"Speaker Says Bush Knew Of Sept. 11 Plans" Wisconsin State Journal Reports Story: - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

host · 04-29-2005, 09:17 PM

The story behind the story is that this conservative newspaper (the biggest daily in it's region) that endorsed Bush last october (near bottom of page in "Opinion" section) on this link:"For Security and Prosperity Keep Bush"
http://web.archive.org/web/200411010.../wsj/index.php actually ran the following report on April 20, 2005:

<b>(mods, please consider that this was reported as "news" in a respected, conservative, widely circulated newspaper, and NOT picked up by the wire services. The WSJ report is followed by background info that includes scheduled coverage on C-Span-2, tomorrow, April 30, and by segments and links of other local Wisconsin news outlets' coverage. IMO, it is unique enough to avoid being moved to the "P"-word thread.)</b>

Quote:

http://www.madison.com/archives/read...OCAL/WISCONSIN
Speaker Says Bush Knew Of Sept. 11 Plans

The Theologian And Author Believes The President Endorsed The Attacks To Build Up Support For His Military Plans.
Wisconsin State Journal :: LOCAL/WISCONSIN :: B1
Tuesday, April 19, 2005
Doug Erickson Wisconsin State Journal
A noted Christian theologian suggested Monday in Madison that the Bush administration not only had prior knowledge of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, but probably helped orchestrate them.

David Ray Griffin, 65, a retired professor at the Claremont School of Theology in Claremont, Calif., said the government's version of the attacks is so implausible it can't possibly be true.

The numerous inconsistencies and far-fetched explanations from Bush officials "show that the attacks must have been planned and executed by our own political and military leaders," Griffin said.

He thinks Bush endorsed the attacks to gain support for a military buildup and global domination effort that began with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Griffin is part of a small group of scholars and others questioning the government's story and the conclusions of the bipartisan 9/11 commission that investigated the attacks.

Griffin's speech before about 450 people at Bascom Hall on the UW-Madison campus was considered a major victory by his supporters in that it was taped by C-SPAN for later broadcast on the public service cable channel. No air dates were available Monday.

Event organizer Kevin Barrett, founder of a Muslim-Jewish-Christian alliance called MUJCA-NET, told the crowd C-SPAN should be applauded "for having the guts to put 9/11 truth on national TV."

Barrett said his group paid Griffin's airfare and was hoping to provide an additional $100 to cover expenses. Otherwise, Griffin did not charge for his appearance.

Griffin has written extensively on the origins of evil and the relationship between science and religion. He has authored or edited 24 books, including "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11."

In the Sept. 11 attacks, armed terrorists hijacked four passenger jets. Two crashed into the World Trade Center in New York and a third crashed in a field in Pennsylvania.

According to the government, the fourth jet crashed into the Pentagon in Arlington, Va., although Griffin questions this and suggests the damage may have been caused by a military plane or missile.

Griffin operates from the basic premise that 19 Arab-Muslim hijackers could not have outwitted this country's extensive military defense system without inside help. Among his arguments:

* Fighter jets typically are sent out immediately upon any sign that a plane may have been hijacked. They usually arrive no later than 10 to 20 minutes. Yet in this case, the military failed to stop the attacks, then gave three conflicting versions of why it deviated from standard operating procedure, Griffin said.

* The Pentagon is probably the best-defended structure on the planet. How could a commercial airliner fly undetected and toward the Defense Department for 40 minutes and not be shot down by the Pentagon's anti-aircraft system?

* Bush lingered for more than 15 minutes at an elementary school after learning of the second jet crashing into the World Trade Center. Given that Bush's itinerary had been highly publicized, why wasn't the Secret Service concerned that he might be a target of a surprise terrorist attack?

"This behavior makes sense only if the head of the Secret Service detail knew that the planned attacks did not include an attack on the president. And how did they know this for certain unless the attacks were being carried out by people within our own government?" Griffin said.

* The straight-down, free-fall collapse of the World Trade Center buildings suggests a controlled demolition. A plane crash and fire could not have caused such a collapse, Griffin said.

These examples and others "are sufficient to suggest that there is no escape from the frightful conclusion that 9/11 was engineered by the Bush administration and its Pentagon," he said.

He closed by saying religious people must seek the truth about 9/11, create new means to spread the information and work to thwart Bush's attempts at global domination.

The crowd gave Griffin a standing ovation.

Rob Helfenstein, 41, a floor installer from Waukesha, came away convinced. "Governments have always used fake terror to manipulate their people," he said. "History hasn't changed."

But his friend, Dave Balistreri, 35, a construction consultant from Waukesha, said he entered and left the lecture hall skeptical. Although Balistreri said the Bush administration probably isn't telling the whole truth, "I think the level of complicity is much, much less than (Griffin) is suggesting."

Quote:

http://www.booktv.org/General/index....77&schedID=343
On Saturday, April 30 at 10:30 am
The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions
David Ray Griffin

Description: David Ray Griffin takes a critical look at the official 9/11 Commission Report put out by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States. Professor Griffin argues that the "omissions and distortions" in the report amount to a cover-up by government officials and says that the available evidence suggests that the Bush administration was complicit in the 9/11 attacks (either by ignoring known threats or through actual participation in the planning of the attacks). Professor Griffin asks a series of questions which he says have been either inadequately answered or completely ignored by the commission. These include questions surrounding the attack on the Pentagon, the way in which the World Trade Center towers collapsed, and the behavior of President Bush and his Secret Service detail following notification that a second plane had hit the WTC. The talk was hosted by the Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth (www.mujca.com) and took place at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. Includes Q&A.

Quote:

Theologian calls for response to 9/11
By Samara Kalk Derby
April 19, 2005
http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/local...php?ntid=36617

David Ray Griffin asks the tough questions about Sept. 11, contending U.S. officials had some knowledge of what was coming and possibly orchestrated the attacks.

Griffin, whose book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," came out a year ago, drew an enthusiastic standing ovation from the majority of the 400 or so people who packed his lecture Monday night at Bascom Hall.

A retired Christian theologian, Griffin, 65, taught for more than 30 years at the Claremont School of Theology in California.

His comments Monday night were directed at religious people, who he said need to respond to Sept. 11 - and the American empire that has ensued - based on the moral principles of their religious traditions.

Drawing laughter from the crowd, Griffin said he had in mind principles like: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors' oil" and "Thou shalt not murder thy neighbors in order to steal their oil."
<b>
While Griffin noted that his books and talks have not received attention from the mainstream media, C-SPAN had a cameraman at the event and plans to air the lecture at a future date. Madison's public access cable television station, WYOU-TV/Channel 4, meanwhile, will air the talk at 7 p.m. Thursday.</b>

Americans interpret the events of Sept. 11 in one of four ways, Griffin said:.....................

Quote:

http://www.madtimes.com/archives/apr2005_3/index.htm

Critiques of the 9/11 Commission report

Questions left unanswered

by Jonathan Gramling
The events of September 11, 2001 - the crashing of hijacked planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and the crashing of a fourth plane in a Pennsylvania field - continue to reverberate through and change American society as the U.S. engages in an unending war against terrorism. During the ensuing 3-4 years, the U.S. has engaged in wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, dramatically increased its military spending, and curtailed civil liberties within its borders.

While most Americans - and the 911 Commission Report - blame the events totally on al-Qaeda and feel that the U.S. government was unaware that the attacks would occur, a vocal minority of individuals continue to raise unanswered questions about 911. On April 18, Dr. David Griffin, author of "The New Pearl Harbor" and "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions" and one of the leading critics of the 9/11 Commission Report, will speak at 2650 Humanities on the University of Wisconsin-Madison campus.

When asked about the commission report during a telephone interview with The Madison Times, Griffin responded "I have one little problem with the 911 Commission report. It is a 567-page lie.".............................

Do you agree that this is news because it was reported by a major conservative newspaper, the Wisconsin State Journal, it is receiving air time on C-Span2 booktv.org , and, as this link demonstrates, there is a total news blackout about this, even by the "so called" LIBERAL MEDIA? Do you agree that this development speaks to the reluctance of most media outlets to investigate and report on what our government officials say and do? Link to verify news blackout for yourself: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ne...nG=Search+News

F-18_Driver · 04-29-2005, 10:10 PM

Funny how all conservatives are nut cases until one of the true fruitcakes comes up with this garbage.

Even funnier that Zacarias Moussaoui totally forgot to mention Bush's involvement when he pled guilty.

Link

I doubt even the hard-core Bush opponents here are going to get very wrapped up in this discussion.

host · 04-29-2005, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-18_Driver

Funny how all conservatives are nut cases until one of the true fruitcakes comes up with this garbage.

Even funnier that Zacarias Moussaoui totally forgot to mention Bush's involvement when he pled guilty.

Link

I doubt even the hard-core Bush opponents here are going to get very wrapped up in this discussion.

I am not laughing. I am more curious than amused as to why you believe that
Moussaoi's plea change has anything to do with the media's blackout of coverage that has confined these news reports and commentary to Wisconsin.

IMO, Moussaoui has even less credibility than Bush does:

Quote:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2066986/entry/2066994/

jurisprudence The law, lawyers, and the court.

When You Can't Beat 'Em …
Since everyone wants to kill Moussaoui, he'd be nuts not to agree.
By Dahlia Lithwick
Posted Tuesday, April 19, 2005, at 2:24 PM PT

Pleading guilty, but to what?

Zacarias Moussaoui is back.

After pleading guilty and then un-pleading; after representing himself (like a madman) and then not representing himself; after three years without a trial and years of appellate court wrangling that culminated in the Supreme Court's refusal last month to intervene in the case and grant him meaningful access to potentially exculpatory witnesses, Moussaoui has evidently written a letter to his trial judge, Leonie Brinkema, agreeing to plead guilty and accept the death penalty................

Quote:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2066986/entry/2066994/
From: Dahlia Lithwick
Subject: Who Are You Calling Crazy?
Friday, June 14, 2002, at 10:46 AM PT

................................."Yes. I understand. I would like to know one thing. Now that I am potentially my own lawyer, I would like to make a motion for my own release." It goes on like this all afternoon. He attempts, several times, to state for the record why his attorneys are working with the government to have him executed. "My credibility is undermined by them saying I am crazy." The fact that he is undermining himself by actually acting crazy seems to escape him. .....................................

maximusveritas · 04-30-2005, 04:23 AM

Why should the media cover this? It's just some guy spouting off 9-11 conspiracy theories. Big deal, we've heard it all before.
This has nothing to do with Liberal vs. Conservative media, it has to do with fringe conspiracy theories vs. actual news.

potifar · 04-30-2005, 07:10 AM

well... say everyone really takes a step back, levels the playing field and looks at the whole situation. who's been taking advantage of 9-11? tell me it's not bush, I dare ya! I dont have more information than the next american-gladiator watching american, but seriously, what's so hard to believe about the prez kicking off his presidency with a little upstaging of the Reichstag? The guy had 8 months in power to put it all together.

I know the idea's fucking scary, but people shouldn't immediately dismiss it.

Do you really buy his schtick about a 'web of terror'? Come on people, get up in your govt's face, at least attempt to hold them accountable!

Why in the world would bush have OPPOSED 9-11 investigations!?

Lebell · 04-30-2005, 07:45 AM

I read the article.

Moved to Paranoia.

tecoyah · 04-30-2005, 08:35 AM

While I will freely admit to a complete lack of respect....and deep distrust of Mr. Bush, I really think this is mere opinion, and not a new one at that. Likely there is much for this administration to hide in its record, and quite a bit in GWB's as well, but I find much of the above article to be conjecture, and warped opinion. Honestly....I likely would have moved this from politics to Paranoia as well.

Astrocloud · 04-30-2005, 09:41 AM

Even if Bush knew nothing of the attacks -the conclusions of the 911 commission are that senior FBI and CIA officials should have known about them...

