Are UFOs visitors from space? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

DaveOrion · 09-23-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Since there is precedent for secret military aircraft that may appear to be alien, I think it'd be a more safe assumption to say it was military than it was extraterrestrial. If big green aliens in capes came out and asked me if I wanted to go to Omicron Persei VIII, I'd simply accept that information into my world view and have evidence that either there is intelligent life out there, or I've become schizophrenic.

Thats exactly what I did, accept the fact that UFO's are real, and when I see a 'Grey' step out of a saucer and say "Live Long & Prosper", I'll accept that too. I must be a realist also......

I've heard all the theories, from secret military project to beings from another dimension. The simplest explanation would be that the military has developed the technology and uses the UFO mythology as a cover story, a disinformation campaign. But the simplest explanation isn't always correct, it only tends to be. I've yet to be convinced by any theory, so I'll have to wait & see.

Mojo_PeiPei · 09-23-2007, 11:03 AM

Anybody remember when that Old Canadian defense minister came out guns blazing attesting the "fact" (not that I'm saying it is factual) that Aliens do exist and they've been coming here for sometime. And all of this with government knowledge and cooperation.

Willravel · 09-23-2007, 11:15 AM

Sounds kinda like he lost it.

Mojo_PeiPei · 09-23-2007, 11:23 AM

http://www.ufodigest.com/parliament.html

Here's a link to an article.

Apperently he is really concerned that Bush might trigger at intergalatic war, because again, apperently Bush is building a forward base on the moon, with some offensive capabilities to montior all interstellar travel.

On the one hand he was a defense minister, and thus has ties to Norad, I think he would be a person who would be in the "know". At the same time, forward moon bases that can shoot at intergalatic traffic is a little out there.

Ustwo · 09-23-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

http://www.ufodigest.com/parliament.html

Here's a link to an article.

Apperently he is really concerned that Bush might trigger at intergalatic war, because again, apperently Bush is building a forward base on the moon, with some offensive capabilities to montior all interstellar travel.

On the one hand he was a defense minister, and thus has ties to Norad, I think he would be a person who would be in the "know". At the same time, forward moon bases that can shoot at intergalatic traffic is a little out there.

Oh George Bush, is there no evil you can't do?

We better go easy here or someone will claim the planes in 9/11 were really space ships. If it hasn't been claimed already of course....

Sigh I knew I shouldn't have just googled 9/11 and UFO's......

Martian · 09-23-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

Thats exactly what I did, accept the fact that UFO's are real, and when I see a 'Grey' step out of a saucer and say "Live Long & Prosper", I'll accept that too. I must be a realist also......

I've heard all the theories, from secret military project to beings from another dimension. The simplest explanation would be that the military has developed the technology and uses the UFO mythology as a cover story, a disinformation campaign. But the simplest explanation isn't always correct, it only tends to be. I've yet to be convinced by any theory, so I'll have to wait & see.

But willravel didn't see what you saw and neither did I. All due respect, but we can't make any assumptions based on hearsay. Since you've read the other thread and quoted from it, you've seen my breakdown of why it's unlikely that we're being visited by space invaders; in light of that, we'd need very hard proof to accept as fact that we have interstellar peeping toms.

And yeah, the Drake equation is a big steaming pile of crap; it's basically a bunch of made up numbers. As to SETI, well... I admire the conviction of those people, but there's no scientific basis for what they're doing. They're not looking because they have reason to believe they'll find something, they're doing it because they want to find something.

Willravel · 09-23-2007, 12:22 PM

To be clear, I don't necessarily believe in extraterrestrial life, but I do believe in Martian!

Lasereth · 09-23-2007, 07:45 PM

The reason why aliens aren't real is the same reason why ghosts aren't real: there's no proof.

To the people who believe in aliens and UFOs: do you believe in ghosts?

From a sheer political and logical standpoint, there's another incredibly obvious reason why aliens and ghosts aren't real: if they were real, the entire world <I>would</I> know about them, and pretty much everything that is written and recorded in science books would have to be rewritten. If your neighbor has a haunted house, answer this question: why is the media not there? Why are scientists not there? Why is paranormal activity, which would turn science upside down, not replicable when we want it to be?

If there really are UFOs, why have they never been successfully and repeatedly been recorded? There are organizations that are in existance to search and find UFOs and ghosts. Why have they failed? Why have they not succeeded <I>once</I> since history began?

Because ghosts aren't real and aliens in spaceships aren't real. If either of these phenomenon were real, it would be the biggest scientific discovery that our world has ever seen. Once is all it takes. One spaceship. One ghost. ONE event that has been recorded or duplicated and the myths would be over...proof requires one simple example and the ghosts and UFOs won't give it up. Isn't it a bit odd that history has been recorded for thousand of years and we can't get a single damn ghost or alien to say hello? It's because they're not out there.

