us or our comprehension of it. In the words of William Blake: there's a world in grain of sand, and heaven in a wild flower. Heaven is all around us, existing in each moment of the good life. Hell exists when we hurt one another. Do we need any more motivation to treat each other well?

If there's a god for me, it's that one... the god of Now, of the present. I don't mean to promote hedonism; maybe secular humanism is closer. I cannot believe in an afterlife of heaven and hell, or any kind of punishment-based system. If there is anything after death, I believe it will be more of an energy shift, from our humanly body into that of the earth or the universe at large. Perhaps without consciousness, or perhaps with. But it cannot matter right now, because all we have is the present. My god is the one I find here, now, today in front of me.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Toaster126

I believe someone out there doesn't have to play by the rules. I believe I am far too awesome to cease to exist when I die. I consider myself a Christian (I believe in Jesus and all that) but accept the possiblity that when you have faith, you can be wrong.

And really, I'd be much more comfortable with Christianity if Jesus wasn't involved.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

dd3953

i can not say i think that we (as people or the things we evolved from) just one day appeared. i think there was one Being that created us all. i don't believe in one specific faith, but i believe that all faiths are worshipping the same Being. but us, the thinking beings we are, have broken that Being down into many different ideas, parts, and faiths; leading to many different churches.

that i can laugh at that becuase i understand, we may have traveled different roads, but we have stopped at the same bench

__________________
[Technically, I'm not possible, I'm made of exceptions. ]

water_bug

I absolutley beleive in God. My rational does not come from being force fed relegion but rather this: Life is too complex and intertwined to simply be a collection of coincidences.

captobvious

It's kind of ironic, but I don't believe in God for the same reason you do. I feel that life is too complex and intertwined to simply be explained by (the Christian) God. For me randomness and chance provide a better explanation.

Gonth

Brings to mind something I heard once, can't remember where.

"It takes just as much faith to believe in a thing as to Not believe in a thing"
--Unknown

We have no proof either way and defining my life based on a list of morals set down thousands of years ago just doesn't seem like a good way to go. I'll live my life the way I feel like it should be lived and should there be a god I'm hoping he likes my decisions. ^_^

__________________
You are the most important person in your world

777

To me, God left. He come, made a world, wacthed over it for a few thousand years, and like when the baby bird must leave the nest to find it's place in the world, it's our turn too. Maybe God(s) are off on other projects, or on vacation, but it's time to find our place out here.

__________________
"I don't know that I ever wanted greatness, on its own. It seems rather like wanting to be an engineer, rather than wanting to design something - or wanting to be a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip."

Roger Zelazny

Mephisto2

No.

I honestly can't think why one would. I can't understand "blind faith". If God existed, why would he/she let so much injustice in the world occur? I respect religion, and I attend Mass with my wife and new baby due to that respect, but I have no faith myself. I simply don't understand how and why anyone would have.

It's a pity really. I'm not looking forward to dying, but that's life (if you'll pardon the pun).


Mr Mephisto

duckznutz

I believe God exists in exactly the same way that all other abtsract concepts exist . . . . . . like love, hate, jealousy, luck etc etc. but rather than split hairs I ticked 'no' in keeping with the presumed spirit of the question.

Even people who do believe in god dont actually believe God 'physically' exists . . . . . . . . . its like believing the earth is flat or the world is only 100,000 years old!

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Where your talents and the needs of the world cross . . there lies your vocation.

Average_Joe

I do believe god exists. There are too many things out there that can't be explained by the sciences.

connyosis

Such as? (Not trying to pick a fight, just curious)

No, I don't believe in God. I have no problems with people that do however.

__________________
If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.

duckznutz

I have heard this said before but I never quite follow the logic. If something cant be explained then it cant be explained. I dont think human beings should fear the unexplained and seek to invent explanation. Its a denial of our limitations.

__________________
Where your talents and the needs of the world cross . . there lies your vocation.

MINCKEN

NO
I believe that religion, generally speaking, has been a curse to mankind - that its modest and greatly overestimated services on the ethical side have been more than overcome by the damage it has done to clear and honest thinking.
I believe that no discovery of fact, however trivial, can be wholly useless to the race, and that no trumpeting of falsehood, however virtuous in intent, can be anything but vicious.
I believe that all government is evil, in that all government must necessarily make war upon liberty...
I believe that the evidence for immortality is no better than the evidence of witches, and deserves no more respect.
I believe in the complete freedom of thought and speech...
I believe in the capacity of man to conquer his world, and to find out what it is made of, and how it is run.
I believe in the reality of progress.
I - But the whole thing, after all, may be put very simply. I believe that it is better to tell the truth than to lie. I believe that it is better to be free than to be a slave. And I believe that it is better to know than be ignorant.

Mantus

Wow. There is a "Do you believe in God" thread that I haven't posted in?!

No I do not believe in God. Or rather I don't need to believe in God. This is how I think of it.

