TWA Flight 800 Conspiracy Theory (-Theory) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

kangaeru · 07-05-2005, 01:32 PM

So someone who I have recently become very close with was letting me read through her childhood diary recently. She wanted to show me one specific entry...

It was about the TWA Flight 800 crash out of nowhere in the ocean. There were theories here and there, something blew up on board, the plane just went down, it was hit by a missle...

So in the interest of keeping this post short and sweet, basically the diary entry was about having to keep a huge secret about her father even though the news, and magazines, and everyone else was making a huge deal about what happened.

Her father is an executive with Sikorsky. It was one of their weapons systems on a Navy ship which shot the plane down inadvertantly. The govt. covered up everything or they would have faced massive public backlash, lawsuits, etc, etc...

I have never bought into conspiracy theories. I've always considered our government so bumbling and cumbersome that they couldn't possibly manage any kind of large scale cover up. But I guess I was wrong.

Shakes my faith in our govt...makes me wonder a lot more about what happened with the pentagon during 9/11, WMD in Iraq, etc...

dlish · 07-06-2005, 06:38 AM

interesting..but what did the entry say exactly?

can it be a hoax or joke? why was she so eager to show u the entry?

joecool · 07-06-2005, 06:45 AM

The problem with cover-ups like this is, it involves to many people... somebody would make millions with proof of something like this, books they could write interviews and so on, and doesn’t the pain and backlash of the actual incident fail in comparison to the potential to uncover not only the actual incident but cover ups, lies ect ect?

Redlemon · 07-06-2005, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kangaeru

Her father is an executive with Sikorsky. It was one of their weapons systems on a Navy ship which shot the plane down inadvertantly.

I took a look at the Sikorsky Products page; I don't think that they make "weapons systems", only helicopters. Certainly not a ship-mounted missle system.

Windbreaker · 07-06-2005, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecool

The problem with cover-ups like this is, it involves to many people... somebody would make millions with proof of something like this, books they could write interviews and so on, and doesn’t the pain and backlash of the actual incident fail in comparison to the potential to uncover not only the actual incident but cover ups, lies ect ect?

keep seeing people say stuff like this and I want to slap them and say AREA 51.. Our government certainly has the ability to keep people quiet......

stevo · 07-06-2005, 08:00 AM

Doesn't this belong in paranoia? No offense or anything, but this really isn't a political debate.

kangaeru · 07-06-2005, 09:10 AM

Ahh yeah, it should be in paranoia, you're right. Sorry--hopefully it'll be moved if necessary.

The diary read along the lines of, "I have the biggest secret in the world to keep and I know why so many people died, but I can't say anything because it would get my dad in trouble and i'd never see him again. This is the biggest secret I have ever had to keep in my life--so many people are upset about it and I know the truth, I cry about it all the time" , etc, etc. She wasn't 'eager' to show me, we had been talking for an hour or so, getting high, and she told me she wanted to show me something.

Sikorsky makes attack helicopters, including the weapons which are mounted on them. So they know how to make air to surface missles, surface to air ones can't be too much different. I KNOW Sikorsky does not make only helicopters. They definitely have weapons technology.

Jinn · 07-06-2005, 09:42 AM

I had a friend who, I think, honestly believed she had been raped. For a year and a half, she had herself, her doctors, and all of her friends convinced that she had been raped in the parking lot. A year later, we found out that it was "just a dream" and she didn't realize it.

People invent and believe all sorts of stories, and taken from a childhood journal is certainly not a credible source.

Also:

Quote:

Pierre Salinger, a former White House press secretary to President John F. Kennedy and ABC News journalist, prominently and repeatedly claimed he had proof that the flight was downed by a missile from a U.S. Navy ship. The documents on which he relied were later found to be rumors that had been distributed over Usenet, with attributions only to many "unnamed experts". Some people briefly gave the name of Pierre Salinger Syndrome to the tendency to believe things that one reads on the Internet.

