kate jack

I believe in the Law of Attraction....one attracts to their life whatever they give their energy and focus to....whether wanted or not.

The Law of Attraction is much more then positive thinking....and it's based on quantum physics. It's a universal law.

jorgelito

Yes.

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robot_parade

No. Not the way you mean, anyway. And, I don't want to sound like I'm belittling your beliefs, but I very much doubt it's based on quantum mechanics.

Cynthetiq

No I do not believe in the power of positive thinking. I believe in the power of being positive. But postive thinking? No. If so then everyone who thinks positively about winning the lottery would have done so. If it was that simple then my positive thinking would have netted me a new job and higher salary. If so then more people with cancer, HIV/AIDS would survive.

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mixedmedia

I believe in the power of positive thinking as a psychological tool. In that positive thinking tends to give you a positive outlook on life, thereby altering your perceptions on the world around you.

I do believe in the power of karma, and how the energy behind thoughts and actions can affect real change in the world, but it's not at all the same thing.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

ratbastid

The quantum physicists cited in The Secret and What the Bleep do We Know? have all come out after the fact saying they were taken out of context. Some have been quite upset to have their field manipulated in that way. Whatever message those films and the books and other products surround them are promoting, it doesn't have much to do with actual quantum mechanics.

To address the OP question: I don't believe in positive thinking the way most people usually talk about it. We can't convincingly talk ourselves into or out of anything. Not for long, at least. Positive thinking doesn't call into any question the "truth" of our view of a situation--instead it attempts to invoke and therefore summon forth whatever is needed to survive or overcome how it "is", and that "truth" is left intact as "THE truth". It's actually cemented in place as a thing that "is" that must be overcome or survived. So any effort (including positive thinking) to "improve" how it "is" just leaves you with more truth and mass around that which "is".

Now, if we get responsible for the talking we're already doing (to ourselves and others) and the world and "truth" that our usual language calls into existence, THEN something actually new is possible.

This post probably sounds like complete gobbledygook, but if you get what I'm saying here, it's life-altering.

Cynosure

Wasn't there a whole chapter devoted to this sort of thing, toward the back of the book The Dilbert Principle, by Scott Adams?



EDIT: Correction, the book was The Dilbert Future.

michaelm

Wasn't the whole mystique behind the positive thinking, that you are more accessible. And because of that, people threat you in another (read: better) way?

I believe in it, because with a positive thinking (but not dreaming), you don't have to face all (but some) of those madness and sadness we are trying to live with every day.

Baraka_Guru

The power of causation will always trump the power of positive thinking. Always.

The Law of Causality easily disproves the "Law" of Attraction.

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Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
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speshul-k

Well, I believe in it but that doesn't mean it always works unfortunately.

Toaster126

It's better than the alternatives.

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"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

MSD

Not in the sense of nonsense derived from a misapplication of quantum physics, but if you believe in it, it can't be any worse than placebo (which shouldn't be a substitute for anything)

World's King

I can be proof that it's bullshit.



I don't look on the bright side of life. And I'm still here. Am I happy? Sure. Whatever. Fuck you. Why does that even matter? I live my life how I want to. You live yours how you want to. Be happy. I'll be the angry cunt in the corner making fun of your pink polo shirt.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Cernunnos

Positive thinking, to me, does not itself induce any changes upon the world, but it can enable some people to establish the motivation necessary to change aspects of their own life, oftentimes for the better.

Example: Instead of sinking into a harmful depression with substance abuse after discovering that your girlfriend has dumped you for the pool boy, realize that you were just relieved of someone in your life who did not love you enough to stay, but loved you enough not to cheat during your relationship. She enabled you to move on, now get off your ass and do it!

Positive Thinking --> Energy/Motivation to Change --> Change --> Life Improvement --> Happiness

cpepinc

I want to thank those who wrote above, I have a friend who bought the crap of "The Secret " hook line and sinker, so I hope by saying what you have said, better than I would be able, to slowly bring her back to reality.

Sun Tzu

I was trying to find this information, could you provide a link?

Yes I believe it, but I have applied it with myself successfully. Random luck? At this point it really doesn’t matter to me. I do think it is unfortunate that most people won’t even engage in a self experiment to prove it wrong for themselves.

