Forensic Expert Says Bigfoot Is Real - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

JadziaDax · 11-01-2003, 07:14 AM

Forensic Expert Says Bigfoot Is Real

Stefan Lovgren
for National Geographic News
October 23, 2003
LINK

Quote:

It's been the subject of campfire stories for decades. A camera-elusive, grooming-challenged, bipedal ape-man that roams the mountain regions of North America. Some call it Sasquatch. Others know it as Bigfoot.

Thousands of people claim to have seen the hairy hominoid, but the evidence of its existence is fuzzy. There are few clear photographs of the oversized beast. No bones have ever been found. Countless pranksters have admitted to faking footprints.

Yet a small but vociferous number of scientists remain undeterred. Risking ridicule from other academics, they propose that there's enough forensic evidence to warrant something that has never been done: a comprehensive, scientific study to determine if the legendary primate actually exists.

"Given the scientific evidence that I have examined, I'm convinced there's a creature out there that is yet to be identified," said Jeff Meldrum, a professor of anatomy and anthropology at Idaho State University in Pocatello.

Thousands of Sightings

Sasquatch stories go back centuries. Tales of mythical giant apes lurk in the oral traditions of most Native American tribes, as well as in Europe and Asia. The Himalaya has its Abominable Snowman, or the Yeti. In Australia, Bigfoot is known as the Yowie Man.

Bigfoot advocates hypothesize that the primate is the offspring of an ape from Asia that wandered to North America during the Ice Age. They believe there are at least 2,000 ape men walking upright in North America's woods today.

An adult male is said to be at least 8 feet (2.4 meters) tall, weigh 800 pounds (360 kilograms), and have feet twice the size of a human's. The creatures are described as shy and nocturnal, and their diets consist mostly of berries and fruits.

Matt Moneymaker had been searching for Bigfoot for years. In the woods of eastern Ohio, he claims he finally came eye to eye with the elusive primate.

"It was 2 o'clock in the morning and the moon was a quarter full," recalled Moneymaker. "Suddenly, there he was, an eight-foot-tall creature, standing 15 feet away, growling at me. He wanted to let me know I was in the wrong place."

Moneymaker, who lives in Dana Point in southern California, is a lawyer who runs his own marketing agency. In his spare time, he leads the Bigfoot Field Researchers Organization, a network of more than 3,000 people who claim to have seen the Sasquatch.

Unfortunately, no one has been able to snap a clear picture of the beast.

Perhaps the most compelling photographic evidence of Bigfoot is a controversial short film shot by Roger Patterson in 1967, which appears to document a female Bigfoot striding along a riverbank in northern California.

"It certainly wasn't human"

Now, Bigfoot advocates are increasingly turning to forensic evidence to prove the existence of the giant creature.

Investigator Jimmy Chilcutt of the Conroe Police Department in Texas, who specializes in finger- and footprints, has analyzed the more than 150 casts of Bigfoot prints that Meldrum, the Idaho State professor, keeps in a laboratory.

Chilcutt says one footprint found in 1987 in Walla Walla in Washington State has convinced him that Bigfoot is real.

"The ridge flow pattern and the texture was completely different from anything I've ever seen," he said. "It certainly wasn't human, and of no known primate that I've examined. The print ridges flowed lengthwise along the foot, unlike human prints, which flow across. The texture of the ridges was about twice the thickness of a human, which indicated that this animal has a real thick skin."

Meldrum, meanwhile, says a 400-pound (180-kilogram) block of plaster known as the Skookum Cast provides further evidence of Bigfoot's existence. The cast was made in September 2000 from an impression of a large animal that had apparently lain down on its side to retrieve some fruit next to a mud hole in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest in Washington State.

Meldrum says the cast contains recognizable impressions of a forearm, a thigh, buttocks, an Achilles tendon and heel. "It's 40 to 50 percent bigger than a normal human," he said. "The anatomy doesn't jive with any known animal."

A few academics believe Meldrum could be right.

Renowned chimpanzee researcher Jane Goodall last year surprised an interviewer from National Public Radio when she said she was sure that large, undiscovered primates, such as the Yeti or Sasquatch, exist.

The Skeptics

But the vast majority of scientists still believe Bigfoot is little more than supermarket tabloid fodder. They wonder why no Bigfoot has ever been captured, dead or alive.

"The bottom line is, they don't have a body," said Michael Dennett, who writes for Skeptical Inquirer magazine and who has followed the Bigfoot debate for 20 years.

Bigfoot buffs note that it's rare to find a carcass of a grizzly bear in the wild. While that's true, grizzlies have not escaped photographic documentation.

