Secret Christian Conspiracy? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

The_Dude · 04-21-2003, 01:27 PM

Quote:

WASHINGTON - Six members of Congress live in a $1.1 million Capitol Hill town house that is subsidized by a secretive religious organization, tax records show

The lawmakers, all Christians, pay low rent to live in the stately red brick, three-story house on C Street, two blocks from the Capitol. It is maintained by a group alternately known as the "Fellowship" and the "Foundation" and brings together world leaders and elected officials through religion.

The Fellowship hosts receptions, luncheons and prayer meetings on the first two floors of the house, which is registered with the Internal Revenue Service (news - web sites) as a church.

The six lawmakers — Reps. Zach Wamp, R-Tenn.; Bart Stupak, D-Mich.; Jim DeMint, R-S.C.; Mike Doyle, D-Pa.; and Sens. John Ensign, R-Nev. and Sam Brownback, R-Kan. — live in private rooms upstairs.

Rent is $600 a month, DeMint said.

"Our goal is singular — and that is to hope that we can assist them in better understandings of the teachings of Christ, and applying it to their jobs," said Richard Carver, a member of the Fellowship's board of directors who served as an assistant secretary of the Air Force during the Reagan administration.

The house, valued at $1.1 million, is owned by the C Street Center, a sister organization of the Fellowship. It received more than $145,000 in Fellowship grants between 1997 and 2000, according to IRS records — including $96,400 in 1998 for reducing debt.

Its tenants dine together once a week to discuss religion in their daily lives.

"We do have a Bible study," said DeMint, a Presbyterian who asked to move into the house less than a year ago when there was a vacancy. "Somebody'll share a verse or a thought, but mostly it's more of an accountability group to talk about things that are going on in our lives, and how we're dealing with them."

Few in the Fellowship are willing to talk about its mission.

It organizes the annual National Prayer Breakfast attended by the president, members of Congress and dignitaries from around the world. The group leaves its name off the program, even though it spent $924,373 to host the event in 2001, bringing in $606,292 in proceeds, according to the most recent available IRS records, and pays travel expenses for foreign officials to attend.

Doyle, a Catholic from Pittsburgh who moved to C Street about six years ago, got involved with the Fellowship when he began attending weekly prayer breakfasts in the Capitol as a freshman lawmaker in 1995.

Since then, Doyle has helped organize Fellowship-sponsored youth leadership seminars. He was president of the House Prayer Breakfast in 2000.

"My living arrangements are totally appropriate and within the House rules," said Doyle. "There's no direct correlation between the tenants and the Foundation — there are tenants who have absolutely zero involvement, and some do. And there's no benefit to live there, other than the fact that it's convenient."

Other than Doyle and DeMint, current and former lawmakers who have lived in the C Street house refused to comment. "We feel like it's nobody's business but our own," said former Rep. Steve Largent (news, bio, voting record), R-Okla., who lived there before leaving Congress to run unsuccessfully for governor in his home state last year.

That secrecy is unsettling to the Rev. Barry Lynn, a United Church of Christ minister who heads watchdog group Americans United for the Separation of Church and State.

"What concerns people is when you mix religion, political power, and secrecy," Lynn said. "Members of official Washington should always be open and direct about the groups they choose to join, just to dispel any concerns that there's an inappropriate or unconscious agenda in these groups."

Lawmakers living under religion's roof is not necessarily problematic, Lynn said, "as long as there are no sweetheart deals that are being made that could trade low rent for access."

The C Street house is not the only religious-run organization that rents to lawmakers.

The United Methodist Church, for example, leases living quarters to lawmakers at its headquarters at 110 Maryland Avenue in northeast Washington, directly across the street from the Supreme Court and the Capitol. Monthly rent for a one-bedroom apartment starts at $960.

"We consider it part of our mission in the ministry to provide housing for members of Congress," said Jim Winkler, a lobbyist for the church. "There's opportunities for you to talk to them. But we don't approach them and ask for their support for anything."

While the Fellowship wants leaders to use Christ's teachings in their daily work, Carver said the group does not seek to improperly influence its C Street tenants.

"We have no issue in legislation before the Congress, and nor would we," Carver said. "And the idea that we would have any quid-pro-quo is really impossible because there's no quid that we're asking for."

Other than the weekly Bible study dinner, DeMint does not feel like he lives in a religious atmosphere, and said he knows very little about the Fellowship.

"We have a lot of discussions and things like that, but if they want to have influence, they're sure not getting their money's worth," he said.

what the heck is going on?

are they trying to take over the world or something?

i'm scared........

Lebell · 04-21-2003, 02:23 PM

OMG!

Lawmakers being....RELIGIOUS!!!