Does quantum physics have the answers for everything? Is the existence of an infinite number of parallel universes each with its own possible existence happening, easier to grasp than the law of attraction?

Has what existed before singularity been reasonably explained lately?

Perhaps performing an experiment using negative thinking would be easier to grasp.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

tommy thompson

If used correctly, I've seen positive thinking help people accomplish MARVELOUS things. Obvious example, someone I knew was intent on taking themselves OFF the planet. I spoke to her at length many times, and then introduced her to "The Secret". Her parents thanked me as has she for showing her what the power of positive thinking can do.

Negativity, and Positivity each have their place, tools of life, if you will.

I'm too lazy to look up the quote, so I am not sure who's it's from or if this even the exact words, but here goes:

"Whether you think you can, or think you can't, either way you are right."

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...a wandering soul...

Iliftrocks

I don't believe in being positive about things that are just wrong. You can't make yourself believe that things are rosy, when you are covered in crap.

But..... Having hope for things to get better, and having a realistically positive attitude about changes that you can make, and that would improve things for your situation, is a must for survival. I'd jump off a damned bridge if I had a very negative outlook on life.

Be positive, but keep it real, man....

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guyy

I am to blame for the muzak in the elevator. I am to blame for "reality" TV & Dr. Phil. I am to blame for the policeman about to club me, you are to blame for own repression.

I am to blame for even noticing this pseudo-philosophy.

pan6467

I believe you can influence your moods and thought processes with it, thereby making lemonade.

I am more of a believer in group think as far as destiny and fate.

I can be positive my marriage will work, but it takes my wife to also be positive to truly make it work.

I can try to better my community, my state, my country, my world and believe things will get better, but it takes the people in those places to also believe, in order for that betterment to become a reality.

Therein lies the problem because the reverse can also happen.

If enough people believe Revelations for example, then they will put forth the effort and set in motion Armageddon and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. In other words, if people are fed enough "bad news" and they believe the worst, they will set in motion those events so that the worst will happen.

Yet, within that framework, enough people believing that change can happen, can change the results before the final bell.

We are individuals and free, BUT we touch, react and affect each other. Since my realty ends when another person enters the room, and a new shared realty starts. I can only hope our realities can coexist peacefully and in a productive manner. I can set into motion those positive opportunities but if the other reality is negative and does not accept those then problems can arise.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Redlemon

My boss is a huge believer in the Law of Attraction. She told me about how she really wanted to replace the rug in a new office she opened, so she asked the universe for help, then the office above her had a plumbing failure, so the building owner had to replace her rugs.

I don't see why the universe should inconvenience other people and make them spend money on her behalf.

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

anti fishstick

I believe if you put your intention out there, you may get "answers" or doors opening to lead you to this intention. Is that the law of attraction? I do believe positive thinking can work, but I also believe negative thinking is more powerful, and easier, unfortunately. But, with greater effort, such as positive thinking requires, comes greater reward and happiness. So you choose your path...

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And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
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Makedde

I believe in positive thinking. I don't believe thinking positive can cure cancer or anything, obviously, but I do believe you can make your life better simply by thinking positive thoughts. Thinking positive can help a person overcome depression, for example.

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Sun flames and moons glow, timeless the tides will flow, what will I face, what will be mine, fortune and fate the other side...

pan6467

It just maybe, that if you put forth the intention and attention you see the positive things you were not seeing before because you were not looking for them in ways you should.

I agree the negative thinking is easier and it closes eyes and mind to the positive things that may already exist.

It's also easy I think to fall into the trap of believing you are thinking positively and still unable to see the opportunities because those around you are more negative.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Abbys

Offcourse I have always positive thinking...

Gr8 post...keep posting

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ManWithAPlan

There are lots of people who theorize on this, and also claim that it has to do with string theory, and that you're collapsing the tenth dimensional futures into the one that you're believing. My friend tried to justify it to me by sending me a computer-animated video of a quantum particle hitting a division and ricocheting into two directions at once, unless you put a camera on it, then it goes only in one side... Right...

Anyway, I think it's all the placebo effect. You think positive and force your mind to ignore the bad things.