Hair samples that have been recovered from alleged Bigfoot encounters have turned out to come from elk, bears or cows.

Many of the sightings and footprints, meanwhile, have proved to be hoaxes.

After Bigfoot tracker Ray Wallace died in a California nursing home last year, his children finally announced that their prank-loving dad had created the modern myth of Bigfoot when he used a pair of carved wooden feet to create a track of giant footprints in a northern California logging camp in 1958.

Dennett says he's not surprised by the flood of Bigfoot sightings.

"It's the same kind of eyewitness reports we see for the Loch Ness Sea Monster, UFOs, ghosts, you name it," he said. "The monster thing is a universal product of the human mind. We hear such stories from around the world."

What do you think? Is Bigfoot real? Could there be this unexplained creature lurking around in the wild?

We certainly don't know everything there is to know about life and the earth. There are other legends and such that they have proven either true or false.

MSD · 11-01-2003, 10:58 PM

I've seen a lot more evidence that bigfoot (or a race of large primates) exists than evidence (whether physical or logical) to the contrary.

I believe that bigfoot is real, and more intelligent and intentionally elusive than we suspect.

Orodinn · 11-02-2003, 03:16 AM

I dont believe it one sec.

torgone · 11-03-2003, 10:51 AM

It's certainly possible that creatures exist that we haven't discovered yet.

dragonhawk · 11-03-2003, 02:08 PM

I believe it is real.

Gortexfogg · 11-06-2003, 08:57 AM

If the Native Americans saw him, and they weren't mistaking a bear or something, then Bigfoot had to have existed. I think he still exists today.

rainbow · 11-06-2003, 05:39 PM

Until we've put up strip malls on every square inch of free land we definately can't toss out the idea of any undiscovered creatur e running around in the wilderness.

empu · 11-07-2003, 01:07 AM

A few years ago I was on a camping trip in Eastern Oregon with a friend of mine from college, and one night we heard a strange noise coming from a bunch of trees about 100 feet from our tent. Not really in the mood to have an extended encounter with any of the larger wildlife that inhabit that region, we grabbed our flashlights and made a rush towards the source of the noise, howling and shouting in the hope of scaring the animal away. Much to our astonishment, a huge, hairy man-beast stumbled out of the bushes and without so much as a glance in our direction disappeared into the darkness. We were stunned. I swear it was no bear -- it had to be Bigfoot! Before we could take another step, a rabbit darted out of the trees and scampered after him. I shone my flashlight at the rabbit and couldn't believe what I saw. The little bugger was carrying a basket filled with painted eggs! Unbelievable.

Devilchild · 11-07-2003, 06:35 AM

hahaha

almost had me going there for a minute empu, shame on you, lol

its an intresting idea, but i dont think its true, people would of found them by now.

BentNotTwisted · 11-07-2003, 03:59 PM

I am very skeptical of their existance. How much food does an 800 lb mammal need survive? How much range would each animal need if they had to find berries and 'Fruit'? I know the forests of the Northwest are enormous, but how would these animals interbreed and still find sustenance? That and the fact no one has ever gotten a picture of one leads me to believe they are a fabrication of peoples imagination. The article didn't even mention the '67 Roger Patterson film was revealed as a hoax.

vermin · 11-07-2003, 06:18 PM

I don't believe in Bigfoot or flying saucers. I believe people get confused and try to explain what they don't understand.

Fire · 11-26-2003, 10:03 PM

I don't know- one very reliable person I know claims to have seen something that resembles bigfoot while on a hunting trip in southern missouri- swears that it was not a bear and there was no alcohol involved- says that it looked right at him and that it was like being stared at by a man, not an animal- said he got out of there quick and has not, nor will he, return- seems strange that no one has ever gotten good photo evidence though, and questions of how one hides something that big are telling- then again, there are still quite a few wide open spaces out there and who knows....

geodaro · 12-08-2003, 10:05 AM

Two things I am certain about:

1. Bigfoot is an urban legend of the upmost quality!
2. I don't ever seem to know anything about what I am talking about!

You decide!

ChrisJericho · 12-09-2003, 01:41 AM

I do not know if Bigfoot is real or not. However, if the reports are true, this animal would be enormous. Sooner or later SOMEONE would shoot one, take a good picture or come across a huge ass weird skull. The mere fact that no one has found any definitive evdence in the last 50 years casts some doubt on the existence of bigfoot.

Snakedance · 12-09-2003, 08:55 AM

I was once a skeptic. I have seen Bigfoot, multiple times. My brother married it. No question: Long matted hair, smells bad, big feet, howls all the time and very antisocial. We are going to have a family reunion after Christmas and I will get a chance to meet her sister. She goes by the name Yeti.