Better go HERE before they come for YOU!

MrSmashy · 04-21-2003, 02:43 PM

Meh. Its just a very strong lobby as far as we know, although it does reek of the kind of secrative old boys club kind of political influence that is less than open and in the spirit of American democracy.

I distrust it myself, because I disagree with its politics. Organized religion has done so much good, and so much more evil, on this planet...unfortunately we can't seem to shake it.

ARTelevision · 04-21-2003, 02:47 PM

too bad about religion.
mixing politics and religion is medieval.
one of these days we'll end the preferential treatment and start taxing religious property and treat religious orgs like the (nasty) businesses they are.

The_Dude · 04-21-2003, 03:05 PM

these dudes seem to be really into this deal.

looks cult-ish

Macheath · 04-21-2003, 04:55 PM

I'm sure they've been buzzing around Washington since the beginning.

All of the real nutcase evangelicals are in Iraq as we speak - the "second wave" as it were.

Fucking Franklin Graham...

The_Dude · 04-21-2003, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zmiley
Yeah, that ranks right up there with the Zionists and the Illuminati.

Watch out, Dude! They're comin' to get you. Rowrrr!

dont scare me like that

Gonzonia · 04-21-2003, 05:16 PM

The only scary part about this is that it's legal.

It's essentially a lobbying effort of the the christian organization that runs the place. They can no longer just hand money over to the politicians so they find another creative way to do it.

HunterDevourer · 04-21-2003, 08:38 PM

They need to keep their influence and power somehow.

Lebell · 04-21-2003, 08:46 PM

There is nothing wrong with people staying in religious houses. It happens all over America. I've stayed at many myself. There are no 'secret ceremonies' or meetings.

And there is nothing wrong with a politician living in one in fellowship with other Christians.

Sheesh.

duckduck · 04-21-2003, 09:01 PM

Source?

maximusveritas · 04-21-2003, 09:47 PM

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/11...s_group+.shtml

Google is Your Friend.
I don't really see anything wrong with this personally, but its always disaster when you mix religion with politics. That danger is very real and no tin foil hat can protect you from it.

frenik · 04-22-2003, 03:26 AM

Very scary! Another thing to worry about... how many politicians have attended (*gasp*) Catholic schools?!? Even worse, how many politicians' parents were of any specific religion?!? How many of them attend church weekly? Surely all of these things would influence their policies, which is a terrible thing.

This is only improper if those people use their collective influence to help each other out, which this article doesn't suggest. This is simply a case of members of a religion living with other members of their religion.

If their voting records are similar, I'll say it's not right, but until then, it's a witch hunt in my eyes.

ARTelevision · 04-22-2003, 04:03 AM

Lebell, your voice is always appreciated.
When it comes to religion, I'm so rabidly anti-religious that I answer in an across-the-board fashion every chance I get. It's a bias. In fact, religious issues are typically based in personal bias.
As always, everyone's posts could start with "IMO".

Lebell · 04-22-2003, 08:17 AM

Art,

I can understand where you are coming from, and believe it or not, I do understand the other posters.

But what I think is missing is the critical distinction between Christianity that is quietly practiced by millions of spiritual Americans and the 'Christianity' that is preached by Falwell, Robertson, et.al. as a political force.

If I may borrow a word, I am rabidly anti-fundamentalist, to the point where I can barely listen to the above individuals. But on the flip, some of my best, most worthwhile times have been spent in quiet community with other Christians in religious houses, both in San Francisco and in various places in Colorado.

To me they are 'pearls of great price' whose value goes beyond dollars.

If this particular house is just a lobbying tool by the moral majority, then I will also denounce it, but that isn't what the article says or implies.

4thTimeLucky · 04-22-2003, 11:27 AM

It's one thing for politicians to be in bed with lobbyists, but for the politicians to be in the lobbyist's bed - that's just scarey.

Nad Adam · 04-22-2003, 11:59 AM

The one place where the communists had the right idea was their stance on religion.

The_Dude · 04-22-2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nad Adam
The one place where the communists had the right idea was their stance on religion.

and women's rights

MSD · 04-22-2003, 02:27 PM

I see it as another way for lobbyists to get closer to our lawmakers. If religion leads to someone being a good person and doing good things, that's fine with me. If religious influence leads to cessation of abortion rights, removal of real sex-ed in our schools, and harmful foreign policy, then it should be kicked the hell out of Washington. I don't have a problem with it, but it has to be kept in check, just like other groups. Unfortunately, religion hasn't done much of anything good that I can see in recent times.

boatin · 04-22-2003, 09:18 PM

I have no problem with influence - it is impossible to escape. To pretend otherwise seems foolish to me.

