On the Underwear Bomber - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Redlemon · 01-07-2010, 06:04 AM

I've considered this thread since about one day after the Underwear Bomber tried to blow up that plane on Christmas. I couldn't really put the right words around it. Fortunately, I found this blogpost to explain it for me:

Quote:

I keep hearing this even described as a failed terrorist attack on an airplane. But was it really? I keep hearing about how the system failed, but did it really? Think about it. First, what is the major goal of terrorism? It is not to bring down airplanes. It is not to destroy the West. It is, pure and simple, to create terror in people. Why? Because when people are afraid they overreact. And this includes most of us, yourself included.

If the intent of al Qaeda in this latest instance was to bring down an airplane, then it failed. But if its intent was to create fear and overreaction, then it succeeded Personally, I think it was the latter. It is quite possible (in fact I think probable) that the people who planned this event, and used the young man from Nigeria as a tool, were aware that due to security measures in place, there was no way they could actually get a bomb through that would actually work. The detonation equipment needed would have been detected. The same applies, by the way, to the shoe bomber.

Again, think about it. If you wanted to blow up a plane, would you attempt it from your seat, where somebody could quite possibly stop you? No, you would go to the washroom where you could set off the bomb without disruption.

Of course, if it failed to go off, then people wouldn't necessarily know what you were trying to do. Therefore you have to make sure it is one in the open, or the very failure is perceived as a terrorist attack. The fear result is the same whether or not the bomb goes off.

In addition to the torture lovers advocating a return to waterboarding, the administration sets up more stringent guidelines for air travel (most of which are unlikely to be effective at all) and other people call for the resignation of the head of DHS. In other words, the response is what al Qaeda and other terrorist groups want.

Al Qaeda has lost a lot of its prestige and influence in the Muslim world. They need something to get it back. How better than to do something that creates a reaction on the part of the US or Great Britain that shows just how bad we are and how we are so anti-Islam. After 9/11, recruiting by al Qaeda suffered until we invaded Iraq. That alone increased recruitment. Then when our torture policies became evident, it increased more. Lately, however, it has declined again. If we as a nation respond poorly to this "successful" attack, then they will achieve all their goals.

I've put this thread in Paranoia, because I want you to tell me why I'm just being paranoid for thinking this way.

Cimarron29414 · 01-07-2010, 08:39 AM

So we have a guy:

who is on a terror watch list
whose father calls the embassy and tells them his son went full retard
who buys a $2000, one-way ticket with cash
who flies on an expired/retracted visa
who has no checked luggage
whose passport has stamps to Yemen and perhaps other places of interest

and we can't catch this guy?!?!?!? What does my $50B/year Department of Homeland security protect me from, if it can't catch this knucklehead?

On topic, mission accomplished. The terror was achieved. No paranoia, it's justified fear - if they can't catch this guy...you aren't safe up there.

blahblah454 · 01-07-2010, 08:43 AM

Ever stop to think that maybe its these airport security companies are planting these bombs? More business baby!

But seriously, I think that everyone is highly overreacting to all of this. Whats to stop terrorists from getting on a crowded subway in America with a bomb and blowing up a train, or planting bombs on a bridge and detonating them during rush hour? Or to bring bombs into a movie theater on opening night or a busy Friday night and taking out as many people as possible? Why are airplanes such a giant threat?

fresnelly · 01-07-2010, 08:51 AM

I think it's only a matter of time before all airline passengers will be forced to be sedated while on board; like in Stephen King's short story The Jaunt.

Come to think of it, that might not be so bad.

powerclown · 01-07-2010, 08:52 AM

Thats not so far-fetched. Slovenia recently 'tested' out their airport security by planting exposive material in the luggage of 9 unsuspecting travelers...8 were caught, one wasn't. story link

inBOIL · 01-07-2010, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblah454

But seriously, I think that everyone is highly overreacting to all of this. Whats to stop terrorists from getting on a crowded subway in America with a bomb and blowing up a train, or planting bombs on a bridge and detonating them during rush hour? Or to bring bombs into a movie theater on opening night or a busy Friday night and taking out as many people as possible? Why are airplanes such a giant threat?

Exactly. Anyone with average or better intelligence and access to a library can figure out how to kill a large number of people with minimal expense, especially if they're willing to die in the process. Just look at the guy who drove his car through a farmers' market. A senile old man killed a bunch of people without even trying, and the only equipment he used was a car.

Either these terrorists are accomplishing exactly what they want to, or they aren't very bright.

dlish · 01-07-2010, 09:31 AM

how many people are going to freak out with a car plowing into an open market? a handful? 10, 20? 100? then its forgotten.

why not create terror the world over? that seems to be the tactic. everytime you get on a flight everybody asks themselves whether some bastard has something hidden in his asshole. you'll notice that the jihadists or martyrs in waiting will confirm that their intention is to inject and strike fear into the hearts of the infidels.

dippin · 01-07-2010, 09:57 AM

One interesting thing is that as these security measures become more and more strict, the unsafest place to be, and the most vulnerable place to be, is the security line. In a busy day, the security line has more people in a tight space than most flights.

inBOIL · 01-07-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlish

how many people are going to freak out with a car plowing into an open market? a handful? 10, 20? 100? then its forgotten.

why not create terror the world over? that seems to be the tactic. everytime you get on a flight everybody asks themselves whether some bastard has something hidden in his asshole. you'll notice that the jihadists or martyrs in waiting will confirm that their intention is to inject and strike fear into the hearts of the infidels.

