tecoyah

I suppose it comes down to what God is..............

Is God a Concept?

Well....duh....what else can this thing possibly be. Unless someone can actually state they have met the thing....it is but a concept. Candles, Wine, Communion....who cares what means people use to get closer to the concept, it all serves the same purpose. The key here is....why bother watching/ reacting to someone elses religion/belief....instead of your own.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

ngdawg

Why? Because if you don't believe the same thing, you can feel superior (those that would react that way at least) that your belief is true and those others are bunk. If you do believe the same way, you won't feel alone in those beliefs.
Personally, I don't care if you believe in Snap, Crackle and Pop as your gods as long as you don't waste your time trying to convince me of the same.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

asaris

The difference, traditionally, between 'spellcraft' and prayer is that, with spellcraft, one is trying to manipulate the system -- to force spirits or spiritual energy to work for you. Prayer is simply asking God for a favor, knowing that, ultimately, the principle is 'not my will but thy will be done'. This may be unfair to modern-day pagans -- I've only known a few. But that's my take on it.

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"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

ngdawg

Doesn't seem to be much of a difference at all because isn't God thought of as a spiritual entity, one who will work for you and for everyone that believes he will? 'Thy will be done' just seems to be giving God a choice to ignore the message or act on it
Factions considered pagan have their own gods and goddesses, not just spiritual energies or spirits and to some they are as real as the one God in Judeo-Christian factions. They're just a bit more 'specialized'.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

pan6467

Even Atheists are religious in their own aspect. The belief nothing (as far as a "God")exists is still a spiritual and religious belief.... even if they don't acknowledge the fact.

So inside everyone there is a religous/spiritual belief.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

roachboy

i dont know about that, pan: i have heard the claim that atheism is a type of religious committment before and figure that, if that is true, it would only be so in particular cases:

a hypothetical...

say someone at 18 or so decided that he or she no longer believed---but that person grew up in a family/community/environment where a judeo-xtian mode of belief was part of the frame of reference, that is part of the ambient assumptions that shape how phenomena are grouped/processed and that a child growing up in such an environment would necessarily internalize as an aspect of their being-in-the-world--- it would follow that non-belief would initially result in an inversion of the religious dispositions because they functioned as given, that is as part of that person's frame of reference, and so would shape thewhole matter of belief, in a kind of negative way. in which case you'd be right.

but that inversion characterizes a phase--while some can get stuck there--it is not necessary that anyone would---if you think about it--if you grow up through it, say---you can leave this inversion behind-----and maybe begin thinking about matters that had previously been routed through religion in entirely different ways, grouping them differently, thinking about them differently--in which case, the characterization of atheism as a type fo religious disposition is false.

the tedious public face of atheism--madeline murray o'hare for example--is among the folk who seems permanently stuck in a space of inversion. but that is her choice, and not a function atheism. then again, she was obviously stuck in the space of inversion as a marketing choice--and she seems to have managed pretty well in using that to operate within an entirely xtian logic as the "face of the Other". but outside that entirely xtian frame of reference, she is no more relevant than any number of other uninteresting folk whose belief systems as outlined on websites constittues a significant dimension of the debris field that is the internet.

religion in the judeo-christian sense of the term can become quite irrelevant even to someone who grew up in a religious environment.
the only people who are shocked by this--or even surprised by it--tend to themselves work within a judeo-christian frame----and the surprise is a function of their inability to imagine that anyone would think fundamentally differently than they do.

underpinning this is the numbing arrogance of many xtians---and many many demoninations----concerning their own beliefs. this arrogance follows from the assumption that their beliefs are True and so all others are not only False but Primitive or Dangerous. the assumption about the Truth of these religious committments is the precondition for the intertwining of xtanity with all kinds of colonialism, and from there with violence on a huge scale. look at thie history of colonialism--the entire ideology of the "white man's burden" follows from nothing else than this assumption about the Truth of xtianity. that ideology was basic to the whole of colonialism---from there is made sense that one could see destroying entire cultures followed from some goofy desire to save people.

nothing more problematic than intertwining a notion of Absolute Truth with the missionary position.

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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

ClostGoth

The rede is a lot longer than that, but essentially:

"These Eight words the Rede fulfill:

An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will"

I myself, am a practitioner, minister, high priestess, WHATEVER of Sommerism. (Yes, my name is Sommer.) An eclectic bunch of whatever happens to fall my way and feel right - mostly instinctual, including some Wiccan ideals. I have found that the only place I can find people who think similarly to myself is the Unitarian Universalist church, and the Covenant of Unitarian Universalist Pagans in particular. I have heard it stated thus, by a UU friend:

"We're all climbing the same mountain. Does it make any sense to lean over and shout obsenities to the next person? Should we tell him how his climbing technique is wrong, or that he should follow in our own footsteps? Everyone must find their own path up that mountain. If they reach out a hand, take it and give them a boost. But their path will only intersect your own for a brief time." Okay, I personally feel that there may be more than one mountain to climb, but you get the idea. ;-)

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I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be.
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