Equally foolish is this:

Quote:

"We consider it part of our mission in the ministry to provide housing for members of Congress," said Jim Winkler, a lobbyist for the church. "There's opportunities for you to talk to them. But we don't approach them and ask for their support for anything."

Being appalled that people peddle influence is as bad as claiming you are not doing it. Geez.

f00sion · 04-22-2003, 11:46 PM

Its an interesting argument about them just continuing their spiritual life etc, etc, etc and I almost was ok with it... but the guy in the article says stuff like this: "Our goal is singular — and that is to hope that we can assist them in better understandings of the teachings of Christ, and applying it to their jobs," and it just sounds so suspicious, we need less christ in congress! Just think how it would be if the organization behind it was a big oil company or something instead of a church.

KillerYoda · 04-23-2003, 12:15 AM

I always thought it was supposed to be either a Jewish conspiracy or Freemasons. Weird.

Nad Adam · 04-23-2003, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude
and women's rights

yeah, how could I forget...

rekinom · 04-23-2003, 04:22 AM

Post removed.

maximusveritas · 04-23-2003, 06:49 AM

ok, after reading this article from Harper's

http://www.harpers.org/online/jesus_...hing.php3?pg=1

I've changed my mind. There is definitely something wrong with this. It's long, but very interesting.

rekinom · 04-23-2003, 10:57 AM

Post removed.

The_Dude · 04-23-2003, 01:36 PM

scary stuff

boatin · 04-23-2003, 09:14 PM

je-sus...

That article is scary. A long read, but worth it, in a sick way. Gotta love those groups that admire Hitler...

The ends justify the means, right?

Easytiger · 04-23-2003, 09:14 PM

Religion is very important to a lot of people. If everybody agreed on religion, it would have a major place in politics.
This being the REAL world, however, I think we would be better of if politics and religion were seperate entities.

As far as the conspiracy goes, well, the older I get the more I think that nobody has the energy or commitment to run a conspiracy of global proportions. But the idea makes for great computer games.

The_Dude · 04-24-2003, 02:03 PM

i mean they're bringing world leaders for a dinner.

seems very much like they're taking over the world

BoCo · 04-24-2003, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nad Adam
The one place where the communists had the right idea was their stance on religion.

The communists have never had anything right, especially dictating what people should believe. You should be ashamed of yourself for ever writing that.

guthmund · 04-25-2003, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The_Dude

seems very much like they're taking over the world

In all honesty, I don't think they ever relinquished control.

Oh my god....religious men in charge of the world......that would change......nothing. Nothing at all. *gasp

04-21-2003, 02:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	OMG! Lawmakers being....RELIGIOUS!!! Better go HERE before they come for YOU! __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

04-21-2003, 02:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	too bad about religion. mixing politics and religion is medieval. one of these days we'll end the preferential treatment and start taxing religious property and treat religious orgs like the (nasty) businesses they are. __________________ create evolution

04-21-2003, 03:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	these dudes seem to be really into this deal. looks cult-ish __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

04-21-2003, 08:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
HunterDevourer Insane Location: Sydney - Australia	They need to keep their influence and power somehow. __________________ Viva La Muerte

04-21-2003, 08:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	There is nothing wrong with people staying in religious houses. It happens all over America. I've stayed at many myself. There are no 'secret ceremonies' or meetings. And there is nothing wrong with a politician living in one in fellowship with other Christians. Sheesh. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

04-21-2003, 02:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
MrSmashy Crazy Location: Soviet Canukistan	Meh. Its just a very strong lobby as far as we know, although it does reek of the kind of secrative old boys club kind of political influence that is less than open and in the spirit of American democracy. I distrust it myself, because I disagree with its politics. Organized religion has done so much good, and so much more evil, on this planet...unfortunately we can't seem to shake it.

04-21-2003, 04:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	I'm sure they've been buzzing around Washington since the beginning. All of the real nutcase evangelicals are in Iraq as we speak - the "second wave" as it were. Fucking Franklin Graham...

04-21-2003, 05:16 PM	#8 (permalink)
Gonzonia Upright Location: Somewhere west of nowhere	The only scary part about this is that it's legal. It's essentially a lobbying effort of the the christian organization that runs the place. They can no longer just hand money over to the politicians so they find another creative way to do it.

04-21-2003, 09:01 PM	#11 (permalink)
duckduck Psycho Location: Where hockey pucks run rampant	Source? __________________ Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way!

04-21-2003, 09:47 PM	#12 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/11...s_group+.shtml Google is Your Friend. I don't really see anything wrong with this personally, but its always disaster when you mix religion with politics. That danger is very real and no tin foil hat can protect you from it.