There are people who wish to end their pursuit of knowledge with an answer and those who are fine ending their quest with a question.

See, God gives you an answer, but even religious people know that you can keep asking questions. They simply choose to end things there and have "faith" that their answer is the only one they need.

I am perfectly happy ending my quest for knowledge with a question. Anotherwords I don't mind leaving things un-explained. Infact I can't imagine living in a world were everything was neatly wrapped up and understood.

tecoyah

Sure...I believe in God.....Just not "Your" God

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Sun Tzu

I couldnt answer; because I cant say for sure one way or the other. I don't believe the Bible, Koran, or anything else written by men that dictate control through force and fear.

So much of science makes sense, but offers little comfort. When I try and think about what was before time, and what lies beyond the boundries of the expanding universe, I feel there maybe something higher than all of us.

I guess the best statement I can make is I want to believe in God.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Bolla

I don't believe in God. Why? I can't see him. If he brings me a case of beer I might change my mind.

Seeing is believing folks. With the exception of photoshopped images.

Mark23

I think the intelligence of the audience is also a good predictor of the results. Not to say all religious people are stupid, but in general most strongly religious people are somewhat less intellient that most atheists.

By placing the poll on a forum like this one, you are presenting it to quite a sophisticated, educated audience. If you were to apply the same poll to the general public, you would find around two thirds would believe in god.

Ch'i

I find it improbable that the authors of ancient holy written word, such as the Bible, Koran, or Dharma, were infallible. So I will always be open minded to personal vindication of his existence, and I believe he is very different from the way he is commonly described.

I do believe in God, but think he exists in a way I won't expect.

kurtisj

right on the head. religion was created as an attempt to keep people in line.

__________________
Marvin the Mountie Always Gets His Kurtisj.

Lady Sage

To which "god" does the poll concern?

The christian "god"
or can it relate to ANY "god" in any pantheon?

Gilda

Keep in mind that not believing God exists is not the same as believing God does not exist. It's a common logical mistake to assume that "not A" = -A" when this is not the case.

The agnostic and athiest beliefs are both "not A" in this instance, but only atheism is "-A". Both exist in the area of not believing there is a god, but only the latter makes the extra claim that none exists. As belief in God is an affirmative belief, anything "not A" is encapsuled by the "no" response. Which is to say, if you are agnostic, "no" is accurate, and does not imply an active belief that there is a God.

There are some belief systems that would be tricky to put in this. My sister is very religious and is also an agnostic. My wife is religious and believes in the existence of essenses separate from our physical bodies, but not necessarily in a single supreme being. The answer for both of them would be "no", in that neither Buddhism nor Shinto adhere to the Western idea of monotheism, and both are based in the idea of developing one's personal spiritual essense to its highest level.

Do I believe in God? Yes, though I'm not sure by what means or to what extend God is involved in the every day lives of humans. It's not something I'm capable of knowing, nor do I assume I'll gain that knowledge with death or what will happen to my essense when I die, so I tend to focus on developing myself as best I can for this life and let what happens afterwards take care of itself.

Gilda

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

Baraka_Guru

The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism.

-Albert Einstein, 1954.

From Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman.

It is all too evident that our moral thinking simply has not been able to keep pace with such rapid progress in our acquisition of knowledge and power...It is no longer adequate to adopt the view that our responsibility as a society is to simply further scientific knowledge and enhance technological power and that the choice of what to do with this knowledge and power should be left in the hands of the individual...By invoking fundamental ethical principles, I am not advocating a fusion of religious ethics and scientific inquiry. Rather, I am speaking of what I call 'secular ethics' that embrace the key ethical principles, such as compassion, tolerance, a sense of caring, consideration of others, and the responsible use of knowledge and power -- principles that transcend the barriers between religious believers and nonbelievers, and followers of this religion or that religion.

-The 14th and current Dalai Lama

Source:
Dalai Lama Gives Talk On Science: Monk's D.C. Lecture Links Mind, Matter
By Marc Kaufman, Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111201080.html


Is this the future? Is this now? Whether we believe in gods doesn't matter, perhaps. But how do we answer the questions of morality? What is compassion and where does it come from? Who decides what is good and what is evil? What is the source of all of this? Is it human made? We can agree on these things only if there is an underlying set of principles. And to suggest that these are human by design would leave open the possibility of them being corrupted. Anything human in nature is susceptible to corruption.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

d*d

good question, we all assume the poll is relating to the christian God, I don't believe in Thor, Odin, Woden or any Norse gods, I also don't believe in any of the Greek gods, roman gods or egyptian gods - the christian god is just one more of a whole scope and range of dieties I don't believe in. (If you do believe in the christian god, do you then have to give credence to all the others?)

x|never.foundx|

i dont belive in god all creater all mighty also i dispise this place they call heaven when you die and you did many of good things you get rewarded for it in the after life like come off it its bullshit...yes you get rewared for good things you do when you do them ahhh good boy heres a loly pop get my drift?