The reason people didn't freak out is that is was a freak accident, not a deliberate act of terror. Imagine if it had been a terror attack; no market is safe, no sidewalk is safe, anyone on the road could be a terrorist waiting to run you down. The fear lies in our perception of the event, which would be radically different if terrorism were involved.

It's all marketing. The terrorists have us afraid when we fly, and there's no reason they can't extend that fear to other areas of life, while simultaneously racking up a higher body count for less effort.

Baraka_Guru · 01-07-2010, 12:14 PM

Air traffic is a huge factor in business both directly and indirectly, and it's international. If you make it so people are afraid to fly, then you've disrupted one heck of a lot.

blahblah454 · 01-07-2010, 03:33 PM

Do you know anyone that is actually scared to fly?

Redlemon · 01-08-2010, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblah454

Do you know anyone that is actually scared to fly?

I haven't flown in two years, but that's just coincidence. I'm flying to the Caribbean next month, and I'm really not looking forward to it. Not because of the threat of terrorism; because of the extreme inconvenience combined with what appears to be a significant drop in airlines giving a damn.

ASU2003 · 01-09-2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blahblah454

Ever stop to think that maybe its these airport security companies are planting these bombs? More business baby!

Or it's the government agencies that need to justify their existence and larger budgets next year.

Or it could be the right-wing conspiracy brainwashing this guy, or helping his family, in order to make Obama look weak on terrorism.

pointbock69 · 01-12-2010, 09:33 PM

it is damn near impossible to stop everything, I just hope they can continue to difuse the ones that get through...

IraGarcia · 01-11-2011, 02:25 PM

The logistics of it is over-the-top if you ask me. I mean an underwear bomber? That's not the sort of package that men's underwear is meant to protect.

01-07-2010, 08:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	So we have a guy: who is on a terror watch list whose father calls the embassy and tells them his son went full retard who buys a $2000, one-way ticket with cash who flies on an expired/retracted visa who has no checked luggage whose passport has stamps to Yemen and perhaps other places of interest and we can't catch this guy?!?!?!? What does my $50B/year Department of Homeland security protect me from, if it can't catch this knucklehead? On topic, mission accomplished. The terror was achieved. No paranoia, it's justified fear - if they can't catch this guy...you aren't safe up there. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

01-07-2010, 08:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	I think it's only a matter of time before all airline passengers will be forced to be sedated while on board; like in Stephen King's short story The Jaunt. Come to think of it, that might not be so bad. __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

01-07-2010, 09:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	how many people are going to freak out with a car plowing into an open market? a handful? 10, 20? 100? then its forgotten. why not create terror the world over? that seems to be the tactic. everytime you get on a flight everybody asks themselves whether some bastard has something hidden in his asshole. you'll notice that the jihadists or martyrs in waiting will confirm that their intention is to inject and strike fear into the hearts of the infidels. __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

01-07-2010, 12:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Air traffic is a huge factor in business both directly and indirectly, and it's international. If you make it so people are afraid to fly, then you've disrupted one heck of a lot. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

01-07-2010, 08:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	Ever stop to think that maybe its these airport security companies are planting these bombs? More business baby! But seriously, I think that everyone is highly overreacting to all of this. Whats to stop terrorists from getting on a crowded subway in America with a bomb and blowing up a train, or planting bombs on a bridge and detonating them during rush hour? Or to bring bombs into a movie theater on opening night or a busy Friday night and taking out as many people as possible? Why are airplanes such a giant threat?

01-07-2010, 08:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
powerclown Junkie Location: Detroit, MI	Thats not so far-fetched. Slovenia recently 'tested' out their airport security by planting exposive material in the luggage of 9 unsuspecting travelers...8 were caught, one wasn't. story link

01-07-2010, 09:57 AM	#8 (permalink)
dippin Crazy, indeed Location: the ether	One interesting thing is that as these security measures become more and more strict, the unsafest place to be, and the most vulnerable place to be, is the security line. In a busy day, the security line has more people in a tight space than most flights.

01-07-2010, 03:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	Do you know anyone that is actually scared to fly?

01-12-2010, 09:33 PM	#14 (permalink)
pointbock69 Registered User Location: Dallas, TX	it is damn near impossible to stop everything, I just hope they can continue to difuse the ones that get through...

01-11-2011, 02:25 PM	#15 (permalink)
IraGarcia Upright	The logistics of it is over-the-top if you ask me. I mean an underwear bomber? That's not the sort of package that men's underwear is meant to protect.