taog

I got the idea to post this thread last night when i was at a party. I overheard some guy talking about the moon landing and the whole fox thing that they aired saying that the landing didn't happen and all that stuff. I was asonished to hear what was being said. I have never seen this fox broadcast, but i have read a little bit about it.

I was just wondering what peoples opinions were on this topic. Do you think that man did land on the moon in 69, or was it just a scam pulled off by nasa to beat the russians.

I'll post my thoughts later. I just want to see what people think, before i go any further.

Thanks.

rogue49

There are people who think the Earth is still flat too.
duh.

Jeff

I don't believe they landed on the moon in '72. They definately did in '69 though.

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Phaenx

Don't ask Buzz Aldren about it, he'll punch you right in your face, because he's a god damn ninja.

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juanvaldes

all I have to say is when your wasted, the fox broadcast makes a good case.

JStrider

i think we did land on the moon...

if we hadnt i think there would be a lot more people saying we hadnt... ive only heard a very few people saying that we havnt...

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Stare At The Sun

im pretty sure we did, only one way to make sure though, and that is to go to the moon yourself, and look...

SecretMethod70

Sometimes I see/read/hear things that make me think we should start executing people for stupidity.

Thinking we didn't land on the moon is one of those things.

Hope I haven't offended anyone, but I'm pretty sure people at TFP are of a higher caliber of intelligence than those who would think it was a hoax.

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Le temps détruit tout

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SiN

heh.

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World's King

I think it was Disney.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

KillerYoda

We better have landed on the moon, or I'm gonna be pissed, cause my baseball autographed by Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong will be just a ball with two dudes' name on it, as opposed to two astronauts' names on it. In case you're curious, they used to give them out for free at Astros games occassionally.

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boredjerk

Disney's head is on ice.

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Hydralisk

what the special did was take the evidence they had used to prove they went to the moon, and pointed out flaws.

In some pictures they had the shadows were going in different directions, when the only light source was supposed to be the sun.

There are also some iffy things found in the reflections of the peoples helmets.

miked10270

Yeah, the "Lunar Sceptics" claim that they can see inappropriate reflections in the astronauts visors. Then again, the Virgin Mary makes frequent appearances on Cheesits and various vegetables all over the world, statues of Buddha start to weep milk (strangely this happens just after they've been washed with milk)... It's called seeing what you want to believe and some people seem to "need" to see a conspiracy behind every achievement.

Personally, I'm 99.999...% SURE that they did go. OK, I've heard all the arguments about the radiation exposure once they'd leave the protection of Earths magnetic field etc..., but on the other hand I've also heard of the frank and outright anger of the Apollo crews when it's suggested that the lunar missions were faked.

Strangely no-one ever suggests that Apollo VIII (I think - the one that orbited the Moon) was fake. In that one the crew did everything except actually land.

Anyway, It'll be resolved to most people's satisfaction in the next couple of years - I understand that the Japanese are building a telescope with sufficient resolution to pick out footprints on the lunar surface... But of course the Lunar Sceptice will simply shout "Fake" and "Liars" regardless of the evidence & testimony.

Mike.

KillerYoda

I read (or heard) somewhere a while back that the Japanese were going to attempt to land on the moon. I guess that can be the final 100% proof.

Unless of course they fake it.

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Peetster

Brilliant.

mtsgsd

I've seen a site that tries to claim it was all a hoax. I have to admit there are a lot of pics that are just plain wrong. I still believe they were there for at least some of it.

BTW, no one has mentioned that NASA actually has admitted to faking some still and movie shots. They say that it was necessary for the public because the originals were too poor a quality to be worth much. Hmmm.

Liquor Dealer

Some might call me naive and perhaps stupid but I believe in my government and I believe what they say - knowing full well that at times they do not tell me everything - for which I am greatful and at times, it may err on its facts. I do not believe that the government intentionally attempts to deceive the people of the United States.

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miked10270

Purely from a sense of fairness...

http://batesmotel.8m.com/

and

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast23feb_2.htm

absorbentishe

I am sure we did. If you look at anything long enough, you will be able to make something out of nothing. If any one wants to find discrepancies, then they will eventually.

