warrrreagl

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98

I haven't seen this on these boards yet, so what have you heard about this? This video (and the other related videos on the same page) are more proof that the plan is to weld the US, Canada, and Mexico into one North American Union, to counter the European Union. According to the video, Canadians are royally pissed about this and Americans seem to know nothing about it.

The problem is that to get it to work, US and Canadian working class people must lower their standards of living to match working class living standards in Mexico. According to every prediction I've ever heard, it will take 12 years of economic near-chaos to balance out the living standard discrepancy.

Maybe this is why immigration is such a non-issue to some people in power - they figure if we're headed toward this situation, then why bother kicking out people who are going to just turn right around and come back under the North American Union?

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Charlatan

This will not happen. Canadians would vote against it. There is no faster way to lose your sovereignty than to give up your ability to control your currency.

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Willravel

I will not support a single North American currency, and I don't like the idea of that giant highway either (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15497). In Europe, where there are many countries of mostly equal power, it might work, but the US is too economically strong in a hypothetical North American Union, and it would screw up Canada and even Mexico further.

Baraka_Guru

I've heard of this idea in passing...


Worst. Idea. Ever.


Hyperboles aside, our economies are too disparate. Willravel is right, it would screw up too many people.

For Canada, it would be akin to economic suicide. Our economy is relatively stable, why marry it to two other economies (being several times larger and with some stability issues)?

The question remains, though: would this be even worse than NAFTA?

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

ASU2003

Ben Franklin did this during the revolutionary war. They had revolution notes during the war that were worth something at the beginning of the war, but by the end, they were worthless. So they created a new currency to replace the old one and pay off all of the government debt.

It sounds like a way to kill the current dollar and get rid of the national debt all at one time. Screw paying for the Iraq war, just switch currencies... It might be 10 USD = 1 Amero at first, but if you wait, it will be 100 USD = 1 Amero and then 1000 USD = 1 Amero.

It's a good thing this is in paranoia...

warrrreagl

Care to go any further beyond blanket-ridicule as to why we're off-base in our fear of a gutted standard of living?

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Daniel_

Interesting that the EU is taken as a way of raising the std of living in the poorer countries to that of UK France and Germany (nad has indeed done that very well in Ireland, Spain and Greece), wheras this idea of a NAU is taken as a way of forcing the US Std of Living DOWN to the Mexican one.

Viva La Capitalisma!

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The_Jazz

Please don't make the same mistake I just did and read Daniel's "std" as meaning "sexually transmitted disease" instead of "standard" as he meant it. It gives his post an entirely different meaning!

I can't imagine the wealthy signing off on this. Since they're the folks that would be the movers and shakers behind this anyway, that probably makes it impossible.

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warrrreagl

As the conspiracy theory goes, the gap between wealthy and poor gets even larger, which makes the wealthy that much more powerful. Conspiracy folks have always warned us against allowing the ultra-rich (Tri-Lateral Commission, et al) to gut the middle class (which they started doing in the 80's when they started moving the factories overseas).

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ASU2003

I didn't mean it as an insult to your thread topic. I meant that it was a good thing that it is in paranoia so I caould write out my thoughts and not have to worry about checking them and providing references. And hopefully most stuff in the paranoia forum doesn't become true.

warrrreagl

Got it! Thanks.

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pan6467

George Noory (AM COAST TO COAST) did a whole show on this topic last night, extremely interesting.

I have no problem with opening the borders, everyone having the same currency and forming a "new world" or the like. However, I would object to the way it appears to be getting done.

I would argue that freedoms, having all people live a decent lifestyle and not destroying the middle class or lowering standards of living as the beginning of a greater world.

To tear down freedoms, allow fewer choices, expect the countries who have higher standards of living to drop those, to destroy education and to keep the workers and working class down, would in fact cause more problems, create more angers, prejudices and rebellions. So much so, I fear the world would be thrust into a dark ages again. Maybe to the point that all technology, medical knowledges etc. would be lost.

I understand free markets and capatilism in it's purest form, but that is NOT what we are seeing, IMHO. What we are seeing and experiencing as the powers that be try so hard to unify the world, is greed, destruction, taking away rights and calling rights "priveleges, that can be revoked", brainwashing people to believe that these issues are ok and acceptable.

As it stands now and having heard the show last night, no, I think that any unification is wrong until we, as a world, move forward and better lives, standards of living for all and get the greedy and self serving fucks out of power.

We have the technology, the space and the means to make sure there is no famine, no poverty and still maintain a class structure. Just because people aren't hungry and get a free education, doesn't mean that they will have no drive, as many neo-cons have been brainwashed to believe. This doesn't also mean that society has to give anything away for free.... it means if a person works hard, they are entitled to be at least able to live in a standard that they can afford and maintain.

