Zeraph

I'm sad to see this forum dieing. Its good to question authority and such.

Anyways, how far does corruption go into the police force? For instance the top brass has a lot of leverage to change their subservient cops viewpoints because of several reasons. (and I know this because I have a cop in my family.) Most end up doing it for the great retirement package (if they stay long term, which is mostly what we're concerned with in this thread, older/long term cops). And NO cop wants to risk that. The other is the obedience training they go through in the academy.

I know all about their methods and police academy tactics. For instance one instance to instill fear and control (in a particular academy, not saying all do this, but I got this first hand from a cop that went there) the trainers would put an extra bag of chips or candy bar in the vending machines. So when someone bought something they would get two things. Most would take both (after all, how do you even return it?) The trainees that did, got kicked immediately, in front of everyone, with as much embarrassment piled on as possible to influence the other trainees. Basically they said taking it was an instance of theft, and lying, and cheating. Basically confusing their standard (what normal people learn) moral compass. This is just the start.

Now this seems good at first, but what happens to that perfect obedience when an upper tier cop eventually tells em to take a bribe or some such? They have the perfect system in place to create an ongoing corruption, similar to an organization like the mob.

And then there are cops that end up dead in hit and runs and such. Its a huge story, but then suddenly goes away. They almost never find the (true) killer, after all it'd be easy for them to frame someone. Could that have been a cop rebelling against the corruption? Maybe maybe not.

woohog1

I would say that I guess it depends on the person, not necissarly on the force. If presented w/ such a situtation, it would depend on the persons moral compass and what they believe to be right and wrong. If that makes sense.
I do however know of many many officers that seem to think they are above the law. For instance I saw an officer in my town turn his lights on, go tearing down the main drag, and pull into Burger King drive thru. When I called the station, they said "he was taking his lunch" and hung up on me. Now im sure thats not exactly what your talking about, but its the first thing that comes to mind.

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MSD

Cops are people like you and me. The exceptions are state troopers and sheriffs, who are people like you and me but with impressive mustaches. People tend to look for jobs that they would enjoy. People who like cars are more likely to become mechanics. People who like to have authority are more likely to become cops. You get some bad apples just like you do in any sample of normal people, maybe a few more because of the nature of the job, but most are people trying to make an honest living and keep their communities safe. Management in every profession is riddled with corruption, but societal attitudes toward and expectations of police are skewed and heavily politicized.

Cynthetiq

I used to see corrupt NYPD cops all the time when I first moved into NY area. I'd see them sleeping in the cars, doing lines on the dashboard, shaking down dealers and hookers. Hell, there was a PD run whore house down the block from where I worked for years.

But those were the old days, before Guliani cleaned up NYC.

I'm sure it still exists to some degree, but I just don't see it as much if at all.

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Tully Mars

I really think MSD really hit it out of the park and I don't have much else to say other then it really can depend on the agency. I worked my whole career for the State of Oregon. I was officially a Parole Officer but I also did overtime shifts for the county as a deputy. Overtime can add up to a lot in this line of work. A federally funded grant to increase DUII patrols paid for my 40X24 shop in one year. I always worked in very rural areas. Which means I dealt with a lot of small town police depts. Some had very up standing by the book attitudes while other were pretty lose with the rule book. I can think of one city officer who always 'heard" a noise therefore didn't need a warrant to enter a house. I also know of two depts. who were taken over by the state or the feds due to complete and total corporation. Not too many years ago the DA of Clatsop County Oregon was arrested, convicted and served time for corruption. And last fall a deputy I used to work with was arrested for sexual assault. That case is being transferred to another jurisdiction to avoid the appearance of impropriety, though his own dept. made the initial arrest.

I don't know anything about large city depts. so I can't speak to what Cyn's seeing but I think things have gotten better not worse. I used to hear stories about "back in the day." Most of them were pretty fucked up stories and often the old timer telling them was fondly remembering beating the crap out of some "hippie." I think dash cams and the fact everyone's cell phone is also a video camera is helping keep things moving in the right direction.

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genuinegirly

I really do think that the days of corrupt cops are nearing an end.
I was going to post something along these lines:
Thanks, Tully.

Also, with this economic downturn there is a trend of more potential cops trying to get into the service who have college degrees. At least that's what I've heard from friends who are attempting to get involved in police... in many areas (with low levels of violent crime), a high school diploma is no longer enough to make the cut. I think that the fact that departments are able to be picky would also impact the amount of corruption...