I also believe that there is no way of telling or even guessing that extra terrestrial life exists. Many say that since there are billions of stars in our galaxy surely there are planets with life. Right? Riight?? The problem is, we don't know how lucky we are. We don't know if we're flukes or if we're the norm. Until we know that it's impossible to guess if life exists on any scale. Look at Mars. Look at Venus. Those are what Earth should have been, but by a stroke of luck we didn't melt or freeze.

Ustwo · 09-23-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

I also believe that there is no way of telling or even guessing that extra terrestrial life exists. Many say that since there are billions of stars in our galaxy surely there are planets with life. Right? Riight?? The problem is, we don't know how lucky we are. We don't know if we're flukes or if we're the norm. Until we know that it's impossible to guess if life exists on any scale. Look at Mars. Look at Venus. Those are what Earth should have been, but by a stroke of luck we didn't melt or freeze.

I would say that the chance of there being no other planets out there with our climate is pretty much nill. If there is a planet in orbit at the right distance it will be in that goldilocks zone.

As for life, the only 'what if' is how unlikely it is to start up on its own. If its 1 in a million, we are not alone, if its 1 in a billion, we are not alone, but thats the one factor in the drake equation which is a true unknown which can't be guessed at with any accuracy.

Once you get that life, evolution will take care of the rest.

DaveOrion · 09-24-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

But willravel didn't see what you saw and neither did I. All due respect, but we can't make any assumptions based on hearsay. Since you've read the other thread and quoted from it, you've seen my breakdown of why it's unlikely that we're being visited by space invaders; in light of that, we'd need very hard proof to accept as fact that we have interstellar peeping toms.

And yeah, the Drake equation is a big steaming pile of crap; it's basically a bunch of made up numbers. As to SETI, well... I admire the conviction of those people, but there's no scientific basis for what they're doing. They're not looking because they have reason to believe they'll find something, they're doing it because they want to find something.

Just to be clear also......I never suggested that anyone else accept the fact that UFO's are real, I only stated my own experience. I never said it was ET in origin or there were ET's inside either, only that is was a UFO, plain & simple. If you accept it fine, if not thats fine too. If you believe you're a little green man from mars thats cool with me, if you base your entire life on logic & science, from a vulcan point of view, thats cool too.

With all the advancements in technology over the last hundred years, its easy for me to see these advancements continuing. Theoretically, faster than light travel & time travel are possible, all you need is time & money, people dedicated to the pursuit, and a huge power source which has also been theorized......Science doesn't evolve by standing still, its usually the mavericks on the edge of logic & reason, willing to take a chance, accept the ridicule, who end up end making the profound breakthroughs.....

Crack · 09-24-2007, 11:16 AM

Man1: Prove me wrong then!
Man2: Noooooo... you have to prove you are right!
Man1: But I can't!
Man2: Well, I can't prove you are wrong either!

Man1: Well... where does that take us?
Man2: I hear Man3 is an idiot, lets go make fun of him!
Man1: Prove he's an idiot!
Man2: *sigh*

And so the story goes... before it was religion.. and now it's UFOs.
Back and forth the anger rages, a solution was not found...
I hope that I am living in the up and coming ages when the debate is finally buried and forgotten deep within the ground.

(I just made that up)

tecoyah · 09-24-2007, 11:31 AM

While I, personally believe there are many civilizations "out there", I am forced to consider two very important factors.

1) Distances- Considering the closest candidate for a civilization is a minimum of 4 light years away, and the furthest possible known candidate is a little over 14 billion light years away...The Odds of a meeting of any two civilizations become slim, even with cheap interstellar travel.

2) Timing- Our species is a couple hundred thousand years old. Our civilization is a couple thousand years old. Our technological revolution in a couple hundred years old. Our planet is 4 billion years old. When taken in the context of Matched timing likelyhood, its extremely unlikely any two civilizations just happen to be at the same stage of evolution, let alone capable of noticing the other even exists.

Now, considering the distances between any two peoples, combined with the Chance they just happen to see one another....what would you all place the odds at?

Also....think about this. 100 yrs. from now some creature on another planet picks up I love Lucy on his ultra powerful TV reciever. He then decides to send a little something back to say hello. Do you really think we will even be listening to that old Radio technology in 200 yrs? Hell very soon we stop all analog broadcast in the US anyway.

Plan9 · 09-24-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

...either there is intelligent life out there, or I've become schizophrenic.

For some scientists the world was flat. Round Earth people were CRAZY!

...

I like to keep "possibilities" in check, but not locked in the basement.

