dylanmarsh

Does anyone else out there believe that the fourth flight on 9/11 was actually shot down by the military and that the passengers overtaking the hijackers was an elaborate hoax? There was an article on the Cape Cod Times website that had an interview with one of the Navy(?) pilots that flew on 9/11 and he stated that he had heard that flight 93 was actually shot down before it could reach Washington DC.

Garcon

Seams irrelevant, doesn't it? Unless you believe that there were no hijackers/terrorists on the plane. If there were, then the plane went down in a field and everyone on board died. Otherwise, they would have crashed it into the Whitehouse or some other populated place and more people would have died.

Personnally, I believe the fourth plane was intended for the Whitehouse. Those fuckheads planned a major terrorist plan and executed it almost without error. Quite frankly, I'd be surprised if they hadn't gone for the Whitehouse. Thankfully, the passengers on that plane wouldn't let it happen. God bless those people for their bravery. May the devil be eternally pissing gasoline on the evil bastards who planned and executed the 9/11 attack.

dylanmarsh

I think it is very relevant to the current state of the world. Bush used this "passenger take-over" theory to further the patriotic propaganda to hunt down "terrorists" and to settle a family dispute with Sadam Hussien.

I do believe that there were terrorists on that plane and I do think that the military shot it down before they could finish their out their plot. Seems to me that there would be something left of the plane than just a hole in the Penn forest. Even the bombed Pan-Am flight in Lockerby, Scotland had some remnants after the disaster --- Flight 93 had none.

rider6061

No matter what happened to Flight 93...NEVER FORGET

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Garcon

Ok, I agree that Bush took the whole Saddam thing way too far and he still hasn't found any WMD's. But why the hell would he need to build some story about Flight 93 after the WTC and the Pentagon. If there were no Flight 93 he would have had the same support that he got from the American people and their allies.

ObieX

I thought the story they put out was that the plane that hit the pentagon was actually headed for the white house, couldnt find it through the trees, and smacked into the pentagon instead (easy target).

As for flight 93 there have been reports of debris found up to 7 miles from the crash site. There have also been eye-witness accounts of the plane bursting into a fireball before it smacked into the ground. Both of which point to the plane being shot down. Shot down or crashed it did save lives. As bad as the day was it could still have been much much worse.

I could see the government wanting to focus on the "heroic acts of the passengers" instead of admitting they shot the plane down (if it was shot down). The added catch phrase of "lets roll" would have been the icing on the cake. This administration has no qualm about lying. Their only problem is they are extremely horrible at it, even for politicians.

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spurswood

There were terrorists on fligt 93, and it was shot down.
But it had to be done as another thousand people could have died if it was left to go where they intended. I think we should have been told it was sht down though. People would have underestood the reasons for doing it.

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prosequence

Shot down... that's my expert opinion. Which doesn't really amount to much. It's a tough call to say if the whole passenger takeover story was true or not, they could have said they had to shoot it down to prevent more deaths, and it would have been accepted, but it was A LOT easier to say heroic passengers brought it down before the final destination.

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prosequence

I do have a question though....
Were the black box recordings ever released on any of the flights?
Was it conclussive that is was the depicted passengers who hijacked each plane ?

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MSD

The black boxes in the WTC and Pentagon crashes were opened to reveal that the mylar tape had melted and then hardened in the hours of fire.

As for Flight 93, the official opinion by analysts at the present time is that the terrorists detonated a bomb. I believe that it's more logical that it was shot down out of necessity. The reason we never heard about it (it has never been officially denied) is that we needed good news, and the story that brave passengers sacrificed themselves in order to save others fit that perfectly, and the fact that in our shocked state, most people would not have been willing to accept that our government shot down a civilian flight, even after it had become a guided missile to be used against us.

QuasiMojo

My question would then be, what about the numerous cell-phone converations with people on the ground.

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Charlatan

Let's face it... we all prefer to think that it was crashed while the passengers were in the process of taking it back. It makes us feel better so why not stick with this version of events?