Mojo_PeiPei · 12-09-2003, 09:06 AM

I seem to remember hearing an expert medical doctor talking about the footage o f that one video from back in the 60's. Basically what he said was that if it was a hoax that human would have been in ALOT of pain due to the fact of his extreme hunched/ slouch and the fact that his arms would have be severly dislocated.

default_i · 12-09-2003, 08:16 PM

I won't rule it out completely, but at this point, unless it looks a lot like an existing species, it's not bloody likely.

VitaminH · 12-10-2003, 10:41 PM

empu that was hilarious

I'm highly skeptical that bigfoot exists. Although it can never be totally ruled out I suppose...

thingstodo · 12-11-2003, 04:13 AM

I think it exists. There is a lot of territory up north that is pretty open. It just makes sense that thre is still more out there. You don't know what you don't know.

Acutsef · 12-12-2003, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fire
I don't know- one very reliable person I know claims to have seen something that resembles bigfoot while on a hunting trip in southern missouri- swears that it was not a bear and there was no alcohol involved- says that it looked right at him and that it was like being stared at by a man....

If your mate was on a hunting trip, he would have had say a rifle with him. If the MOFO had shot the supposed creature he would of been *alot* richer and put an end to this debate.

Paeder · 12-12-2003, 09:29 AM

sasquatch is real. just ask tenacious d. they know. "Sasquatch, we know your love is reeeeeeaaaaaaallllllll!!!!!"

White Cluster · 12-12-2003, 10:13 PM

good argument....interesting points...

they should have said they are cannibalistic though......where else would the bodies go when they die?

monkeydriven · 12-26-2003, 09:44 AM

There is probably something to it...I believe it's some huge bear or something

slimshaydee · 12-28-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vermin
I believe people get confused and try to explain what they don't understand.

...which leads to religions

shakran · 01-08-2004, 03:08 AM

if bigfoot existed we'd have seen more of it by now. It takes a large population (6,000 at the barest minimum) to maintain enough genetic diversity to have a viable sustaining population. In other words, the woods oughta be crawling with the damn things. Why haven't we EVER gotten any conclusive evidence as to its existance?

peeweesbigbong · 01-14-2004, 05:40 PM

wasnt the giant panda not even discovered until around 1913? correct me if im wrong but i believe thats a pretty big animal that wasnt even discovered 100 years ago, also there is the collossal squid (collossal meaning its eyes were bigger than dinner plates) which scientists only really heard 'stories' about until one washed ashore near New Zealand last year,

Mr.Deflok · 01-14-2004, 06:17 PM

But what would Big-Foot be derrived from genetically? Surely if this species were a form of man stemed from the simians we would have some sort of evidence of this.

I still like to believe that creatures such as BF exist but should still like to see concrete evidence.

scansinboy · 01-28-2004, 03:08 AM

Scientists have proven that the Sasquatch, he is real.
Take a look at the <a href="http://www.columbian.com/outerlimits/bigfoot.jpg">plaster cast</a> of his foot, now you know he's real.
Listen real close to the <a href="http://www.coasttocoastam.com/audio/bigfoot5.mp3">audio tape</a>, not human, now you know he's real.
Couldn't be a <a href="http://www.francoamericannovelty.com/Images/costumes/CapesRobes/jpeg/31592.jpg">man in gorilla suit</a>, no fuckin' way, now you know he's real.

bonehed1 · 01-28-2004, 09:21 AM

I think BF is just some tall hairy a$$ hill billy who has nothing better to do then wander around in the woods looking for a squirel to rape.

Cynthetiq · 02-04-2004, 09:00 AM

there's plenty of unknown and undiscovered animals all over the world.

we find new ones every day.

MrFailure · 02-06-2004, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bonehed1
I think BF is just some tall hairy a$$ hill billy who has nothing better to do then wander around in the woods looking for a squirel to rape.

That made me laugh so hard I cried.
I'm not sure if its real or not, but like most of you said, you cant just blow it off as a myth cause we dont know everything.

jasonresno · 02-06-2004, 05:26 PM

What is so hard to believe about there being an animal in the wild? I mean...well what is so hard about that? I mean I know that there are hard to find traces of it...but so? Did you know that at the bottom the Mariannas Trench there are worms as round as trucks and longer than most whales? If I told you that to your face, would you believe it? Course not, but there are..

kurtisj · 02-08-2004, 08:53 PM

I totally believe it, there is all kinds of places for them to hide, they dont find corpses because of all those scavenger animals out there, bones get gnawed on. It's totally possible.

