Sun Tzu

What proof arer you looking for? There has been samples taken showing elements. There are clear distinctions between the two trails with planes flying at the same time. Yes there are scientists that dont agree and there are just as many that do. Humans are causing global warming; no they're not.
One day every week theres no vectoring with an area this size stands out to me. As far as the populated/unpopulated areas you seem to keep refering that this is against the human population. While its already been established that has occured in the past, its not the case now.

According to the science in the article you provided (which was good information- thanks) there is nothing unusal that on what would normally be a cloudless day; the same conditions that should support cirrus formation (but isnt hence cloudless) support human made trails (nothing morre than clouds according to the article) that turn into an eventual hazy overcast covering the entire area. The article is stating while the process is forced the nuclei produced are the same as mother nature would produce the rain making process. Yet when refering to end results which it states are the same; natural conditions are selective? I dont buy it- actually to state it in a more humble manner, I dont understand how that is possible, maybe you do.

There is also the factor of large traces of elements found that are not from auto exhaust and synthetic fibers collected. There may be an explanation, I havent found it yet, perhaps you have which explains your certainty.

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Ustwo

The aircraft is adding turbulence, temperature differences, and particulate matter. Nature isn't being selective, she just needs a stirring stick and a seed for crystal formation.

Think of it as a supersaturated liquid.

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Sun Tzu

Do you know if the fuel is the same across the board for all airliners?

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Ustwo

All jetfuels are basically kerosine but with several variations. Commercial airliners use Jet A and Jet A-1 normally in the US, Canada uses Jet B too (lower freezing point). Military uses JP 1-8 which is basically the same stuff with some either anti-freezing, anti-corrosion etc additives.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Sun Tzu

According to the science that promotes lingering trails as nothing; all fuel type behave the same. It references exhaust information in general terms, and does not reference a point of there being differences in visible residual ice crystals from one fuel type to the other. Do you know if one variation will produce ice nuclei that survive longer than others?

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Ustwo

Not a clue, though an educated guess would say its the local conditions that determine how the trail behaves.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Sun Tzu

According to the science that promotes lingering trails as nothing; all fuel types behave the same. It references exhaust information in general terms, and does not reference a point of there being differences in visible residual ice crystals from one fuel type to the other.

Do you know if one variation will produce ice nuclei that survive longer than others?


The science doesn’t explain how human made “clouds” (the title many mainstream scientists are giving the lingering trails) being emitted from a jet that is clearly at a higher altitude than one producing a disappearing exhaust, survive their expanding descent. They are stating that the end product is essentially the same as mother nature produces in microcrystalline salt crystals formed by breaking ocean waves as well as volcanic dust and other particulates are driven aloft by updrafts. That would make sense. . . if the aircraft was lower than the jet emitting a disappearing trail. It falls short in explaining how ice nuclei survive the tropopause on their descent when the other trail clearly did not.

How do ice nuclei that were sensibly created at 35,000-40,000 feet continue to fall without melting or producing any type of moisture other than what the trail itself is being classified as. The other trail is behaving within the laws of the science some of the mainstream experts are explaining. It makes sense that different thermal layers will allow one jet to have a disappearing trail that is lower, but to have a higher trail linger, expand, and descend surviving past the same point doesn’t obey the very laws they are promoting.

A difference in fuel types could offer a feasible explanation for this, but if it were the case why wouldn’t they just state that? Aside from element samples collected (which are agreeably debatable) this would be easier to pass off than the assumption they seem to take that "you’ve seen one fuel, you’ve seen them all."

I think push-pull skipped over my point without giving it a second thought. Since you have more training in this area than anyone also here, your perspective would be interesting. Since I can offer no proof, and I don’t expect you or anyone to take my word for it (and that is completely reasonable), I will phrase this as a theoretical question:

Yesterday, the sky was completely trail free. I did notice two standard disappearing trails. Under any sensible circumstances, not seeing the other kind would be no big deal. Weather conditions yesterday did not support them. I can with great certainty, and complete accuracy predict that in 7-8 days another day of such conditions will occur. Still not a big deal. I can predict even further that the same thing will happen the following week, and the following week, and so on. Each 7-8 day cycle only producing 1 day. NOt 2 or more----just one. Its not ESP, but simple observations of the skies over my city for the last 2 ½ years. Some of those “clear days” did have normal clouds. I’m referring to being clear of trails.