__________________
In the end we are but wisps

Plan9

"Positive thinking is for stupid people!"

...

Probably no shocker, but I am a rugged "pessimist" (realist).

I don't believe in god or other magical superheroes, luck, I don't associate with money, and I drink powdered milk to save money.

You can count on me to see the down side of everything fluffy cloud bullshit sunbeam.

My brain was assembled from Henry "Rollins" Garfield and other "get-with-it" negative-in-comparison-to-others "zany-enough-to-be-pop-culture" icons like Chucky Palahniuk.

...

Is there a correlation between being "pessimistic" and being cheap?

...

Somehow I wanna relate the above trait with how I've never had a serious injury, financial issue, or other oh-noes event in my life despite a military deployments and being a white male under 30.

...

We are what we do, not what we think.

...

EDIT:

Here's a great bit that shares my philosophy with the Law of Attraction theme:

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Sun Tzu

In the four agreements

1. Be Impeccable With Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

2. Don't Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

3. Don't Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.

The often challenging #2 really carries a great deal of weight about how far people allow others to create their reality for them. When someone cuts you off or wont let you in how much time in seconds does the person control you over anger?


This film has been brought up here, but an elementary explanation worth considering.


-----Added 3/10/2008 at 09 : 39 : 25-----

I dont think there HAS to be a correlation between being cheap and pessimistic.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with you on the other statement- do you think one happens without the other?


if what you do in the way of thoughts and actions is bringing you everything you want in life- there is no reason to ever change it.

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Halx

The Law of Attraction is a concept that was created by a cult that believes that an ancient warrior named Ramtha inhabits the body of an old woman.

I'll pass.

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MSD

The double slit experiment is a real thing and it has nothing to do with the positive thinking or this law of attraction crap. In the absence of a detector, the path of a single photon fired at the double slit is a probability function rather than a definite path, and individual photons interfere with themselves. Adding a detector collapses the probability function and forces the photon to act as a particle rather than a wave.

Dr. Quantum is a nutty pseudo-scientist, but this is an accurate description of it (and probably what your friend sent you)

mixedsubstance

First of all, This has nothing to do with 'God' (as you may think of God as a superior being), luck, or superhero stuff, etc. And it's not about 'Thinking Positive about things that are just wrong...thinking that things are peachy when they're not'. It's about something totally different. Let me break down the 'Quantum Physics' of it all to explain what 'Law of Attraction' means.

Let's start with the 'Positive Thinking' aspect first...This has to do with what YOU think that brings feelings and actions into play in YOUR life. Not in the world, not elsewhere, In YOUR life:

Actions come from thoughts. Our thoughts manifest in our subconscious- feels like thoughts just 'pop' in our head. So, thoughts are created from our subconscious- which lead to feelings in our conscience, then lead to action. And our thoughts are generally those of fear. Once we start feeling on these thoughts, we need to ask ourselves why we feel that way...even if you don't know the true thought yet, you can ask yourself why you feel the way you are feeling. And it will lead to the subconscious thought. From there, you will be able to transform that thought into a positive thought, producing positive feelings, and therefore making positive actions, choices, and decisions.

Let's use a current example of asking of your feelings to diagnose a thought:

How Am I feeling?
-Stressed, frustrated
What makes me feel stressed and frustrated?
-I can't find a job even though I have been trying and trying for months.
Why do I think I can't find a job?
-Maybe because there's nothing out there for me, I don't have enough skills.
Why do I think there's nothing out there for me or that I don't have enough skills?
(It becomes tricky here- you just can't say 'I don't know')
-Maybe because my job industry in low-demand
Why do I think it's in low-demand?
-Because my company is stuggling or the economy is struggling.
Is that something I did that I can fix?
-No. I guess it makes me feel helpless and hopeless, like I'm running into a wall.
Then why am I feeling helpless and hopeless?
-Because I'm worried that I won't find another job.
And what would happen if I don't find another job?
-I will become broke and unable to support myself and my family.

BOOM. The fear comes out. Fear is a state of mind, which manifest thoughts, which then manifest feelings. Feelings lead from fear. We all tend to fear something. And if you've ever heard the phrase 'there's only love and fear.'- while that's true, we tend to think of them as seperate states of mind- but they are not at all. We tend to fear something that will affect something or someone we love, including ourselves. And then we start to manifest these thoughts into feelings- and those feelings can sometimes be irrational, unhealthy, and even untrue. Ever heard of 'false feelings'? These false feelings are what get us into trouble if we act upon them- such as the man who killed his family and himself or the old lady who shot herself because of the poor economy. Everything they worked for, owned, had an attachment to, and loved- they thought were gone...why? Because they felt they have failed and feared that those around them would not approve or accept that. That they would be considered a failure to the ones they love. And they couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I am focusing on the economy because that's what we are most fearing right now. So many thoughts race through our heads- Will i have my job tomorrow? What if I lose my house? What if I can't support my family? What if I can't make my mortgage payments? What if I never get out of debt? What's going to happen?

Ok, so once we get these thoughts in our heads...not only do they create feelings, they create 'visions'. And these visions are subconscious- for example, you start to see yourself being broke, you see your family struggling- no food on the table, no new pair of shoes for Jimmy, no presents under the tree...These visions are creating feelings which stem from the state of mind- fear. And many, if not all of you, have heard 'what you fear most will come true'. Well....it's true. You've got to literally rewind your feelings to your thoughts, then basically re-write them. And in that way you will be able to visualize what you want most. Of course, to me anyway, this is a great power that humans have that most don't beleive it. If you walked up to someone and said 'you can get what you want just by visualizing it.' They would most likely laugh or look at you weird. Many do understand this though- but very, very few of us actually practice 'visualization' or The Law of Attraction. And, of course, with every power, you can't abuse it. You can't sit there visualizing a pile of money will fall in your lap literally- but that can be a great vision for more money coming ahead for you. But it's just a matter of flipping a switch...you see the negative vision- push it away and enter a new, positive vision. Do this every time, and pretty soon all you will have is that positive vision.

We attract what we think. All in due time, mind you...but it does happen and it's been proven many times.

Take for an example I read in an article some years ago- scientists had 2 basketball teams of the same skill level to perform an experiment. The scientists asked 1 of the 2 coaches to have their team 'visualize' winning the game. The other coach was not instructed to have their team visualize, just coach them as normal.
When the 2 teams played the game against each other- guess who won? The team who was coached to visualize winning.

Also- think about those people out there who miraculously recovered though doctors told them they wouldn't- like that boy from Iraq who was told wouldn't be able to walk again- for the guy on America's Got Talent (if you haven't seen it- Donald Braswell) who was determined to sing again after losing his voice for 11 years....it goes on and on. Determination is just another way to put it. Some people might not realize they are using the Law of Attraction or Positive Thinking. They just call it determination- whether it be conscious or subconscious. It's not about 'Curing Cancer'- it's not a widespread remedy. It's something that we are in control of and how the power of as individuals for our own lives. But- if you think about it- if each person knew, understood, and practiced this, many more people would be healthy, happier, more sane, and safe. But it's up to one person to change one person. We can't change others by thought. We can only change ourselves.

Ok- so let's dig a little deeper. How do we manifest these thoughts in the first place, if they seem to come out of the blue?

Everything created is only made up of one thing. That one thing holds everything and everybody together. It moves us. It helps us think. But if it's abused, it can lead to fear- death- destruction- injury- illness- etc. Can you take a guess at what it is? If you are thinking ENERGY, you are spot-on. And what IS Quantum Physics? The motion of energy. And in order to have thoughts in our mind- our mind must spring them from the moving energy in our brains- i.e. energy waves. BRAIN WAVES. We are moving the energy in our brains constantly- either slowly or quickly, but it's all 'subconscious'- In our minds. And you will find that this 'energy is in everything and everywhere' has been proven and can't be denied by scientists all over the world.

I'm not claming to be some mighty spiritualist or philosopher, but this is something that I have studied, learned, read, practiced, understand, and believe...and have always had tremendous results. Sure I fall behind- I find myself stressed, worried, etc.- but then I know it's time to step back and analyze what's going on, what my true thoughts are, and start visualizing what I wish to bring into my life.
-----Added 8/10/2008 at 03 : 02 : 20-----
And, MSD, I see that there IS a connection to Mr. Quantum's little experiment and Positive Thinking/Law of Attraction. Backing up to my Quantum Physics Breakdown- and the manipulation of energy....it has everything to do with it. Think of the electron as a thought- think of the observer as you. You step in to observe that thought- and you can change it. You will see it differently. Just by observing it, you are acknowledging that it is there, you are starting to manipulate it. It all just boils down to energy. Not simple- but simple.

__________________
Well, isn't that just kick-you-in-the-crotch, spit-on-your-neck fantastic?!?

*Without energy, there would be nothing.*

Jinn

The "Law of Attraction" is not a law. Certainly not a scientific law. It's a psuedo-science way to give hokey magnetic bracelets and 'positive thinking' theories the semblance of credibility. There ARE laws of attraction, but they have nothing to do with human thought or "positive thinking."

I can't think of much in this world more arrogant than thinking that the positive thoughts of one individual actually bring about change in a world so complicated as ours. It's similar in arrogance to someone who believes that their one prayer, amongst the billions upon billions of prayers, should be the one answered.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

mixedsubstance

Oh dear, Jinn- closed minds will never see the possibilities behind the walls we build up. And calling a theory or belief arrogant is arrogance in itself. Not everyone in the world can understand or accept things like this- but that's because they are not open to learning more about it before they have an opinion about it.
"Be the change you wish to see in the world."- Ghandi
It's not about changing your thoughts to change the world. It's about changing your thoughts to change your life. And the more people who do this, the better we can interact, and find ourselves working together in this magnetic field of energy in a positive way. But it's in an honest way, being 'Selfish'- as in, focusing on your life to better yourself.

__________________
Well, isn't that just kick-you-in-the-crotch, spit-on-your-neck fantastic?!?

*Without energy, there would be nothing.*

Jinn

There is No Secret: The Myth of the Law of Attraction ? Get Rich Slowly

When someone says something like:

It's not just closed minds which will "never see the possibilities behind the walls we build up." It's as simple as ignoring outright quacks.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

mixedsubstance

I've read The Secret- and watched the video. I know what it's all about and it's just one of the many, many sources of "The Law of Attraction". Do you know what a scientific law is, btw? It means it's a truth that's there, even if you don't believe it or accept. It has been PROVEN and no matter what, cannot be disproven.
Other sources:
The Architecture of All Abundance- Lenedra Carroll
Conversations with God series & other writings by Neale Donald Walsch (Tomorrow's God book is powerful)
The Science of Being and Art of Living by His Holiness Maharashi Mahesh Yogi
And a useful page that explains what I did:
The Proof is Out There | Rich Mind Life Strategy

It was ALWAYS be that some people will know and understand this- and there will ALWAYS be that some people will deny it, disbelieve it, and think it's a joke, fake, and impossible. But, not unless we start to see that Energy is Everything and the fact that it is so powerful and we as humans have so much control over it, that it will always be denied and ridiculed. Start to look at the world around you- everything. The trees, your car, the road, your tv....all made up of energy. Moving fast or slow, one way or another...but the most powerful energy is the energy we can't see- the energy that we hold inside us- that we are using subconsciously- in the '90% of our brain' that we are not using.

Interesting sig:
So is that just the conscious actions you make, all physically performed? Nothing else?
Hmm...kind of a mixed thought there. Yes, awareness without action can be worthless- but action without awareness is worthless as well. But failure is not an accident- true, as well- but failure is a chosen state of mind. And people can change that state of mind. Right? Do you think that everything you want is something you have to work hard for physically and externally in order to deserve it? Do you think that not failing is having lots of money AND being happy? Being accepted by society? Ask yourself these questions before you answer.

__________________
Well, isn't that just kick-you-in-the-crotch, spit-on-your-neck fantastic?!?

*Without energy, there would be nothing.*

Cynthetiq

Okay, I've tried to hold my tongue in this debate because I find myself to be an disbeliever in law of attraction.

postive thinking, sure there's something to that, but law of attraction? I've wanted many things in my life and no matter how much I've tried to attract them to me, they haven't come. Only hard work and diligence have gotten me those things.