04-22-2003, 03:26 AM	#13 (permalink)
frenik Crazy Location: blah	Very scary! Another thing to worry about... how many politicians have attended (gasp) Catholic schools?!? Even worse, how many politicians' parents were of any specific religion?!? How many of them attend church weekly? Surely all of these things would influence their policies, which is a terrible thing. This is only improper if those people use their collective influence to help each other out, which this article doesn't suggest. This is simply a case of members of a religion living with other members of their religion. If their voting records are similar, I'll say it's not right, but until then, it's a witch hunt in my eyes. __________________ I don't know what's worse, that I dreamed about putting my ex-girlfriend in a woodchipper, or that I woke up with an erection. - jim norton

04-22-2003, 04:03 AM	#14 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Lebell, your voice is always appreciated. When it comes to religion, I'm so rabidly anti-religious that I answer in an across-the-board fashion every chance I get. It's a bias. In fact, religious issues are typically based in personal bias. As always, everyone's posts could start with "IMO". __________________ create evolution

04-22-2003, 08:17 AM	#15 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Art, I can understand where you are coming from, and believe it or not, I do understand the other posters. But what I think is missing is the critical distinction between Christianity that is quietly practiced by millions of spiritual Americans and the 'Christianity' that is preached by Falwell, Robertson, et.al. as a political force. If I may borrow a word, I am rabidly anti-fundamentalist, to the point where I can barely listen to the above individuals. But on the flip, some of my best, most worthwhile times have been spent in quiet community with other Christians in religious houses, both in San Francisco and in various places in Colorado. To me they are 'pearls of great price' whose value goes beyond dollars. If this particular house is just a lobbying tool by the moral majority, then I will also denounce it, but that isn't what the article says or implies. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

04-22-2003, 11:27 AM	#16 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	It's one thing for politicians to be in bed with lobbyists, but for the politicians to be in the lobbyist's bed - that's just scarey. __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

04-22-2003, 11:59 AM	#17 (permalink)
Nad Adam Psycho Location: Sweden	The one place where the communists had the right idea was their stance on religion. __________________ Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. - Psalms 137:9

04-23-2003, 12:15 AM	#22 (permalink)
KillerYoda The Original Emo Gangsta Location: Sixth Floor, Texas School Book Depository	I always thought it was supposed to be either a Jewish conspiracy or Freemasons. Weird. __________________ "So you're Chekov, huh? Well, this here's McCoy. Find a Spock, we got us an away team."

04-23-2003, 04:22 AM	#24 (permalink)
rekinom Crazy	Post removed. Last edited by rekinom; 06-04-2006 at 07:03 AM..

04-23-2003, 10:57 AM	#26 (permalink)
rekinom Crazy	Post removed. Last edited by rekinom; 06-04-2006 at 07:01 AM..

04-22-2003, 02:27 PM	#19 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I see it as another way for lobbyists to get closer to our lawmakers. If religion leads to someone being a good person and doing good things, that's fine with me. If religious influence leads to cessation of abortion rights, removal of real sex-ed in our schools, and harmful foreign policy, then it should be kicked the hell out of Washington. I don't have a problem with it, but it has to be kept in check, just like other groups. Unfortunately, religion hasn't done much of anything good that I can see in recent times.

04-22-2003, 11:46 PM	#21 (permalink)
f00sion Tilted Location: So. Cali	Its an interesting argument about them just continuing their spiritual life etc, etc, etc and I almost was ok with it... but the guy in the article says stuff like this: "Our goal is singular — and that is to hope that we can assist them in better understandings of the teachings of Christ, and applying it to their jobs," and it just sounds so suspicious, we need less christ in congress! Just think how it would be if the organization behind it was a big oil company or something instead of a church.

04-23-2003, 06:49 AM	#25 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	ok, after reading this article from Harper's http://www.harpers.org/online/jesus_...hing.php3?pg=1 I've changed my mind. There is definitely something wrong with this. It's long, but very interesting.

04-23-2003, 01:36 PM	#27 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	scary stuff __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

04-23-2003, 09:14 PM	#28 (permalink)
boatin Psycho	je-sus... That article is scary. A long read, but worth it, in a sick way. Gotta love those groups that admire Hitler... The ends justify the means, right?

04-23-2003, 09:14 PM	#29 (permalink)
Easytiger Insane Location: Tigerland	Religion is very important to a lot of people. If everybody agreed on religion, it would have a major place in politics. This being the REAL world, however, I think we would be better of if politics and religion were seperate entities. As far as the conspiracy goes, well, the older I get the more I think that nobody has the energy or commitment to run a conspiracy of global proportions. But the idea makes for great computer games.

04-24-2003, 02:03 PM	#30 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i mean they're bringing world leaders for a dinner. seems very much like they're taking over the world __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal