hunnychile

After we die, do we humans become angels in heaven or do we have to pay dues with karma first?

Just curious...

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Gatorade Frost

What do you think...?

I'd go ahead and say no since Angels aren't humans and humans aren't Angels. As far as I know Angels are God's warrios, messengers, etc. while Humans are basically living creatures with free will and depending on how we do while we're alive determines whether we get into heaven, purgatory, or hell. Whether we pay Karmic dues determines purgatory or heaven I suspect, but I don't believe humans are destined to become angels in any sense.

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noahfor

I'm sure God can make a person into an angel if he wants to, and why not, it's heaven, anything goes.

onodrim

When beginning threads, it is important to do more than simply pose a question, especially in forums like Tilted Philosophy. If you expect to facilitate discussion, please start a thread with your own thoughts on the issue. Don't just ask a question and expect other people to carry the discussion for you.

Carry on...

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-Carl Sagan

tecoyah

According to scripture, there are a defined group of "angels", created for a purpose by God. In all the updates made to the books, there has never been an addition to the ranks of angels that I am aware of. This would lead me to believe God has enough already.
That said, your question leads me to believe you consider Humans capable of becoming angelic, which also goes against scripture...Saintly yes, Angelic....No.

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Toaster126

From what I understand of the Bible, it says all the angels were there before the creation of Earth (God speaking in "we's" during Genesis, for example), and humans aren't angels, nor are angels human. While I like the idea of becoming some sort of diving kicker-of-ass for God, I don't think God has it set it up like that.

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Reese

I think angels and humans are different. Revelations discribes ten thousand times ten thousand angels and an uncountable number of humans from all nations beside God's throne. That seems to clearly mean they're seperate. Also, who is to say that angels are actually better than humans. We have different roles and are different beings.

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Nimetic

You had better ask somebody who has died.

snowy

As everyone else has said already, Scripture points out the differences between human and angels. Tecoyah has one of the best points of all in that we can become saintly but not angelic. We can work to be closer to God, but we will never be angels--at least not in my belief system.

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vjssy

There's that. Just to further specify what everyone else added, that humans cannot become angels is by and large of Judeo-Christian view. I'm sure that there is SOME faith that believes you can become an angel after death -though I've yet to hear of one-. It seems implied that everyone was talking about a christian thing here, so here's some scripture to back up our answers.

>> http://www.answers2prayer.org/bible_.../becoming.html

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with anything on aforementioned website, am not an affiliate of aforementioned website, and I've no idea what the complete content of the website is. View it at your own discretion, yadayada. I think you get it. It was just google'd.

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stevo

No, angels are a purely energetic form and interact with God in the energetic realm - beyond human capability.

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Ustwo

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm practicing dancing on the head of a pin just in case.

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Leto

So... if humans can become saints, and angels pre-existed humans, is there a heirarchy in heaven/hell (universe/outerverse)? Besides the God/everything else heirarchy that is.

I always thought that God was the top of the heirarchy, but do not know where angels, saints, fallen angels & other competitors to God (devil? Satan?) as well as humans or animals fall within the organization.

Also the concept of what existed prior to Judeo/Christian/Islamic paradigm with respect to this question. Is the Hindu view of the world really just an interpretation of what the /Christian/Islamic paradigm states is the case?

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snowy

Hierarchy and order was something well-loved by the Church. The best example of this is present in Dante's Divine Comedy. The hierarchical structure of Hell, Purgatory, and Heaven is simply amazing. I think that is probably the most extreme illustration of any hierarchy present, though.

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stevo

God -> inner circle (closest devotees) -> angels -> saints


Elaborate, please. Don't know if I understand the question entirely.

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asaris

I don't know if there's any official teaching about this, but I know in Milton's Paradise Lost, the reason the devil revolted against God was because he was upset about humans being placed over angels.

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Willravel

My wife is an angel, and she's not dead yet.

I think that if you believe that you could become and angel some day, then you should believe that. If not, then the same. If you want to help people, all the more power to you.

Crack

Why would you want to be?
(this is comming from some one who is completely set in his atheist ways, but knows a thing or two about christianity)
The way it seems to me in everyting I have read, from the bible, to contemporary litertature seems to refer to the angels as god's servants, messengers, and gofers
Why would you want to spend a life devoted to god, only to die, and serve him for eternity? Where is the reward? Service to a god that usues you as an errand boy?
It has been said above, and I am almost 100% sure that it has been written that god has made humans in his form and given free will, and therefor we, not angels are the ones chosen as his 'most favorite'.
Just a thought.

/quit devils advocate

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Leto

ok, I'll try:

Everybody looks at Hinduism, and remarks upon the panoply of deities. So many gods to worship, very pagan. Similar concept applied to polytheistic religious systems which pre-dated the paradigm of the "People of the Book" as it were. For example, Ancient Greek and Roman, Norse/Germanic, Asian or New World religions

Is this really and attempt to identify attributes that make up the whole? remember the parable of the blind men trying to identify an elephant, each of them touching a separate part, and giving their interpretation? The one touching the trunk, called the animal a snake, while the one touching the leg called it a tree?

Well, perhaps these attempts to identify and assign attributes to the universe resulted in the creation of deities, which the Judeao/Christian/Islamic world assigns the status of angels, saints etc...

I can see that I'm not very good at clarrifying. Hope it helps.

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You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

snowy

Well, Leto, that is sort of a function of the saints. For instance, St. Anthony is the saint you pray to if you lose something. Every saint is the patron saint of something. Furthermore, there's evidence that a lot of early saints are actually modeled off of pagan gods and goddesses (ie St. Brigid).

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

stevo

I would put Hinduism along side Judeo-Christian religions. It is the same God. In hinduism It is the same God but in different incarnations. Hinduism also shows a different "God" for each attribute of God. God the creator (Brahma), God the sustainer (Vishnu), God the destroyer (Shiva). It is the same God - but different aspects.

Its confusing, and I still have a lot to learn about it, but I can say I am certain that the same God gave the world the Gita, Bible, and the Koran.

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frogza

An angel is a being that is a messanger or servant for God. Though the Bible doesn't explicitly say that humans can become angels it does offer evidence to support the human to angel conversion. Moses and Elijah appeared to minister as angels to Jesus while Peter, James and John watched.

Interestingly, saints are not mentioned anywhere in the Bible except as a side note when Paul referred to those living people who were living the commandments.

If I had my Bible with me I'd give references, if you want them I can post them once I get home.

Ch'i

I'll let you know when I get there.

Ourcrazymodern?

Does anybody remember before we were conceived? I think not. Unless as a very aware gamete. Has anybody out there seen or felt an angel? I think it's interesting that for the most part the archangels names are for the most part used on boys to this day. When I was a kid I think I had the idea that angels were all girls?
I think, in any case, that you can't possibly become an angel until you stop being a human. Maybe some few humans have been angelic, most are not up to the task. I speak as one of the latter, of course.

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Kalnaur

Nah.

We recycle until we have the knowledge to become gods ourselves.

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Jozrael

Um, angels = created by God to serve humans, despite the fact that they predated us.

So humans > angels. No offense to said angelic hierarchy, just that's their purpose.

Speaking from a strictly Christian scripture viewpoint.