Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post

abaya · 06-20-2006, 08:56 PM

I have looked at this thread many times, and I have never been able to answer the poll. I feel I would betray myself if I did choose one or the other.

Perhaps that makes me an agnostic, I don't know... but I still feel connected to "god," the oversoul, what-have-you. I have a complex spiritual view, however... hard to explain here. It involved asymptotes... humanity always attempting to reach the axes, the absolute, but never actually able to do so. And yet, there exists an anchor within the veil that separates us from Truth... but so many of us deny its existence. I don't know the place of "god" in this worldview... but I don't have much reason to exclude god from the picture, either. Why would I choose to be so violent and exclusive in my own vision of the world, when I cannot tolerate the same actions in other religious views?

As an anthropologist, I cannot believe that my view is the only correct one... nor can I judge those whose views differ from mine. To me, there is no harm in simply believing in "god," and in fact, there is often a great deal of benefit to nurturing one's spiritual life (see numerous sociological studies, even those published in peer-reviewed journals). There is also no harm in *not* believing in god... so long as one nurtures the life of the spirit, I believe, and does not harm others or the self.

In any case, I was rather the opposite of redOblivia, in that I was raised as a good non-believer (with smatterings of Theravada Buddhism and Catholicism), but became a Christian at age 14. From then until I was about 22, I was a hard-core evangelical. This faith was never forced on me. I always chose it for myself; in fact, my parents actually converted because I took them to church, and not the other way around (we are talking about people in their 40's and 50's, here). I chose to attend an evangelical university, and I threw myself into those years with a great passion. Nothing would have turned me away from the Lord, I thought (and so did my friends, and parents)... unless I myself would choose to walk away.

Which I did, with great resistance in myself. Having taken in and swallowed evangelical Christianity throughout my teen/college years, I believed that to stray from the path was to give in to temptation, the corrupted self, and evil itself. It took many years of reverse brainwashing and reading of all kinds of scholarly thought, as well as simply allowing myself to *think* and *feel* and even pray and ask God for guidance, to grow out of that stage in my life. It was a natural evolution. I still value that time very much in my life, especially the degree to which I was able to immerse myself so fully in something... I really came to know it inside and out, something I have not been able to do since. But I would never go back.

And it's not that I've become an atheist, other than perhaps intellectually... but in my soul, I can never be an atheist. As many others have said here, there is just too much going on for it to be all about me, all about what's right in front of us. And yet... there is heaven, right there. Right in front of us, in the present, and simultaneously includes us while being a great deal bigger than us or our comprehension of it. In the words of William Blake: there's a world in grain of sand, and heaven in a wild flower. Heaven is all around us, existing in each moment of the good life. Hell exists when we hurt one another. Do we need any more motivation to treat each other well?

If there's a god for me, it's that one... the god of Now, of the present. I don't mean to promote hedonism; maybe secular humanism is closer. I cannot believe in an afterlife of heaven and hell, or any kind of punishment-based system. If there is anything after death, I believe it will be more of an energy shift, from our humanly body into that of the earth or the universe at large. Perhaps without consciousness, or perhaps with. But it cannot matter right now, because all we have is the present. My god is the one I find here, now, today in front of me.

06-20-2006, 08:56 PM	#82 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	I have looked at this thread many times, and I have never been able to answer the poll. I feel I would betray myself if I did choose one or the other. Perhaps that makes me an agnostic, I don't know... but I still feel connected to "god," the oversoul, what-have-you. I have a complex spiritual view, however... hard to explain here. It involved asymptotes... humanity always attempting to reach the axes, the absolute, but never actually able to do so. And yet, there exists an anchor within the veil that separates us from Truth... but so many of us deny its existence. I don't know the place of "god" in this worldview... but I don't have much reason to exclude god from the picture, either. Why would I choose to be so violent and exclusive in my own vision of the world, when I cannot tolerate the same actions in other religious views? As an anthropologist, I cannot believe that my view is the only correct one... nor can I judge those whose views differ from mine. To me, there is no harm in simply believing in "god," and in fact, there is often a great deal of benefit to nurturing one's spiritual life (see numerous sociological studies, even those published in peer-reviewed journals). There is also no harm in not believing in god... so long as one nurtures the life of the spirit, I believe, and does not harm others or the self. In any case, I was rather the opposite of redOblivia, in that I was raised as a good non-believer (with smatterings of Theravada Buddhism and Catholicism), but became a Christian at age 14. From then until I was about 22, I was a hard-core evangelical. This faith was never forced on me. I always chose it for myself; in fact, my parents actually converted because I took them to church, and not the other way around (we are talking about people in their 40's and 50's, here). I chose to attend an evangelical university, and I threw myself into those years with a great passion. Nothing would have turned me away from the Lord, I thought (and so did my friends, and parents)... unless I myself would choose to walk away. Which I did, with great resistance in myself. Having taken in and swallowed evangelical Christianity throughout my teen/college years, I believed that to stray from the path was to give in to temptation, the corrupted self, and evil itself. It took many years of reverse brainwashing and reading of all kinds of scholarly thought, as well as simply allowing myself to think and feel and even pray and ask God for guidance, to grow out of that stage in my life. It was a natural evolution. I still value that time very much in my life, especially the degree to which I was able to immerse myself so fully in something... I really came to know it inside and out, something I have not been able to do since. But I would never go back. And it's not that I've become an atheist, other than perhaps intellectually... but in my soul, I can never be an atheist. As many others have said here, there is just too much going on for it to be all about me, all about what's right in front of us. And yet... there is heaven, right there. Right in front of us, in the present, and simultaneously includes us while being a great deal bigger than us or our comprehension of it. In the words of William Blake: there's a world in grain of sand, and heaven in a wild flower. Heaven is all around us, existing in each moment of the good life. Hell exists when we hurt one another. Do we need any more motivation to treat each other well? If there's a god for me, it's that one... the god of Now, of the present. I don't mean to promote hedonism; maybe secular humanism is closer. I cannot believe in an afterlife of heaven and hell, or any kind of punishment-based system. If there is anything after death, I believe it will be more of an energy shift, from our humanly body into that of the earth or the universe at large. Perhaps without consciousness, or perhaps with. But it cannot matter right now, because all we have is the present. My god is the one I find here, now, today in front of me. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran Last edited by abaya; 06-20-2006 at 09:00 PM..