Cynthetiq

you can also check out Phil Plait's BadAstronomy.com

Fox TV and the Apollo Moon Hoax
(February 13, 2001)



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On Thursday, February 15th 2001 (and replayed on March 19), the Fox TV network aired a program called ``Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon?'', hosted by X-Files actor Mitch Pileggi. The program was an hour long, and featured interviews with a series of people who believe that NASA faked the Apollo Moon landings in the 1960s and 1970s. The biggest voice in this is Bill Kaysing, who claims to have all sorts of hoax evidence, including pictures taken by the astronauts, engineering details, discussions of physics and even some testimony by astronauts themselves. The program's conclusion was that the whole thing was faked in the Nevada desert (in Area 51, of course!). According to them, NASA did not have the technical capability of going to the Moon, but pressure due to the Cold War with the Soviet Union forced them to fake it.

Sound ridiculous? Of course it does! It is. So let me get this straight right from the start: this program is an hour long piece of junk.

From the very first moment to the very last, the program is loaded with bad thinking, ridiculous suppositions and utterly wrong science. I was able to get a copy of the show in advance, and although I was expecting it to be bad, I was still surprised and how awful it was. I took four pages of notes. I won't subject you to all of that here; it would take hours to write. I'll only go over some of the major points of the show, and explain briefly why they are wrong. In the near future, hopefully by the end of the summer, I will have a much more detailed series of pages taking on each of the points made by the Hoax Believers (whom I will call HBs).

So let's take a look at the ``evidence'' brought out by the show. To make this easier, below is a table with links to the specific arguments.


Disclaimer 20% believe in the hoax? The Capricorn 1 tie-in
No stars in pictures No blast crater Dust around the lander
Deep, dark shadows Non-parallel shadows Identical backgrounds
More identical backgrounds Lander unable to balance itself No flames from lunar launch
Astronauts footage shot in slow-motion The waving flag Why was every picture perfect?
Missing crosshairs in photos The deadly radiation of space Did NASA murder its astronauts?
CONCLUSION LINKS FALLOUT



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Bad: Right at the beginning, they have a disclaimer:

The following program deals with a controversial subject. The theories expressed are not the only possible explanation. Viewers are invited to make a judgment based on all available information.
Good: The last thing the writers of this program want the viewers to do is make an informed decision. If they did, they would have given equal time to both sides of this controversy. Instead, the vast majority of the time is given to the HBs, with only scattered (and very vague) dismissive statements by skeptics. So the available information is really only what they tell you. Of course, there are a lot of websites talking about this. I have a list of them on my own site.



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Bad: The show claims that 20% of Americans have doubts that we went to the Moon.

Good: That number is a bit misleading. A 1999 Gallup poll showed it was more like 6%, a number which agrees with a poll taken in 1995 by Time/CNN. The Gallup website also says:

Although, if taken literally, 6% translates into millions of individuals, it is not unusual to find about that many people in the typical poll agreeing with almost any question that is asked of them -- so the best interpretation is that this particular conspiracy theory is not widespread.
It also depends on what you mean by ``doubts''. Does that mean someone who truly doesn't believe man ever went to the Moon, or just that it's remotely possible that NASA faked it? Those are very different things. Not only does the program not say, but they don't say where they found the statistic they quote either.

read the rest...

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taog

sorry... 69



anyway.. the reason why i posted this is because the guy at the party believed that the moon landing was a hoax... i couldn't believe that people would actually think this!!!

imagine you are Buzz Aldrin or Neil Armstrong and you heard that some people think the moon landing was fake. I would want to shoot someone. That would piss me off so much. Then some of these people supporting the hoax said that nasa actually killed people who were going to let this whole scam get out or some shit like that.

It just boggles my mind that some people actually believe this crap.

I was actually arguing for the moon landing at this party and i ended up coming up with some pretty good common sense arguments that are basically explained the exact same way on this page.. http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

Basically the best argument you can come up with is.. have you been on the moon? Have any of these people that are creating these bullshit hoax stories been on the moon? It's an alien world to us and physics on the moon isn't the same as it is on earth. Things work very differently.

Another thing to support the landing on the moon was the lunar vehicle (i don't remember the name of it). If you watch the video of this thing you will notice that the pieces of dust and sand that fly off the wheels fly off in a perfect parabolic arc. Can we do this on earth? Sure, if you had billions of dollars to create a huge vaccuum for that thing. It would have had to be way more technologically advanced than what they used to go to the moon. We still can't build a vacuum that big. We just dont' have the technology to do it right now!

Anyway.. if someone reads this and believes that the moon landing was a hoax, please do some research and come up to a conclusion on your own. I provided a link to a lot of answers to the hoax arguments and the last poster provided a similar link, and also a link to a site that argues that it is a hoax.

Shokan

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

I saw the show, and was conviced for the longest time. Then I looked into it. I came across that website, read the entire document, and changed my mind. The Fox show was such trash, filled with really bad science.