My question is, if you observed this phenomenon yourself, would you at least question the odds of it happening? If you saw this to be true for yourself would it be in anyway puzzling to you? If not, is there an explanation how this could occur?


According to push-pull, the geography of a region could produce results as consistent as this. A geyser at Yellowstone going off at consistent intervals makes sense. A uniform break in mother nature to not support conditions that support aerial vectoring makes no sense. I’m striving to make some out of it though.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Ustwo

I've seen trails every day this week so far, I've been looking, other than when it was raining and I couldn't see the sky.

Its also been very clear, cold, and low temperatures.

I deny that they only happen on certain days with regularity. If they did that would be odd, but its a lie.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Sun Tzu

I have only made the statement Ive been seeing this over the city I live in. Im not traveling t ovarious regions and staying there to observe. Beyond that I simply asked if anyone would just observe and post their results. Forums can be useful for gathering such information. From my viweing it is odd, and has been alarming to me for some time. While my intentions for posting have varied in the past, my purpose is to gain information that others have, on both sides of any given issue. Its easy for anyone to go to a search engine and look something up, but many times some have provided links that I didnt find. Instead of getting mad about being called a liar, I'll just say thank you for at least looking for a week. Because I value your knowledge about environmental conditions, I'll will also add the first part of your last sentence only strengthens my suspicions.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Sun Tzu

Has anyone noticed a drop in "trail" activity over the past 3 months. If you havent been looking or noticed could you look over the next three days. If you could note whether you have seen the ususal criss cross pattern, only a couple, or none at all. I saw one the evening. It had been the first one I had seen in 91/2 weeks with the air traffic remaining the same.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Zeraph

They tried to make a gay bomb...anything is possible.

Sun Tzu

Is that a yes, no, or just your two cents?

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Zeraph

It's a, "I don't know but I'm open to the possibility and wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be true." As far as what I've noticed, I haven't seen them in awhile.

Sun Tzu

I wont even call them "chem trails" for the moment, just trails. Thank you for the information. As I stated earlier I havent seen them in weeks where Im at either. Usually they increase and thicken when the temperature drops.

__________________
To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

3GPositive

I hate to dissapoint you but normal trails can also last for hours. It's just an indication that the air is more humid.
http://www.cdli.ca/CITE/contrails.pdf

Anyway if someone wanted to spray us all with they would presumably want to do it in a way that makes sure they disperse over a wide area rather than stay in nice straight lines. Perhaps it's the ones that dissapear quickly you should worry about

Sun Tzu

I'm glad you posted. Enough information is out there that either someone thinks they are more, or not. It doesnt have to related to intentionally poisoning the public. They re finding enough medications in the water supply for that. My last point is there are no lingering trails in the skies. I've seen 2 in the last three months, and even those did not have the long lasting fall and fade effect. I've talked with other people and this sounds like its the case in their areas as well. Can you please watch over the next week to see if you see any of the common criss cross patterns or any trails at all and post here? Thank you.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Sun Tzu

Well they have started again. The skies had the classic criss cross patterns today. After several months of clear skies (perhaps 3 trails in total that I saw) and I record daily. For any that contibute these as water crystals do you find any aspect of that odd? Traffic was still present during those months the trails were not. I can only speak for my city. I wish others would have just looked up and reported their findings.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Church

There is actually a meteorologist out in California that somehow has sources to get when spraying is going to happen. He has a website for his forecasts, and hes almost always right.

CHEMTRAIL ALERT SYSTEM - OWSweather.com

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Zeraph

Wow, saw a really strange one a few days ago. A huge streak across the sky, literally about 5 times wider than normal. And darker too, like a dark purple. Was definitely not natural (far too straight), yet like nothing I had ever seen before. Anyone else see it? I'm in Arizona.

Sun Tzu

What part of AZ? I spend the half of each year in AZ. I saw a trail 2 weeks ago that looked identical to the missle test done years ago off the CA coast. I went from the ground up and had the very same characteristics. There was not a report of missle testing though.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Zeraph

Phoenix