Water is the basic element required for life, right? Assuming the rest of the universe shares the same atomic structure (sure, why not?)... odds are water is elsewhere.

"Maybe" isn't a religious or scientific declaration. Just maybe.

Willravel · 09-24-2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Water is the basic element required for life, right?

From what we know, sure. We also assume that life can only be carbon based because carbon bonds so easily with other elements, especially oxygen and hydrogen... but silicon based life can theoretically exist. Some life may not even require water, instead enjoying frozen carbon monoxide. That's my point: we aren't smart enough to guess at extraterrestrial life yet. We don't know enough.

Plan9 · 09-24-2007, 12:56 PM

(remembers that X-Files episode with the silicon based lifeform living in high temp environment and eating people's faces)

Oooo... educational.

Mojo_PeiPei · 09-25-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

For some scientists the world was flat. Round Earth people were CRAZY!

...

I like to keep "possibilities" in check, but not locked in the basement.

Water is the basic element required for life, right? Assuming the rest of the universe shares the same atomic structure (sure, why not?)... odds are water is elsewhere.

"Maybe" isn't a religious or scientific declaration. Just maybe.

Aren't there ice caps on the moon? And don't the various landscapes/terrain of Mars denote that water was once present?

Also if I remember correctly, as I think was stated earlier here, the major elements for life are not indigenious to our planet. They were blasted here by some star.

Ustwo · 09-25-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

Aren't there ice caps on the moon? And don't the various landscapes/terrain of Mars denote that water was once present?

Also if I remember correctly, as I think was stated earlier here, the major elements for life are not indigenious to our planet. They were blasted here by some star.

Well by default anything thats not hydrogen was produced by a star.

Sun Tzu · 09-26-2007, 02:27 PM

Will I think even you will be compelled to question your disbelief of ETs visiting earth after viewing this footage. Military aircraft cannot explain this.

DaveOrion · 09-26-2007, 09:14 PM

I think that will was saying the UFO's themselves are secret military aircraft, whether they're saucer shaped or whatever. As much as I hate to admit it, I'm inclined to agree, although there is no direct evidence. Or...... Roswell and all the UFO mythology that followed is true and the gov does have saucers from ET's, although there is no direct incontrovertible evidence of that either. Which ever way, I have no doubt that something is flying around out there. I'm glad I didnt have a camera at the time.....

RonRyan85 · 07-23-2008, 06:03 PM

There are reports that a UFO was seen over a Air Force missile silo in Montana during the cold war
and about 10 of the missiles went OFF LINE. This does not happen as they have multiple redundant
systems to keep power on to the rockets ...but according to the reports , it happened.

There have been many reports of big black,silent TRIANGULAR shaped UFOs that seem to move so
slow overhead that it could not be a man made aircraft. What are these things? If they are from a
research company/aircraft manufacturer on Earth.....would they be testing them over civilian homes
or military bases?

genuinegirly · 07-23-2008, 06:16 PM

Where does one find the reports of these triangular slow-flying ships?

Maybe the reason why we haven't sent people back to the moon or to Mars is because it will interfere with secret alien treaties.
(hey, this is Paranoia, I'm allowed to have fun and propose utterly unsubstantiated theories).

09-23-2007, 11:03 AM	#42 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Anybody remember when that Old Canadian defense minister came out guns blazing attesting the "fact" (not that I'm saying it is factual) that Aliens do exist and they've been coming here for sometime. And all of this with government knowledge and cooperation. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

09-23-2007, 11:23 AM	#44 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	http://www.ufodigest.com/parliament.html Here's a link to an article. Apperently he is really concerned that Bush might trigger at intergalatic war, because again, apperently Bush is building a forward base on the moon, with some offensive capabilities to montior all interstellar travel. On the one hand he was a defense minister, and thus has ties to Norad, I think he would be a person who would be in the "know". At the same time, forward moon bases that can shoot at intergalatic traffic is a little out there. __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

09-24-2007, 11:16 AM	#51 (permalink)
Crack Misanthropic Location: Ohio! yay!	Man1: Prove me wrong then! Man2: Noooooo... you have to prove you are right! Man1: But I can't! Man2: Well, I can't prove you are wrong either! Man1: Well... where does that take us? Man2: I hear Man3 is an idiot, lets go make fun of him! Man1: Prove he's an idiot! Man2: sigh And so the story goes... before it was religion.. and now it's UFOs. Back and forth the anger rages, a solution was not found... I hope that I am living in the up and coming ages when the debate is finally buried and forgotten deep within the ground. (I just made that up) __________________ Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex. ~Halx

09-24-2007, 11:31 AM	#52 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	While I, personally believe there are many civilizations "out there", I am forced to consider two very important factors. 1) Distances- Considering the closest candidate for a civilization is a minimum of 4 light years away, and the furthest possible known candidate is a little over 14 billion light years away...The Odds of a meeting of any two civilizations become slim, even with cheap interstellar travel. 2) Timing- Our species is a couple hundred thousand years old. Our civilization is a couple thousand years old. Our technological revolution in a couple hundred years old. Our planet is 4 billion years old. When taken in the context of Matched timing likelyhood, its extremely unlikely any two civilizations just happen to be at the same stage of evolution, let alone capable of noticing the other even exists. Now, considering the distances between any two peoples, combined with the Chance they just happen to see one another....what would you all place the odds at? Also....think about this. 100 yrs. from now some creature on another planet picks up I love Lucy on his ultra powerful TV reciever. He then decides to send a little something back to say hello. Do you really think we will even be listening to that old Radio technology in 200 yrs? Hell very soon we stop all analog broadcast in the US anyway. __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

09-24-2007, 12:56 PM	#55 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	(remembers that X-Files episode with the silicon based lifeform living in high temp environment and eating people's faces) Oooo... educational. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-23-2007, 11:15 AM	#43 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Sounds kinda like he lost it.

09-23-2007, 12:22 PM	#47 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	To be clear, I don't necessarily believe in extraterrestrial life, but I do believe in Martian!

09-23-2007, 07:45 PM	#48 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	The reason why aliens aren't real is the same reason why ghosts aren't real: there's no proof. To the people who believe in aliens and UFOs: do you believe in ghosts? From a sheer political and logical standpoint, there's another incredibly obvious reason why aliens and ghosts aren't real: if they were real, the entire world <I>would</I> know about them, and pretty much everything that is written and recorded in science books would have to be rewritten. If your neighbor has a haunted house, answer this question: why is the media not there? Why are scientists not there? Why is paranormal activity, which would turn science upside down, not replicable when we want it to be? If there really are UFOs, why have they never been successfully and repeatedly been recorded? There are organizations that are in existance to search and find UFOs and ghosts. Why have they failed? Why have they not succeeded <I>once</I> since history began? Because ghosts aren't real and aliens in spaceships aren't real. If either of these phenomenon were real, it would be the biggest scientific discovery that our world has ever seen. Once is all it takes. One spaceship. One ghost. ONE event that has been recorded or duplicated and the myths would be over...proof requires one simple example and the ghosts and UFOs won't give it up. Isn't it a bit odd that history has been recorded for thousand of years and we can't get a single damn ghost or alien to say hello? It's because they're not out there. I also believe that there is no way of telling or even guessing that extra terrestrial life exists. Many say that since there are billions of stars in our galaxy surely there are planets with life. Right? Riight?? The problem is, we don't know how lucky we are. We don't know if we're flukes or if we're the norm. Until we know that it's impossible to guess if life exists on any scale. Look at Mars. Look at Venus. Those are what Earth should have been, but by a stroke of luck we didn't melt or freeze.

09-26-2007, 02:27 PM	#58 (permalink)
Sun Tzu Conspiracy Realist Location: The Event Horizon	Will I think even you will be compelled to question your disbelief of ETs visiting earth after viewing this footage. Military aircraft cannot explain this. __________________ *To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking*

09-26-2007, 09:14 PM	#59 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	I think that will was saying the UFO's themselves are secret military aircraft, whether they're saucer shaped or whatever. As much as I hate to admit it, I'm inclined to agree, although there is no direct evidence. Or...... Roswell and all the UFO mythology that followed is true and the gov does have saucers from ET's, although there is no direct incontrovertible evidence of that either. Which ever way, I have no doubt that something is flying around out there. I'm glad I didnt have a camera at the time..... __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

07-23-2008, 06:03 PM	#60 (permalink)
RonRyan85 Insane Location: Lone Star State,USA	There are reports that a UFO was seen over a Air Force missile silo in Montana during the cold war and about 10 of the missiles went OFF LINE. This does not happen as they have multiple redundant systems to keep power on to the rockets ...but according to the reports , it happened. There have been many reports of big black,silent TRIANGULAR shaped UFOs that seem to move so slow overhead that it could not be a man made aircraft. What are these things? If they are from a research company/aircraft manufacturer on Earth.....would they be testing them over civilian homes or military bases?

07-23-2008, 06:16 PM	#61 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	Where does one find the reports of these triangular slow-flying ships? Maybe the reason why we haven't sent people back to the moon or to Mars is because it will interfere with secret alien treaties. (hey, this is Paranoia, I'm allowed to have fun and propose utterly unsubstantiated theories). __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy Last edited by genuinegirly; 07-23-2008 at 06:18 PM..