__________________
In a coma you dont dream.you just hope that someone sits with you.

Bill O'Rights

I think so.

Although...I must confess that it would've been easier to "get" had you made use of some judicious capititalization. With, perhaps, a little punctuation thrown in here and there.

One question though. How can you dispise[sic] a place in which you do not believe? What I mean to say is that if you do not believe in "God", or his Heaven, then how can you despise it? Or...is it simply the concept that riles you so? If so, that's fine. I just want to make certain that I'm clear.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

x|never.foundx|

well its just the fact that all the chruch junkies and stuff are like ohh if your bad you wont get into heavn youll go into hell where lil devils will stabb you in the back also im a bad speller so im sry i dont use periods and all that puncuation stuff

__________________
In a coma you dont dream.you just hope that someone sits with you.

Lady Sage

Having the "church" shoved down your throat is quite a turn off.

My personal thought in the "Which God" part was... does it matter what you call one? Wouldnt they answer no matter what name you called them?

Some people call me Sage, they have for years but my parents dont. I answer to many names.

Just a thought.

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

d*d

To the god, I imagine not - to mankind it is the single largest cause of War we have ever known.

x|never.foundx|

another idea if there is a god.( i dont belive in one so dont choke me)
like that sage person said or whatever maby it would anser to differnt names.
maby he will anser to differnt names but you must have tasted the fruit for him to do that pluse if there was a god i would say he hates us all.the fact that alll the things that are going on in the world today.has anyone herd the bush qout wheres hes like god came to me in a dream and said now george you get your troops to invade the terriost countrys and i did? WHAT THE FUCK dosent the whole god scean try and promoto good will to man and stuff? correct me if im wrong but wow/

__________________
In a coma you dont dream.you just hope that someone sits with you.

Lady Sage

The funny (or not so funny) thing is most of the religions I read up on when I was trying to find the one that made the most sense to me....

Most all religions have the equivalent to the christian "Thou Shalt Not Kill" rule. What does war do? I dont think I will ever understand people and I am not sure I want to at this point either.

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

Infinite_Loser

Yes, I believe there's a God.

Many religions have distinct historic events which denote some type of central, All-Powerful being. For example, in the Christian and Mayan religions, they both believe that God sent a flood to destroy the inhabitants of the earth. If you take into account that these two religions lived independently of each other for around 1500 years-- On opposite ends of the world, mind you-- It's something worth noting.

__________________
I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

Lady Sage

Like for example all of the cultures that all believe in the 2012 prophesies?

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

Infinite_Loser

I only know of one culture (The Mayans) who believe such (Not to say there aren't others, but I don't know of any). Of course, the Mayan's developed a strong case for their beliefs.

__________________
I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

kurty[B]

My Desktop Background is a picture of a sign I took in India that states The Allah of Islam is the same as the God of Christians and the Iswar of Hindus. If everyone had such understanding I think our world would be a much more peaceful place.

To answer the original question. I do not believe in a god, but I do believe that we all have a spiritual (subconcious?) energy about us.

Lady Sage

I have several links if you would like some to read. Feel free to Pm me for them.

Kurty I agree with you! Simple understandings would go a very long way!

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

Griffith

I'm sure every opinion I could have on the subject has been covered from multiple angles, but here it goes anyway:

First, I don't believe in God, usually claim agnosticism to avoid listening to extremists, and figure that if there is a deity of some kind governing the universe, she goes by the name Lady Luck and rolls dice to decide everything.

Evolution is all but fact. One might argue that evolution could have been guided by a higher power, but I just don't buy it. I think most of us feel a presence, which we like to associate with something more than our singular existence. However, the voice in your head is your subconscious, the feeling you get when you lose yourself in something is Zen, a hardwired aspect of humanity, and mankind is more capable than we like to give ourselves credit for.

I have to agree with Ch'i in saying that anything written over a millenia ago is simply too old to be taken literally. If you like to take the teachings of any religion or faith and respect them for preaching good ways to live, respecting your fellow man, and all that jazz, that's excellent. But don't claim that the reason you shouldn't steal or cheat on your wife or kill a man is because God frowns upon it. The reason you don't do those things is because as a society we need rules to govern ourselves. It's much easier to just tell children that someone even more important than Mommy and Daddy says we shouldn't do these things, so we don't do them. (I apologize if that comes across as condescending.)

The two things I like to cite most in this argument are the words of the remains of a lost deep-scace probe that collided with God in that episode of Futurama, "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." and the notion that Democritus was known as the "Laughing Philosopher" because he knew that the life of any man, perhaps even all men is less than a blink in the grand scheme of things.

But that's just the opinion of some dumb college kid.

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na naa, na na na na na na naa, na katamari damacy

Infinite_Loser

I might be wrong, but it seems to me as if most athiests/agnostics rationale for not believing in God is that if they can't prove he exists through rational or scientific means, then he doesn't exist.

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.