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Tully Mars

Wow, I haven't heard of anyone being hired in law enforcement without at least a BA/BS since the early 90's. Maybe at some very small dept. in the middle of nowhere. But every hiring committee or interview process I can remember being involved in the first step was to send a letter thanking all the people who applied sans degree. The letter is usually something about "Thanks, but we are currently looking for people with either more experience or education. Please feel free to apply again in the future." The second step is a background check. If you have too many or serious traffic violations you can usually forget it and need to find another occupation. Anything more then traffic problems, find another field. That can include simply being arrested, even if you didn't do whatever you were arrested for and the charges were dropped. I remember the Sheriff in one county wanting to hire a young man, HS local football hero, and he couldn't because the kid had been arrested on a drug charge that later turned out to be bogus. The file was sent to the county manager/attorney and the hire was denied. I have no idea what the kid ended up doing with his Criminal justice degree, just never heard. He could be working for a dept. right now. Which would be fine with me, but it shows you how hard, least in the area I worked, it can be to over come what may seem like small problems when applying for work in LE.

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Nepenthes

Police officer is a profession that is subject to same percentage of corrupt/unethical people as the general population for a region. Some egions will be worse off than others. The Internal Affairs department is a tool that helps to police the police to reduce the number of "crooked cops."

I think the "few bad apples" have tarnished the image of law enforcement to a lot of people.

Zeraph

I know in my area (Az) that at least the city I know takes high school grads, not only that but you can have done drugs so long as its not more than 3 times since you turned 21. (a lot I know took steroids)

Tully Mars

That's the requirement or they actually hire them? Usually our listed job requirements didn't say anything about a BA/BS and it never mentioned anything but "no felonies." But I can't ever remember hiring one person without a degree.

And are these very small depts?

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Zeraph

Medium size. Definitely not a small town.

They still hire them without degrees. From what I could tell going through the process (I tried out for it, which is how I know so much) they cared mostly for physical fitness.

And so long as you were under 21 when you did the drugs they don't care. Over 21 you can only have done drugs 3 times. Other than that they don't care about your drug history.

Other than that its the same. No felonies, etc.

Tully Mars

Well that's certainly not the way most of Oregon is doing it. Maybe in a few small towns/counties in the rural (eastern side?) of the state. But overall, no you need a degree and you can't have any BS on your record. I remember when I was in school at Western Oregon State there was a big notice on the bulletin board in the Criminal Justice Dept. stating "If you have anything on your record and are a Criminal Justice major- seek another major." It was worded more nicely but it was worded pretty strongly too. I guess, of course, things could have changed. Don't know.

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Zeraph

All states are different. Even cities are different. Each city has different requirements.

Tully Mars

Concur. Some one told me in a several southern states a GED was acceptable as recently as 2005. Might still be in paces. Wouldn't want to work there, probably be like a real life Reno 911.

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Zeraph

My uncle (retired) was a cop and got quit high on the food chain. He was in a small town for 25ish years. He said that they used to play pranks just like in the beginning of Super Troopers
Super Troopers (2001) - IMDb
(also a very funny movie..)

monkeysugar

Given that the exhaustive hiring process used by pretty much...everywhere I know of, I would say a lot less than you think. People talk/brag/talk out of their asses in general but I would venture that the current reality is much different from the stories you've been hearing. Does it still happen? Without a doubt. Is it on an epidemic level? I highly doubt it.

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dksuddeth

Internal Affairs has been filled with cops that used to walk the streets, therefore they do just as much covering up and justifying illegal and criminal conduct as do the police unions.

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Tully Mars

I disagree with that. From my experience IA or simply "personnel dept," as they are sometime called, are often filled with people sick and tried of watching cops behave as bad or worse then the people they're trying to lock-up. Of the 6-7 I've known personally tracking down a dirty cop and hanging him/her out to dry gave them a raging hard on.

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MSD

It depends on the overall level of corruption in the department. In my town, I'd trust any cop until they gave me a reason not to. Down near work in Stamford plus Greenwich, Darien, and Norwalk, I give them a wide berth and do my best to make sure they have no reason to interact with me.

edit: not going to post the story, the version I heard from a cop doesn't match the official story and I don't want to risk getting dragged into shit if the wrong person reads this since I haven't exactly made my identity a secret.