I emplor you to read that link.

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cchris

I believe they landed.

But it took a few goes to get it right.

VIDEO LINK

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dimbulb

arghs....
FOX is trash...

and YES, they did land on the moon. You would think that the Soviets would have made a much bigger fuss if we had faked our landing.

I'm quite frustrated at all the bad science that's on TV nowadays, and why even normally respectable TV stations choose to give such programs (fake moon landings, huge government coverups) so much attention.

The_Dude

i saw that fox broadcast and i'm one of those skeptics now.

the thing that got me was that there was radiation or some shit between earth and the moon.

and the thin panels on the craft could not protect the astronauts. that's why the russians didnt do it.

anyway, i voted prolly not, but maybe. i give it the benefit of the doubt.

i heard that the jap's are sending an unmanned craft around the moon and it'll pass the place where the US craft landed.

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platypus

*shakes head in disbelief*

Wut's that? You got a bridge to sell me? Here, hold my turnips.

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Phaenx

We know exactly what Buzz would do. He punched a guy in the face for telling him to put his hand on a bible and swear he never went to the moon. And that guy got punched for good reason, you go through the most terrifying experience in your life which turns out to be one of the greatest acheivements of mankind and some tard claims it never happened.

At least we can rest easy in the knowledge these people were beat up in school, and are continually beat up as adults.

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billege

The fact that the question is asked is sufficient to weaken my faith in humanity.

Seriously, I am deeply distrubed when I see this question.

This race of backwards-ass apes-with-little-hair is never going to make much progress. It really bothers me.

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Sparhawk

That is #$%@ing cool!!!

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The Atomic Boy

I find it funny the bringer of the news that we didn't land on the moon is the Fox network. Known for their prestige and reliability. If we didn't land on the moon I'm sure Russia would have at least had an inkling this way true and would then spread the news to unroot our morale as a nation.

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Sun Tzu

When I first saw the fox special it raised my eyebrows; but reading the debunking convinced me otherwise. Although I dont think the physics explanation behind the lack of having a crater sums that up too well. Im also going to assume that the pictures they showed of the moon surface maps that were identical to the section of Area 51 known as the moon are fabricated.

One thing that was never mentioned is how could the view of Earth rising have been faked? Special Efx, it doesnt appear so.

In any event Japan is going to be launching an unmanned flight to the moon for research next year. They will be flying directly over where the flag. moon lander, landing module are (or should be) this will silence allot of people.

Now do a poll on whether I thought Oswald shot Kennedy.

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TwistedFate

I think we did.

BTW, Buzz and Neil were astronauts whether or not they actually landed on the moon, that much would still be true.

Troublebot

At first I thought this was kinda funny and was going to reply with some lame Sam Waterston/O.J. Simpson joke, but having read the Badastronomy website, I'm getting pissed off.

From Badastronomy:

"Very, very Bad: Kaysing says that the Apollo 1 fire that killed Roger Chaffee, Ed White and Gus Grissom was no accident. Grissom was ready to talk to the press about the Moon hoax, so NASA killed him. Kaysing says NASA also killed other people who were about to blow the whistle as well.

This is so disgusting I have a hard time writing a coherent reply. Kaysing has no grasp of basic physics, photography or even common sense, but he accuses NASA of killing people to shut them up. That is a particularly loathsome accusation. "

To suggest that NASA killed three astronauts and to sully the reputations of brave men like Neil Armstrong, Jim Lovell, Buzz Aldren and the numerous other guys that made it to the moon, makes me physically sick.

Catch a clue non-believers, and then shut the fuck up.

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KillerYoda

Ehh, but not as cool of astronauts. Then again, they're not baseball players either, yet their name is on a baseball. The mysteries never cease.

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crow_daw

Best point I've heard. Damn straight they would. I'm surprised that didn't do it anyway.

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KWSN

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Someone's been watching the Daily Show too...

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obsvr

Ha. Yea, I saw the fox show a while back, and while I found a few of their points interesting, I still believe we landed on the moon. One thing that I thought was hilarious, if I am remembering it correctly, is they tried to have a NASA Public Relations person try to refute these claims. Come on, listenting to some PR person trying to scientifically refute their false claims would make anyone think NASA is up to no good.

But the badastronomy.com like someone posted earlier lays the whole thing out. Bad science on the part of fox.

AppleSauceMcGee

why would there be any reason to fake, i definatly believe it happened....

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papermachesatan

Don't you mean China?