11-03-2003, 10:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
torgone What's beyond psycho? Location: Still out there	It's certainly possible that creatures exist that we haven't discovered yet. __________________ "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." Groucho Marx

11-03-2003, 02:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
dragonhawk Psycho Location: In Games.	I believe it is real. __________________ ---------------------------------------------- "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

11-07-2003, 03:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
BentNotTwisted Optimistic Skeptic Location: Midway between a Beehive and Centennial	I am very skeptical of their existance. How much food does an 800 lb mammal need survive? How much range would each animal need if they had to find berries and 'Fruit'? I know the forests of the Northwest are enormous, but how would these animals interbreed and still find sustenance? That and the fact no one has ever gotten a picture of one leads me to believe they are a fabrication of peoples imagination. The article didn't even mention the '67 Roger Patterson film was revealed as a hoax. __________________ IS THAT IT ???!!! Do you even know what 'it' is? When the last man dies for just words that he said... We Shall Be Free

11-07-2003, 06:18 PM	#11 (permalink)
vermin Indifferent to anti-matter Location: Tucson, AZ	I don't believe in Bigfoot or flying saucers. I believe people get confused and try to explain what they don't understand. __________________ If puns were sausages, this would be the wurst.

11-26-2003, 10:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	I don't know- one very reliable person I know claims to have seen something that resembles bigfoot while on a hunting trip in southern missouri- swears that it was not a bear and there was no alcohol involved- says that it looked right at him and that it was like being stared at by a man, not an animal- said he got out of there quick and has not, nor will he, return- seems strange that no one has ever gotten good photo evidence though, and questions of how one hides something that big are telling- then again, there are still quite a few wide open spaces out there and who knows.... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

11-01-2003, 10:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I've seen a lot more evidence that bigfoot (or a race of large primates) exists than evidence (whether physical or logical) to the contrary. I believe that bigfoot is real, and more intelligent and intentionally elusive than we suspect.

11-02-2003, 03:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
Orodinn Crazy	I dont believe it one sec.

11-06-2003, 08:57 AM	#6 (permalink)
Gortexfogg I and I Location: Stillwater, OK	If the Native Americans saw him, and they weren't mistaking a bear or something, then Bigfoot had to have existed. I think he still exists today.

11-06-2003, 05:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
rainbow Upright	Until we've put up strip malls on every square inch of free land we definately can't toss out the idea of any undiscovered creatur e running around in the wilderness.

11-07-2003, 01:07 AM	#8 (permalink)
empu Crazy	A few years ago I was on a camping trip in Eastern Oregon with a friend of mine from college, and one night we heard a strange noise coming from a bunch of trees about 100 feet from our tent. Not really in the mood to have an extended encounter with any of the larger wildlife that inhabit that region, we grabbed our flashlights and made a rush towards the source of the noise, howling and shouting in the hope of scaring the animal away. Much to our astonishment, a huge, hairy man-beast stumbled out of the bushes and without so much as a glance in our direction disappeared into the darkness. We were stunned. I swear it was no bear -- it had to be Bigfoot! Before we could take another step, a rabbit darted out of the trees and scampered after him. I shone my flashlight at the rabbit and couldn't believe what I saw. The little bugger was carrying a basket filled with painted eggs! Unbelievable.

11-07-2003, 06:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
Devilchild Crazy	hahaha almost had me going there for a minute empu, shame on you, lol its an intresting idea, but i dont think its true, people would of found them by now.

12-08-2003, 10:05 AM	#13 (permalink)
geodaro Psycho	Two things I am certain about: 1. Bigfoot is an urban legend of the upmost quality! 2. I don't ever seem to know anything about what I am talking about! You decide!

12-09-2003, 01:41 AM	#14 (permalink)
ChrisJericho eat more fruit Location: Seattle	I do not know if Bigfoot is real or not. However, if the reports are true, this animal would be enormous. Sooner or later SOMEONE would shoot one, take a good picture or come across a huge ass weird skull. The mere fact that no one has found any definitive evdence in the last 50 years casts some doubt on the existence of bigfoot. __________________ "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

12-09-2003, 08:55 AM	#15 (permalink)
Snakedance Enhanced With Psychotrophics Location: Snakepit	I was once a skeptic. I have seen Bigfoot, multiple times. My brother married it. No question: Long matted hair, smells bad, big feet, howls all the time and very antisocial. We are going to have a family reunion after Christmas and I will get a chance to meet her sister. She goes by the name Yeti. __________________ "When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity. - Albert Einstein

12-09-2003, 09:06 AM	#16 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	I seem to remember hearing an expert medical doctor talking about the footage o f that one video from back in the 60's. Basically what he said was that if it was a hoax that human would have been in ALOT of pain due to the fact of his extreme hunched/ slouch and the fact that his arms would have be severly dislocated. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

12-09-2003, 08:16 PM	#17 (permalink)
default_i Upright	I won't rule it out completely, but at this point, unless it looks a lot like an existing species, it's not bloody likely.

12-10-2003, 10:41 PM	#18 (permalink)
VitaminH An embarrassment to myself and those around me... Location: Pants	empu that was hilarious I'm highly skeptical that bigfoot exists. Although it can never be totally ruled out I suppose... __________________ "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte

12-11-2003, 04:13 AM	#19 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	I think it exists. There is a lot of territory up north that is pretty open. It just makes sense that thre is still more out there. You don't know what you don't know. __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.

12-12-2003, 09:29 AM	#21 (permalink)
Paeder Upright Location: Hell???	sasquatch is real. just ask tenacious d. they know. "Sasquatch, we know your love is reeeeeeaaaaaaallllllll!!!!!" __________________ "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away."----Henry David Thoreau

12-12-2003, 10:13 PM	#22 (permalink)
White Cluster Addict	good argument....interesting points... they should have said they are cannibalistic though......where else would the bodies go when they die?

12-26-2003, 09:44 AM	#23 (permalink)
monkeydriven Addict Location: Boston	There is probably something to it...I believe it's some huge bear or something __________________ you think i got my eyes closed but i've been lookin' at you the whole f&ckin' time... ------------------------------------------------ Posting from the home of the 2004 World Champion Boston Red Sox

01-08-2004, 03:08 AM	#25 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	if bigfoot existed we'd have seen more of it by now. It takes a large population (6,000 at the barest minimum) to maintain enough genetic diversity to have a viable sustaining population. In other words, the woods oughta be crawling with the damn things. Why haven't we EVER gotten any conclusive evidence as to its existance?

01-14-2004, 05:40 PM	#26 (permalink)
peeweesbigbong Tilted	wasnt the giant panda not even discovered until around 1913? correct me if im wrong but i believe thats a pretty big animal that wasnt even discovered 100 years ago, also there is the collossal squid (collossal meaning its eyes were bigger than dinner plates) which scientists only really heard 'stories' about until one washed ashore near New Zealand last year,

01-14-2004, 06:17 PM	#27 (permalink)
Mr.Deflok Blood + Fire Location: New Zealand	But what would Big-Foot be derrived from genetically? Surely if this species were a form of man stemed from the simians we would have some sort of evidence of this. I still like to believe that creatures such as BF exist but should still like to see concrete evidence.

01-28-2004, 03:08 AM	#28 (permalink)
scansinboy Insane Location: Milwaukee	Scientists have proven that the Sasquatch, he is real. Take a look at the <a href="http://www.columbian.com/outerlimits/bigfoot.jpg">plaster cast</a> of his foot, now you know he's real. Listen real close to the <a href="http://www.coasttocoastam.com/audio/bigfoot5.mp3">audio tape</a>, not human, now you know he's real. Couldn't be a <a href="http://www.francoamericannovelty.com/Images/costumes/CapesRobes/jpeg/31592.jpg">man in gorilla suit</a>, no fuckin' way, now you know he's real. __________________ Don't blame me... I voted for Kodos! Last edited by scansinboy; 01-28-2004 at 03:27 AM..

01-28-2004, 09:21 AM	#29 (permalink)
bonehed1 Psycho Location: California	I think BF is just some tall hairy a$$ hill billy who has nothing better to do then wander around in the woods looking for a squirel to rape. __________________ Stuff is Good

02-04-2004, 09:00 AM	#30 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	there's plenty of unknown and undiscovered animals all over the world. we find new ones every day. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

02-06-2004, 05:26 PM	#32 (permalink)
jasonresno Banned	What is so hard to believe about there being an animal in the wild? I mean...well what is so hard about that? I mean I know that there are hard to find traces of it...but so? Did you know that at the bottom the Mariannas Trench there are worms as round as trucks and longer than most whales? If I told you that to your face, would you believe it? Course not, but there are..

02-08-2004, 08:53 PM	#33 (permalink)
kurtisj Insane Location: The Wick	I totally believe it, there is all kinds of places for them to hide, they dont find corpses because of all those scavenger animals out there, bones get gnawed on. It's totally possible. __________________ Marvin the Mountie Always Gets His Kurtisj.