But if what you are saying is true, then wouldn't an amputee benefit from this kind of thing? I mean the law of attraction should give them their arm or leg back.

Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

But following the logic of this video of prayer and applying it to the law of attraction, you wind up in exactly the same spot.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Jinn

Your stunning disregard for the basic tenets of science and your complete misunderstanding of what constitutes a 'scientific law' makes it very difficult for me to continue this discussion with you. I appreciate the (brief) discussion, but I don't think I'll make any further inroads with a person who believes this is the definition of a scientific law, or believes that this is how science functions.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

mixedsubstance

Jinn, I haven't exactly heard any proof or explanation of your beliefs on why you disclaim this. That's what I am getting at here. All you are doing is saying that Law of Attraction is fake and people who believe in it are arrogant. Why do you think this? You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but by all means you should have something to back it up with and accept those who do believe in it. I am not trying to force you to see it my way- I am trying to show you that you are not backing up what you are saying- hence, your mere opinion of it is lacking foundation.

On another note, many people think that Positive Thinking is just about 'thinking happy thoughts' and Law of Attraction is supposed to be some bogus 'Miracle Work' to bring back something/someone or to change something that is out of our hands or to have thousands of dollars land in our lap...this is completely inaccurate. Of course there are those that cannot understand something they don't see. And they can't accept something they don't understand. It's about TRULY believing at your utmost roots, digging into your subconscious, that you have the power to bring to you what you want- within means, of course- not like asking for a leg back. But perhaps- to walk again. To do things just how you used to when you did have that leg. Prayer- Positive Thinking- Law of Attraction- and Visioning- ALL the same thing. Not one of these things has less power than the other. They all have to do with manipulating energy with the strongest belief in you that it will happen in time- at the right time.

__________________
Well, isn't that just kick-you-in-the-crotch, spit-on-your-neck fantastic?!?

*Without energy, there would be nothing.*

Cynthetiq

I had an aunt earlier this year die of breast cancer. No matter how positively she thought, no matter how positively I or the family thought, she still died of cancer. Prayer, attraction, positve thinking.... she still died.

I have a friend who is terminally ill with brain cancer. No matter how positively he thinks, no matter how positively I think, he will still die of cancer before the end of the year.

Law of attraction? how does that fit in?

Postive thinking? how does that apply?

Prayer? how does his concern over rule any other concern?

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Jinn

Again, your philosophical and scientific understanding makes this very difficult to discuss on an intellectual level. I feel like I might get further by instead grunting at you. Not only do I not have to prove or explain my reasons for "disclaiming" this, you have to provide verifiable, empirical and scientific evidence that it DOES exist. Just like unicorns, the spaghetti monster and boogie monsters, the onus is on the claimant to provide the evidence for a given phenomenon's existence.

If the scientific community suddenly undertook the bold role of disproving every theory posited for how the Universe works, no scientific progress would ever be made. Theories about how the Universe works far outnumber reasonable, verifiable explanations for those theories. In order to demonstrate to an acceptable level that "positive thought" or the "attraction theory" (I refuse to call it a "Law" anymore, as it is not a scientific law; far from it), you'd have to do something called RESEARCH.

Research involves observing, documenting and REPEATING experiences in which 'positive thought' or 'prayer' or whatever you want to call it has brought about measurable changes into the Universe. I don't envy the scientific environment you'd have to set up to isolate "positive thought" as the only variable, and I frankly don't think it would be possible as it is nigh impossible to 'observe' accurately.

Hell - if you were able to demonstrate such a thing, there are number of prizes for such research. The James Randi foundation alone would offer you more than $1 million for providing evidence that your theory is sound.

Until then, you're just another adamant follower of today's alchemy, today's 'chants', today's 'healing powers', today's 'homeopathic medicine,' asking someone ELSE to spend valuable time debunking your wild claims, rather than taking the time yourself to observe, repeat, and document cases which support your claim.

How would you feel if I asked you to disprove my theory that everything that happens in this world is actually the result of intervention in the affairs of humans by evil genies, or Jinn? Wouldn't you want me to present SOME sort of verifiable, repeatable evidence FOR their existence before you wasted the time attempting to refute their existence?

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel