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Jesus - fake or real?
I want to believe (thank you preacher), but I just can't. I think that humans have great imaginations. I think that Jesus could have been based on something real at one point (genetic anomoly?), but now its just an urban legend.
I'd like to think its just some hermit up in the clouds... |
Might have been a real human being at some point in time. No way the son of god, prophet or what have you.
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I'm not sure if I follow what you're asking.
Are you asking if the person of Jesus who the stories are (loosely) based on existed? In that case, I would say the chances are very good that he did. Or are you asking if Jesus as described in the Christian bible existed and continues to exist? In that case, it's all a matter of faith, but there's no logical reason to believe that being ever existed. The historical Jesus and the mythological Jesus are two different entities, and neither needs the other to be viable. |
There's very little extra-Biblical evidence for Jesus. If you don't believe in the Bible, you don't really have any reason to believe that it was based on a Jesus. It was probably just a combination of old myths and a particular man named Apollonius of Tyana (virgin birth, healer, raised dea, walk through walls, persecuted, brought to trial, crucified, rose from the dead and ascended to heaven... sound familiar?).
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I believe Jesus existed. I believe he was a buddha. Do I believe it is the immaculately concepted son of the almighty? No.
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I think Christianity is over 90% appropriation of pagan myths, practices, and beliefs.
Jesus may have existed. I don't see why not. But he only exists now as a cultural phenomenon. Even Aristotle exists, and Shakespeare, in similar fashions. They are a part of our culture and will have meaning for a very long time. I don't believe in deities. |
I could answer the poll question if you used the word 'did' instead of 'does.'
do I think he lived? yes do I think he lives on? no |
For the most part, I agree with everyone. I meant the question to be does he still exist now as a deity of sorts, which I do not believe. As for did he once exist, perhaps, but I have no way to know for sure and feel like it doesn't really matter.
I kind of feel the same way about dinosaurs ... |
I agree with the general consensus. There is simply no valid reason to believe in Jesus as anything more than (possibly) some guy with one hell of a cult following.
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You should see the people outside our apartment.
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I believe. I seem to be of the minority, but that's cool with me. I have felt Him in a way I could never fully describe with words.
I am a very sexual and very spiritual person, although many people would say that's an oxymoron. I cannot deny what I have felt, what I have seen, the personal miracles of my own life; but I do know that there are people all over the world that "feel" their Gods in a spiritual way, that have witnessed "miracles" and believe in their religion because of these things. I will make a statement that many would say contradicts Christianity: I believe that there is a God and that anyone truly seeking God will find Him/Her, I believe that only way for ME to reach God is through Jesus Christ, however I also believe that others may reach God through other means. Am I correct, I don't know, but I do know I will follow the inner feelings that I have and trust them as they have kept me safe for years and given me peace at my darkest hours. Without my belief in Jesus I can guarantee I would have taken my own life a long time ago, if that's the only purpose He serves, than it is a worthwhile one, IMO. Quote:
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Meaning, they probably did, but it doesn't really matter to me. In other words, as far as Jesus or the Dinosaurs ever existing, I don't care. |
ipollux:
I see, I miss read. Yeah, I don't think dinosaurs matter much to me either or at all actually, except that you have to learn about them in school, but I digress. |
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To me the Bible has a much historical truth as the Odyessy written by Homer.
Jesus = Santa Clause . . . IMO The idea of God in general regardless of which religion has become dangerous and threatens humanity as a whole. Not from the idea of God itself, but the actions motivating perceived "truth". **EDIT*** I had a video posted showing that was shot by a British film crew in Israel in 2006. While the video itself was extremely interesting; it had a website at the end of it. I did not check out the site in the numerous times I watched the video. I finally did check it out after posting it here. It turned out to be a white supremist / racial hate site. If anyone watched the video and took enough interest to follow to the site, I appologize. That does not represent my views or the point I was making in posting this example. |
God is dead, and no one cares. If there is a hell, I'll see you there.
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and raise you Closer By Nine Inch Nails "I wanna f**k you like an animal My whole existence is flawed You get me closer to God" That happens to be one of my favorite songs actually! |
Yes Jesus is very real.
Thank you. |
Wow, Sun Tzu, that video really speaks volumes about how the belief in God (in this case represented by Jesus) can take on numerous, sometimes horrendous faces. Knowing there are people out there like that, be them drunk or not, is really quite frightening and completely ruins any points using the "X population believes in Jesus" argument.
Not that it proves anything about the existence of Christ, just commenting. |
I once followed way of the gourd, but now I believe the shoe is the righteous path to salvation.
The scriptures are clear: "He has given us... his shoe! The shoe is the sign. Let us follow His example. Let us, like Him, hold up one shoe and let the other be upon our foot, for this is His sign, that all who follow Him shall do likewise. The shoe is a sign that we must gather shoes together in abundance. Let us gather shoes together! It is a sign that, like Him, we must think not of the things of the body, but of the face and head! Give me your shoe! Hold up the sandal, as He has commanded us! Take the shoes and follow Him!" |
Not believing a deity exists makes absolutely no difference to the deity. The idea of a deity is something that does NOT exist, at least in any we can understand.
It's kind of like asking if karma exists. Or the old joke about religion. One man asks the other if wants to go to a Sunday service. The other says, "I don't believe in the church's doctrines". The first man says, "oh, I've actually SEEN them, I can assure you, they do exist." Do you believe in homosexual marriage? It's happening in California, so you would be wrong if you didn't. Do you believe in get quick rich schemes? They exist every day in your e-mail inbox. Do you believe in corporal punishment? Even some public schools still practice it. |
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Corporal punishment may be very much akin to Jesus Christ. Both existed...at one time...but not any longer. |
Come to the deep south. Misbehave.
Whappity whap. |
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That's awesome that out of nowhere a coalition of believers voted. Praise god! Hallelujah!
</sarcasm> |
ipollux, don't be sarcastic about believers. I believe, I have, and I have one of them high falootin private college edumacations.
This belief is not at odds with TFP. Halx buit a great community at absolute odds to what I think. Tecoyah and Charlatan and so many others offer such great direction and help at this site that I'd be a fool to dis them. They're great. What does that have to do with me? Nothing. I think I have some ideas worth expressing, but I'm not the omnipresent force here. Am I happy here? You betcha. Am I responsible for management? No. Who built your neighborhood? |
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I don't believe in things. There's what's true, what's false, what we don't know yet, and what we can't know. I'm not concerned with the last category because belief takes up valuable time and brain power that can be dedicated to facts.
Evidence that I've seen points to a man who is remembered and referred to as "Jesus" in modern English having existed around two thousand years ago, but not much verifiable beyond that. I doubt that anything verifiable will come up to change what I think, and I doubt that evidence or lack thereof will change the mind of people who concern themselves with belief. |
Sure Jesus lived,died and came back to life 3 days later...just like the Bible predicted he would do it.
Being the Son of God ,he had the power and God had a plan for all of Mankind to live forever in his heaven IF we believed in JESUS and GOD. Sounds like I believe the HOLY BIBLE doesn't it? There are too many things in the Bible that are true NOT to believe it. (Another thing: What if I am right and non-believers are WRONG ? ) |
why aren't there "both" or "neither" options in the poll?
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And if you're right and non-believers are wrong, Heaven's going to be a comparatively empty place, what with all the Hundi's, Bhuddists and whatnot that have ever lived and died. Not to mention the Mormons. |
If the Bible is right, I think Jesus is shady. For more information on why, read my blog. But in short, it's because that means he's sending good, innocent people who've never been exposed to him or have, but like all of us have no proof of his existence, to suffer for an eternity.
So, Ron, when you say stuff like what if you're right and non-believers are wrong, you make it sound like you're playing it safe. As if just in case it's true, you're going to play along. Well, something like that's not going to control how I live my life. |
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I will enthusiastically state, I do my very best not judge others or their beliefs. The obvious motivation for this being the many faults I carry sober me of doing so. Even in debates where I am totally the opposite in beliefs, I strive to understand why other side sees they way they do. When it comes to this topic, I will admittingly confess that minor frustration sets in. Not enough to ever down someone for their spiritual beliefs, but to suggest research. I am a former Christian that saw atheists as lost souls; shaking my head with a “if they only knew” attitude. I saw advice to research history outside the Bible as either a waste of time or in some cases the devil trying to influence me. After all what more did I need other than the Bible. After years of research applying critical thought and several visits to Israel with an archeologist; I began to fully understand a diiferent acceptance. When the interest of science and quantum physics took hold, it was the last push to where I am today. That is, I don’t know what God is. There is currently nothing other than the Bible that suggests (or Koran) that the reality we now know, (the laws of physics and other displines of science) will someday cascade to a permanent supernatural exsistence when the Mesiah returns in a light of heavenly glory. There is nothing to suggest that humanity deserves to keep this planet if it doesn’t use the evolved tool it has- the brain to stop blaming its shortcomings on a central unseen force that instigates the motivation of what this civilization (in its many facets) has determined as being “evil”. I don’t know what god is, but when I look at the universe in its majestic span of time- I cant help but think that whatever, if there is a supreme creator of something of this magnitude, its very arrogant to think that there is anything “we” simple carbon based beings on this tiny speck of dust could do anything that would offend it. There is plenty that offends us though. Think about what one single thing has caused more wars than anything else in history. Whether you do or don’t, I will still suggest that you research how the Bible was written. If you do, also keep in mind these were men; human beings writing from stories and accounts passed down. Not from words burnt into rock of metal from a scientifically unknown source left as an enigma, but writings just like mythology. While if you ever decide to venture down this path; finding your own sources is the best here are examples: Christian Texts Dating Early Christian Gospels from jesus to christ: the first christians: from hebrew bible to christian bible Bibliography of some of the Bible research resources used by BibleTexts Quote:
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I don't think he ever did. There are very few historical records that mention his name as a person at all, and those that do are considered very questionable. I will say though, that the existence of Jesus Christ is probably one of the least questionable thing Christians believe. |
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the OLD Testament hundreds of years before Jesus was born. That's what I was writing about.:) |
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Why don't you think that we, a bunch of vulgar and hate-filled creatures, could offend a supreme diety with what we do everyday? War, hate, genocide, murder, theft, adultery, dishonesty, those would sure offend me. |
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A couple of questions: are you of the belief that humans are born "tainted with sin", or do you think that new born babies are truly innocent? http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m...df_hst_big.jpg http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m...hlight_330.jpg Would you find it more an aspect of faith than a calculated statisic that there is other intellegent life in the vastness of the known universe (not even our own Milky Way, but the whole) Ive been to the garden tomb several times, the only physical anomoly I found was a piece of a metal rod within the rock that used to hold the stone door in place. It had been sheared. The tour guides did not mention for some reason. While some people would see that as something left by an angel that came down and flung the gate open, I see it as a metal rod that used to be there. Other than that; there is nothing else. The faith of millions is based on a writing that was written by MEN who say they were inspired by God, and then edited several times after that. Athanasius of Alexandria and men (and I do mean men- women were not part of this editing process) like him have dictated what millions place their faith in. Book of Adam and Eve, Book of Jubilees, Book of Enoch, Infancy Gospel of Thomas, Proto-Gospel of James, Gnostic Scriptures of Nag Hammadi, Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Nicodemus, Apocalypse of Peter, so on and so on . . . what are your thoughts on them? Have you ever read them, any of them? |
My answers in bold.
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At least we can be comforted that God will never destroy the life on Earth by WATER again. Although no promise is ever made about fire breathing harpies raining down upon is. Although I don’t think people living in Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India, and Thailand gave much faith to that promise. I wonder how many Christians spent Christmas in that part of the world in 2004. Quote:
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It comes down to the while factual existence of a man. Verses the supernatural existence of a higher being. |
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