Unless the government comes out and definitively says, "We shot it down" What purpose does it serve to speculate.

The end result is the same. The passengers are dead and the plane never reached it's destination.

Isn't it better to have the thought of a group of brave passengers fight for control rather than a calculated destruction of the plane?

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asshopo

No, actaully, I feel you are wrong. They would have said that the gov. was wrong for shooting down a passenger plane.

Plain and simple.

They don't think long enough to think that, if in fact the plane was shot down, that it's target was not hit, killing more people.

Most people are sheep with no common sense.

Robblee

It wouldn't surprise me if it was shot down, but with todays Military someone would have spilled the beans completly buy now so i'm thinking it really went down they way they stated with the people on the plane fighting back.

UnseenX

I've been convinced that it was shot down for two years now. As previously mentioned after any other plane crash there is so much debris and media coverage and shots of what is left of the plane all over the news. They had nothing to show of this plane crash other then a spot on the ground. As for the heroic passengers story, it sounds like good Hollywood to me. Almost sounds like something out of the script for a die hard movie. I believe we were lied to yet again. Then again it would not sit well with voters if told that our own governtment shot down a passenger plane , even if it was for "the greater good". SO they have to sugar coat things for the masses, anything to keep the lemmings in line.

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mimiartele

i hope the official version of the story of flight 93 is true. it's the one i want to believe--not because i couldn't accept the plane having been shot down but because i want to believe those people were heroes.

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Bill O'Rights

Yeah...that.

I grew up less than 20 miles from the flight 93 crash site. Friends of mine from back "home" tell me of eyewitnesses to military fighters over the area prior to and after the crash of flight 93.

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Beltruckus

Who gives a shit it was 2 years ago people need to get over it in my opinion.

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ashlass

Regardless of whether the govt shot it down or not, there was definitely a passenger uprising going on.

"Vanity Fair" ran a great article on all the phone calls that were made from passengers. They interviewed the recipients of those various calls and then put it all in chronological order. Water was being boiled, anything that could be used as a weapon was being stashed, people were commenting that they were getting ready to act.

Of course, I suppose it could be argued that the govt faked all those calls on-the-fly, or maybe they paid off a bunch of folks to CLAIM they got calls...

prosequence

Another question... with the black boxes destroyed, how do we know who the hijackers were?

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maynard0012

they probably guessed by looking at the passenger list for muslims who had been to air school?

nightwatcher

Hey man, I still believe the C.I.A. flew the planes into the towers... but I am just a delusional, paranoid freak. I think something so tragic is hard to come to terms with and we tend to look for wild theories to comfort ourselves. Unfortunately, sometimes our wildest theories pale in comparison to the truth. Time for more medication!

nightwatcher

"but with todays Military someone would have spilled the beans completly "... dude, us paranoid conspiacy theorists have a great way to silence unruly soldiers... 'friendly fire'

cjjeep21

I believe that it was shot down. Right after it happened, CNN had a news story on their website that described two debris fields. One at the crash site and one two miles away. This story was then removed from the website a few hours later and nothing was ever mentioned about the second debris field again.
I also believe that the passangers were trying to regain control of the plan, it's just that the gov't could not take a chance on the passangers failing and the plane reaching it's target.

dragonhawk

There is a website that shows timelines of when the fighters were scrambled and reported flight times. The fighters could have been at the crash site minutes before they were actually reported.

http://www.unansweredquestions.org/t.../flight93.html

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heccubusiv

It might not be the best eye wtiness acount but I do live real close to the plane crash and I did see a low flying plane on 911 which was the plane that crashed but did not remeber it exploded or fire before it hit the round. I was confused why the plane was soo low when there are no major airports around.

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dylanmarsh

Great comment. I hadn't seen this website but it definitely supports what I was stating in the beginning: Flight 93 was shot down by the US military.

Does anyone know if the records for 9/11 are completely sealed? If so, what sort of a timetable is there before they are released to the public?

Cynthetiq

probably the same time the JFK papers are...

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supafly

If they shot down the plane, we will probably never find out. Thats the way it works with pollitics. It will also be difficult to explain to the people who lost someone in the "crachs". They could have survived.

Why post this in Tilted Paranoia I don't think its paranoid when in fact you are sceptic about things.

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dylanmarsh

Is there a "Tilted Skepticism" forum?

dailyjo2003

What about the plane that crashed on Long Island a short time after 9/11?? You never hear anything about that.

hlprmnky

I can totally understand the government not trusting the people to deal with it well, if indeed they did shoot down flight 93. But I think that in general people would have understood, or could have been made to understand, the terrible calculus of war. Deciding that these hundred people must die so that these other thousand people might live is terrible, but generally people will forgive leaders for doing it (cf., nobody calls Churchill 'the Butcher of Coventry')

Most heart-wrenching is the idea of the passengers successfully overthrowing the hijackers and *then* getting shot down *anyhow*, due to not being able to successfully communicate that they were in command of the plane.

*That* is a story I think the government would cover up, even though in practice it is no different than the case where the passengers are all killed or subdued and the plane/weapon is still on its mission.

Church

There are plenty of things I find... peculiar about the whole 9/11 incident. Firstly, and probably the biggest one comes from the Pentagon reports. Apprently the plane bounced off of the lawn right before it hit the wall. Well hello... there was not a scratch on the Pentagon wall. Secondly, there have been numerous reports that an unmarked white fighter jet was sighted around flight 93 right before it went down. I know plenty of other things about this, but I fear saying them so I will not.

Fearless_Hyena

I believe it was shot down AND that the story of the passengers is probably mostly true -- I don't think the two stories are mutually exclusive at all. However the passengers were unfortunately not successful in overtaking the hijackers before it went down. This site hasn't been updated in a while, but check it out:
http://www.flight93crash.com/

Like some of the previous posters, I don't think we'll ever find out the truth for sure, if we havent already. It's not like it's something the government would ever admit.

Coolidge

You never hear about the successful lies

yournamehere

There were too many people in contact with Flight 93 passengers via cell phones. A missile could take down a 757, but it wouldn't instantaneously "vaporize" it. I find it hard to believe that if it were indeed hit by a missile, at least one person did not hear their loved one on the plane utter a quick "WTF?"

Don't forget - successful at reaching their target or not, the scum that were in control of that airplane had no intention of living. I believe that when they heard the commotion outside the cockpit, they just nosed the plane down into the ground. At full throttle, it wouldn't have taken long.

Or - I could be wrong.

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Snakebyt

this is an interesting theory, I wouldnt be suprised at all if it was shot down.
I still cant see how the other planes were taken over with nothing more than small knives. Im sure that the passengers could have taken control over the situation, but im sure they didnt for fear of being arrested for assault, or a hate crime against muslims/middle easterners ect...
Seems like criminals have more rights that citizens these days

yournamehere

You have to realize, <b>Snakebyt</b>, that pre-9/11, hijackers usually spared the passengers as long as their demands were being met. I'm sure that all the passengers felt that their hijacked flight would only delay their travel plans by a day or so - in fact I'm sure the hijackers told them that to pacify them.

That was then - it will never happen again that easily, though - we know better now (as did the Flight 93 passengers).

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geodaro

I don't believe it. If it was shot down, there would definately be some macho fighter-pilot out there trying to get on the cover of People magazine.

Bookman

All administration explanations of the events of that AM are TOO shady to believe. Whether you want to buy them or not, there is NO substantiation. There are some good Photos and video of people crying and fireballs but no real logic. You can start by asking a expert pilot abouot the manuevers executed that day. There have been no credentialed pilots on record attesting to the probability that people who trained on Computers and Cessnas could handle the vessels. If they said ex-expert-pilots from abroad where the culprits are from, it would be easier to swallow.
The initial reports were that it was shot down. All the other evidence and lack of evidence support that...the tear jerking "Lets Roll" story does not.