Janey

I asked this in the other thread on ghosts, but I don't think that the discussion is headed in this direction, so here it is in a separate thread:

There's a lot here about people seeing ghosts. Just the other night my hubby and I were postulating about what exactly is a ghost.

Aside from seeing ghosts, can anybody articulate just what exactly a ghost is? In our discussion, we started to differentiate between spirits, ghosts and latent memory. My hubby said that if ghosts are the thoughts of people who have died, but don't realize it, (a la 6th sense) then how do the memories retain their integrity? because memory is linked to neural/chemical processes in the physical brain. Once a person dies, the physical connection is severed, therefore ghosts cannot exists.

I countered that ghosts are in fact spirits, which means that they are much more than mere memories. But if that is the case, why again can they be manifested in our presence?

any ideas anybody? Perhaps there is another thread that this question should be in, but I didn't want to split it out of this discussion.

ObieX

I can put forth a theory as to how ghosts can become visable(maybe). Since light is supposed to be some kind of visable electro-magnetic disturbance, maybe the "energy" that makes up a ghost is sometimes able to create such a disturbance (which is why you often see a ghost when they are "upset" or "sad", maybe their energy is much higher in that state (frustration?) therefore producing enough power to generate a visable form, an electromagnetic fluctuation.

As to what a ghost is exactly, i dunno. I guess it depends on a few things, like for example whether a human soul is present before it fits itself into a body at birth or conception (like with reincarnation) an energy disturbance that has found a way to implant itself into a physical form, possibly even manipulating evolution in such a way to form over time a body that is preferrable (like how in the bible how it says man is infused with a soul, whereas animals are not, and angels are not and they are just basically a form of energy.)
However if you want to go by a "soul" or "spirit" forming as a human grows and get older (gaining memories etc) Maybe the bioelectrical part of the brain has a place in that. patterns of energy swirling in such a way that they may possibly become quantum entangled or some such type deal, and therefore once the body dies the energy remains linked in some way.

Of course im just pulling this stuff out of my ass just now, i've never had to think about this much or put my thoughts on possibilities into words. :P

__________________
We Must Dissent.

Hampshire

in my opinion, being able to see a ghost is some sort of electro magnetic disturbance as was said. I believe that they are able to be seen for some unexplaned reason when the earth is balanced in a certain way. It also could be the state of mind the viewer is in also

zen_tom

They could be the kind of visual and aural hallucinations known to manifest themselves in the minds of people tired, on drugs or under some other form of physical, mental or emotional stress.

Janey

so your thoery is that they are not real?

sargon

Spirits get delt with efficiently, God or the Devil, or Purgatory. Something like that, there are no 'human' spirits roaming around haunting people. I think either it's a poser, or a hallucination, or a fragmented programming error.

Killconey

That is very interesting. Do you think that this would mean that all people become ghosts when they die, but we only see the upset and sad ones? That would be a really weird afterlife.

As for my opinion on ghosts, I have always believed that ghosts are the spirits of people who's soul has not found rest in the afterlife. I'm not quite certain that they exist because I have never seen one or known someone who saw one, but if they do that's what they are.

__________________
Look out for numbers two and up and they'll look out for you.

zen_tom

I'm not saying that they are not real - any experience is as real as any other at the time. If you see something, and feel the accompanying emotions, it may as well be real - to you. Seeing ghosts and having other types of visions has been happening to people for all of time. It's a part of the human condition, and something we should embrace and understand because these things provide us with important clues about ourselves.

Janey

yes, I understand that. But I want to concrete piice of evidence, which I can display to a third party: This is a Ghost. So, for that to happen, they should be quantifiable. A part of the natural realm.

I believe if a spirit is defined as being the essence of a human being, then it by default is a part of the natural realm. None of this should be defined as supernatural. We just may lack the method of detection, or of consistant, reproducable detection.

The same with ghosts, if they are real. Visions, which are part of the human condition, that is, internally interpreted manifestations of the mind (falling in the same category as dreams?) may not be real, as in concrete.

zen_tom

You might want some concrete evidence, but you'd be the first one ever if you ever got it. We have to accept the possibility that the reason why ghosts are so elusive is that they don't exist. At least not as real external, concrete entities.

However, that doesn't devalue the experience of having seen a ghost - it just explains it in terms of internal mental processes rather than strange authoritarian external ones.
If a ghost is a spirit of some kind, then you have to start asking what a spirit is, where it might come from and what are the processes by which it exists and operates.

It is far simpler to imagine people as being the same as animals and operating due to the same electro-chemical impulses that function inside their brains. If people have souls, then why not chimpanzees or dolphins or pets? But this discussion isn't asking whether ghosts exist or not, it's asking what they might be made of if they DID exist - so I will gracefully butt out before I get into trouble

Hain

I have taken some physics classes and the idea of concentrated electromagnetic disturbances is far fetched. It can't be done naturally and efficiently. The property of light is that it moves at the speed of light.

No, I believe in a "Over Soul" of all things and people. We all have the power to connect to this vast reservoir of conscience, and that these ghosts could just be people that have died and are more part of this conscience than any living person. What we see is not a true apparition made of light, but an illusion in our minds when we tap into that higher force. I don't believe it to be real but who really knows where beliefs end and truth starts?

__________________

////\\// IRONSKY.NET \\//\\\\

kramus

Part of the magic of humanity is what we can build using faith as part of the materials list. I have faith that there are great and unknowable things which we just aren't complete enough to hold in our minds. I also believe that we are part of some unimaginable and long standing condition which has found that life as we know it is an extremely important process that filters or catalyzes or transforms or transfigures aspects of that larger whatever in some manner. A byproduct of my belief is the inner knowledge that my personal life force, when I die, will be reintroduced or something to the larger whole. Which means that being dead merely means that you get back to the greater part of existance which we constrained/vitiated creatures just don't have the necessary to understand while we are alive. So being dead is ok, the hard and scary part is the dying - because with life being so important it is tough (read painful) to release from the physical. Now, I have no problem believing this greater whatever-it-may-be is occasionally remanifested in ways that we can sense simply because of the importance of the template that life has been emplaced to process it with. We are attuned to "seeing" the results of the template remanifestation because of another magical aspect of humanity, which is our ability (nay, need) to see patterns.

__________________
And now to disengage the clutch of the forebrain ...
I'm going with this - if you like artwork visit http://markfineart.ca

Amnesia620

I truly believe that a ghost is the energy of that person, trapped, or the energy itself regenerating continuously, occasionally building up to an extreme that it, somehow, displays - visual to the human eye.

Not stressed, not tired, without drugs or any other influence, I saw a ghost. He beckoned us, no one else could see him but me...we left instead of following him into the underground mine we had frequented over the last couple of months...only to find, a few days later, one of the areas of the pathway had caved in. I'm not sure what the connection is between seeing him and the dangerous situation we could have been part of...just thought I would share the details.

__________________
For example, I find that a lot of college girls are barbie doll carbon copies with few differences...Sadly, they're dumb, ditzy, immature, snotty, fake, or they are the gravitational center to orbiting drama. - Amnesia620