Quote:

After what has been billed as the longest and most expensive accident investigation in American aviation history, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigation found that the flammable fuel/air mixture of the center wing fuel tank probably ignited due to electrical failure in the center fuel tank, causing the plane to explode in flight. The FBI agreed that there had been no criminal act after examining all the plane's wreckage that had been recovered.

The NTSB subsequently made several recommendations to the FAA with an eye toward reducing the potential for future fuel/air vapor explosions in fuel tanks. In February 2004, the FAA indicated that it would start the (rather long) process of ordering airlines to install a fuel tank inerting system in most of their aircraft. It was stated that the order would probably actually be issued within two years, and then the airlines would be required to install the devices over the subsequent seven years. The FAA stated that, including the TWA Flight 800 crash, there had been three fuel tank explosions in airliners over the previous 14 years (the two others having occurred on the ground), and that based on this statistic, fuel tank inerting devices could eliminate about 4 accidents over the next 25 years.

Paradoxically, the less fuel in the tank, the more dangerous it is, since fuel has a higher specific heat capacity, and is slower to heat up than an air mixture.

Boeing has stated that it will install its inerting system in all aircraft starting in 2005.

.. from the Wikipedia article, TWA Flight 800.

kangaeru · 07-06-2005, 09:51 AM

Her father is was a department executive for Sikorsky. He is addicted to oxycotins, he is an alcoholic, and a very unhappy and bitter man.

I think it's partly who he is, partly what he's done, and partly the secrets he's had to keep. I'm not sure if she found out from her father or her mother...i think it might have been father told mother, mother told the daughters. Women...

Jinn · 07-06-2005, 09:51 AM

Also -- this "person you've become close with" isnt crazed hotty from the gym is she? Your stories alone would reduce the credibility

Additionally.. alcoholics lie.. A LOT.. even to their children or wives. "Yes honey, I got fired from Sikorsky because I knew too much (not because I was drinking on the job..)

roachboy · 07-06-2005, 10:01 AM

or there might be a core of the story that is true, yes?
that memory is often unreliable is given. that folk make things up is also given. that sometimes not everything is made up is also a given. in this case, the source material is particularly complicated for interpreting via an abstract medium like this: it is a childhood diary--so maybe an internal family story is reproduced there as fact? maybe the story that is reproduced is true?
maybe the father was a problematic character--but i am unclear on how whatever problems he might have had impinge on a story that unfolded after his death.

it is, in a sense, impossible to come to a reasonable interpretation of this based on the information provided in the thread. which is not a criticism of kangereau--it is more a limitation of boards like this.

as for the question of politics vs. paranoia--i dont see any way to determine the type of thread this in fact is.
there is no way to know.

Redlemon · 07-06-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kangaeru

Sikorsky makes attack helicopters, including the weapons which are mounted on them. So they know how to make air to surface missles, surface to air ones can't be too much different. I KNOW Sikorsky does not make only helicopters. They definitely have weapons technology.

I would expect that the weapons would be outsourced, but I have no actual knowledge to justify that opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

as for the question of politics vs. paranoia--i dont see any way to determine the type of thread this in fact is.
there is no way to know.

The word 'conspiracy' is right in the title. That puts it in Paranoia. (It doesn't mean it isn't true.)

kangaeru · 07-06-2005, 05:33 PM

Jinn--haha yeah guilty as charged, it's that same girl. She showed me that diary the second night I was hanging out with her.

The funny thing about her is there isn't a manipulative bone in her body, she is just very naieve. I know she wasn't lying, it's not in her nature. Despite all the shit that went down with her recently, I still think she wasn't lying.

Ah well fuck it anyways, even if it was a cover up there's nothing I can do about it. When it's time to go you're gonna go. If the government hides how you died after the fact, what can you do, you're already dead, you'd have to let it go. Can't worry about it if it's out of your control. That's how we get ghosts =P

(edit -- ps her dad did not get fired. He retired a year ago, and is addicted to online poker where he throws around thousands of dollars a night)

dlish · 07-06-2005, 11:56 PM

an alcoholic and a gambler..spends long hours online playing poker (and most likely porn :P ) and he sounds depressed. i think he needed a lift in his life, so he made a story up to bring some excitement into his life.

too bad only his nieve daughter believes him

Redlemon · 07-07-2005, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlishsguy

an alcoholic and a gambler..spends long hours online playing poker (and most likely porn :P ) and he sounds depressed. i think he needed a lift in his life, so he made a story up to bring some excitement into his life.

too bad only his nieve daughter believes him

Well, there's the flip side interpretation; he knows something huge and can't tell anyone, leading to depression, substance abuse, and other addicitons.

Daval · 07-07-2005, 06:00 AM

I moved this thread to Tilted Paranoia...

MSD · 07-08-2005, 07:16 PM

Dozens of independent eyewitness reports, radar data, and the infamous Kabot photo all point toward an accidental shootdown during a military exercise. I suspect that the Kabot photo shows not a missile, but a target drone that was the intended target of the missile that struck Flight 800. Obviously, something went wrong, but numerous reports of missiles in the air over LI Sound (including suspicious objects that I have observed that did not appear to be normal civilian or military aircraft) indicate that it is the site of mostly harmless military testing of weapons systems.

woody18228 · 07-19-2005, 02:03 PM

Have you tried to talk more to the girl about it?

kangaeru · 07-22-2005, 04:59 AM

No, I don't talk to her much anymore. But I she might be coming with me to Boston to party hardcore this weekend, but probably not. That's a whole nother can of worms though.

I haven't talked to her about this more yet, the damage has already been done to deepen my distrust of our government.

07-05-2005, 01:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
kangaeru Crazy Location: on the road to where I want to be...	TWA Flight 800 Conspiracy Theory (-Theory) So someone who I have recently become very close with was letting me read through her childhood diary recently. She wanted to show me one specific entry... It was about the TWA Flight 800 crash out of nowhere in the ocean. There were theories here and there, something blew up on board, the plane just went down, it was hit by a missle... So in the interest of keeping this post short and sweet, basically the diary entry was about having to keep a huge secret about her father even though the news, and magazines, and everyone else was making a huge deal about what happened. Her father is an executive with Sikorsky. It was one of their weapons systems on a Navy ship which shot the plane down inadvertantly. The govt. covered up everything or they would have faced massive public backlash, lawsuits, etc, etc... I have never bought into conspiracy theories. I've always considered our government so bumbling and cumbersome that they couldn't possibly manage any kind of large scale cover up. But I guess I was wrong. Shakes my faith in our govt...makes me wonder a lot more about what happened with the pentagon during 9/11, WMD in Iraq, etc... __________________ Dont be afraid to change who you are for what you could become

07-06-2005, 06:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	interesting..but what did the entry say exactly? can it be a hoax or joke? why was she so eager to show u the entry? __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

07-06-2005, 06:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
joecool Upright	Hummmm The problem with cover-ups like this is, it involves to many people... somebody would make millions with proof of something like this, books they could write interviews and so on, and doesn’t the pain and backlash of the actual incident fail in comparison to the potential to uncover not only the actual incident but cover ups, lies ect ect?

07-06-2005, 08:00 AM	#6 (permalink)
stevo Rail Baron Location: Tallyfla	Doesn't this belong in paranoia? No offense or anything, but this really isn't a political debate. __________________ "If I am such a genius why am I drunk, lost in the desert, with a bullet in my ass?" -Otto Mannkusser

07-06-2005, 09:10 AM	#7 (permalink)
kangaeru Crazy Location: on the road to where I want to be...	Ahh yeah, it should be in paranoia, you're right. Sorry--hopefully it'll be moved if necessary. The diary read along the lines of, "I have the biggest secret in the world to keep and I know why so many people died, but I can't say anything because it would get my dad in trouble and i'd never see him again. This is the biggest secret I have ever had to keep in my life--so many people are upset about it and I know the truth, I cry about it all the time" , etc, etc. She wasn't 'eager' to show me, we had been talking for an hour or so, getting high, and she told me she wanted to show me something. Sikorsky makes attack helicopters, including the weapons which are mounted on them. So they know how to make air to surface missles, surface to air ones can't be too much different. I KNOW Sikorsky does not make only helicopters. They definitely have weapons technology. __________________ Dont be afraid to change who you are for what you could become

07-06-2005, 09:51 AM	#9 (permalink)
kangaeru Crazy Location: on the road to where I want to be...	Her father is was a department executive for Sikorsky. He is addicted to oxycotins, he is an alcoholic, and a very unhappy and bitter man. I think it's partly who he is, partly what he's done, and partly the secrets he's had to keep. I'm not sure if she found out from her father or her mother...i think it might have been father told mother, mother told the daughters. Women... __________________ Dont be afraid to change who you are for what you could become

07-06-2005, 09:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	Also -- this "person you've become close with" isnt crazed hotty from the gym is she? Your stories alone would reduce the credibility Additionally.. alcoholics lie.. A LOT.. even to their children or wives. "Yes honey, I got fired from Sikorsky because I knew too much (not because I was drinking on the job..) __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

07-06-2005, 10:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	or there might be a core of the story that is true, yes? that memory is often unreliable is given. that folk make things up is also given. that sometimes not everything is made up is also a given. in this case, the source material is particularly complicated for interpreting via an abstract medium like this: it is a childhood diary--so maybe an internal family story is reproduced there as fact? maybe the story that is reproduced is true? maybe the father was a problematic character--but i am unclear on how whatever problems he might have had impinge on a story that unfolded after his death. it is, in a sense, impossible to come to a reasonable interpretation of this based on the information provided in the thread. which is not a criticism of kangereau--it is more a limitation of boards like this. as for the question of politics vs. paranoia--i dont see any way to determine the type of thread this in fact is. there is no way to know. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

07-06-2005, 05:33 PM	#13 (permalink)
kangaeru Crazy Location: on the road to where I want to be...	Jinn--haha yeah guilty as charged, it's that same girl. She showed me that diary the second night I was hanging out with her. The funny thing about her is there isn't a manipulative bone in her body, she is just very naieve. I know she wasn't lying, it's not in her nature. Despite all the shit that went down with her recently, I still think she wasn't lying. Ah well fuck it anyways, even if it was a cover up there's nothing I can do about it. When it's time to go you're gonna go. If the government hides how you died after the fact, what can you do, you're already dead, you'd have to let it go. Can't worry about it if it's out of your control. That's how we get ghosts =P (edit -- ps her dad did not get fired. He retired a year ago, and is addicted to online poker where he throws around thousands of dollars a night) __________________ Dont be afraid to change who you are for what you could become

07-06-2005, 11:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	an alcoholic and a gambler..spends long hours online playing poker (and most likely porn :P ) and he sounds depressed. i think he needed a lift in his life, so he made a story up to bring some excitement into his life. too bad only his nieve daughter believes him __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

07-07-2005, 06:00 AM	#16 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	I moved this thread to Tilted Paranoia... __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

07-08-2005, 07:16 PM	#17 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Dozens of independent eyewitness reports, radar data, and the infamous Kabot photo all point toward an accidental shootdown during a military exercise. I suspect that the Kabot photo shows not a missile, but a target drone that was the intended target of the missile that struck Flight 800. Obviously, something went wrong, but numerous reports of missiles in the air over LI Sound (including suspicious objects that I have observed that did not appear to be normal civilian or military aircraft) indicate that it is the site of mostly harmless military testing of weapons systems.

07-19-2005, 02:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
woody18228 Upright	Have you tried to talk more to the girl about it?

07-22-2005, 04:59 AM	#19 (permalink)
kangaeru Crazy Location: on the road to where I want to be...	No, I don't talk to her much anymore. But I she might be coming with me to Boston to party hardcore this weekend, but probably not. That's a whole nother can of worms though. I haven't talked to her about this more yet, the damage has already been done to deepen my distrust of our government. __________________ Dont be afraid to change who you are for what you could become