In either case Bush is inept or evil. I believe he is somewhere in the middle.

samcol · 05-01-2005, 06:30 AM

Ya, it's easier to just go ahead and call it paranoid since it's hard to accept. It's more fun to just argue about petty shit like tom delay, banning gay books, or bible class in schools.

tecoyah · 05-01-2005, 06:56 AM

to be Honest with you guys....I would have moved this NOT because I find the information impossible....but because when I worked in the politics board....I tried to avoid the senseless bickering between the polarized sides. There is enough flaming and borderline trolling in there to feed the entire forum.....but, I suppose if we wish to scream at each other.....it is a good place to do it.
At some point I would hope people begin to actually communicate as adults in there....rather than deciding who is for us, and who is agin' us.Perhaps this thread should have been left in politics.....if only to keep the childish bitching securely contained within its walls. If I see any more of the poison leaching into the rest of this place....I will close this thread and slap people back into politics.

MSD · 05-09-2005, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcol

Ya, it's easier to just go ahead and call it paranoid since it's hard to accept. It's more fun to just argue about petty shit like tom delay, banning gay books, or bible class in schools.

When someone's "facts" and arguments have been beaten to death and, for the most part, been debunked even by the conspiracy theorists among us, the argument is the typical crap and doesn't deserve further discsussion. This becomes especially true when every source cited in the article is "Griffin said." There's nothing much to discuss here.

04-30-2005, 07:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
potifar Insane	well... say everyone really takes a step back, levels the playing field and looks at the whole situation. who's been taking advantage of 9-11? tell me it's not bush, I dare ya! I dont have more information than the next american-gladiator watching american, but seriously, what's so hard to believe about the prez kicking off his presidency with a little upstaging of the Reichstag? The guy had 8 months in power to put it all together. I know the idea's fucking scary, but people shouldn't immediately dismiss it. Do you really buy his schtick about a 'web of terror'? Come on people, get up in your govt's face, at least attempt to hold them accountable! Why in the world would bush have OPPOSED 9-11 investigations!? __________________ ...we barely remember what came before this precious moment...

04-30-2005, 07:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	I read the article. Moved to Paranoia. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

04-30-2005, 08:35 AM	#7 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	While I will freely admit to a complete lack of respect....and deep distrust of Mr. Bush, I really think this is mere opinion, and not a new one at that. Likely there is much for this administration to hide in its record, and quite a bit in GWB's as well, but I find much of the above article to be conjecture, and warped opinion. Honestly....I likely would have moved this from politics to Paranoia as well. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

05-01-2005, 06:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	to be Honest with you guys....I would have moved this NOT because I find the information impossible....but because when I worked in the politics board....I tried to avoid the senseless bickering between the polarized sides. There is enough flaming and borderline trolling in there to feed the entire forum.....but, I suppose if we wish to scream at each other.....it is a good place to do it. At some point I would hope people begin to actually communicate as adults in there....rather than deciding who is for us, and who is agin' us.Perhaps this thread should have been left in politics.....if only to keep the childish bitching securely contained within its walls. If I see any more of the poison leaching into the rest of this place....I will close this thread and slap people back into politics. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

04-29-2005, 10:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
F-18_Driver Loser Location: Check your six.	Funny how all conservatives are nut cases until one of the true fruitcakes comes up with this garbage. Even funnier that Zacarias Moussaoui totally forgot to mention Bush's involvement when he pled guilty. Link I doubt even the hard-core Bush opponents here are going to get very wrapped up in this discussion.

04-30-2005, 04:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	Why should the media cover this? It's just some guy spouting off 9-11 conspiracy theories. Big deal, we've heard it all before. This has nothing to do with Liberal vs. Conservative media, it has to do with fringe conspiracy theories vs. actual news.

04-30-2005, 09:41 AM	#8 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	Even if Bush knew nothing of the attacks -the conclusions of the 911 commission are that senior FBI and CIA officials should have known about them... In either case Bush is inept or evil. I believe he is somewhere in the middle.

05-01-2005, 06:30 AM	#9 (permalink)
samcol Junkie Location: Indiana	Ya, it's easier to just go ahead and call it paranoid since it's hard to accept. It's more fun to just argue about petty shit like tom delay, banning gay books, or bible class in schools.