The way the neo-cons have been brainwashed and the powers that be think is that noone deserves to live in the above mentioned way unless they have the education and job to do so. Therein lies the problem, if people cannot afford the education or have to take jobs that pay shit wages and have to pay the student loans and barely afford to live, they can't truly move upward now can they?

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Infinite_Loser

Well... Since this is paranoia...

If this were to happen, the dollar would have to collapse or depreciate quite a bit in value, sending the US economy (Along with quite a few others) into a downward spiral, at which point someone will come up with the 'idea' of creating a strong, singular currency betwen Mexico, the US and Canada. Seeing as how the economies of all three North American countries would be in a tailspin, it'd probably be adopted without much opposition.

Edit: Oh, did I forget to mention that I expect the Fed to be the driving force behind the complete collapse of the US dollar?

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pan6467

That was covered on the program and again on last nights. The plans for a single currency like the Euro have already been made it is only a matter of time now.

It sounds paranoid and far fetched but there is no doubt in my mind it is coming and it doesn't seem many here in the US truly seem to care.

But ask yourself, do you truly want to see America adopt Mexico's quality of life???? Cause no matter what they may say, that is what we'll get. We already have set lower wages and lower expectations for our people as opposed to 20+ years ago.

Businesses the last 20 years have not increased wages (oooo the minimum wage increases... ooooo) or kept the benefits of the past in place but rather have lowered them either by outsourcing (either overseas or to temp services), declaring they can't afford them or closing down. Compare the rise in median income before Reagan and then look at how it has moved since Reagan. Look at distribution of wealth. We already are well on our way to being Northern Mexico. We are not going to better their welfare and lifestyle and raise them to our level but lower ours to their level.

The powers that be already own both parties and it's a done deal here, Canada will soon follow unless they grow a spine and do whatever they can to join the Euroes.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

warrrreagl

Quoted for truth. As long as fat-ass lazy Americans kep getting an uninterrupted steady stream of Monday Night Football then they'll go along with anything.

At an airshow this past Spring, one of the old vets spoke out that when the US entered WWII in 1941 we had the 6th-rated air force in the world and in slightly over three years we had the best. With the dismantling of factories 20 years ago there is now no fucking way the US could ever duplicate that feat again. We simply don't "make" anything anymore and that type of economy has gutted the middle class. There was a time when those guys who worked the line at a factory made enough money to support a family and live comfortably WITHOUT the wife having to get a job unless she just wanted to.

The Amero type of economy widens the gap between the wealthy and everyone else and that's exactly what they want. There was a time when the US middle class was an awesome political and economic power and the only way those Amero bastards could pull this off was to eliminate it. Dismantle the factories, send them overseas, "retrain" the workers to waste away in some ridiculous service industry, and viola!

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Crack

I see Ayn Rand rolling over in her grave.

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Redlemon

Every time I read this thread title, I see Aneros, not Amero. If they actually implement this project and keep that name, I don't think I'll ever be able to keep a straight face again.

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Baraka_Guru

...which is fine, so long as she stays there.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

m0rpheus

I do take mild offense to that. One of the things we definetly have a spine about is that we as Canadians are NOT Americans. Our economy would have to be a total disaster to even think about giving up our own currency to join up with an North American one. Plus we'd have to be able to design the currency. Ours is much prettier.

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warrrreagl

That stuff doesn't fit in anybody's wallet!

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MexicanOnABike

what are you talking about? it's the same size as your green money. and if you mean the coins, well they're really cool.

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Not Right Now

This is by far the worst idea I've ever heard. Did they not notice the massive influx of Europeans coming into the East coast after the Euro was implemented? That was because the economy got so shakey that the middle class became poor and it was the Depresion all over again (on a less severe level of course).

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ericdubay

To those of you saying "it'll never pass" and "the Canadian public wouldn't vote for this." Bush, Martin and Fox have already met privately to set up the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (google SPP) twice now with the third meeting coming up in two weeks in Canada. This third meeting is again completely blocked off from media and protestors. Police have already stated they are setting up an 18 mile (25km) perimiter around the meeting! This isn't up to the public vote so don't hide behind "it'll never pass." The NAFTA Mexico-Canada super-highway is now beginning construction, their drawing up NAU flags and plans for the Amero are well underway. www amerocurrency com

Baraka_Guru

I don't know how it works in the U.S., but in Canada, voter grievances have been known to shift political power. And unlike the U.S., Canada is not effectively a two-party system. And Canada in some cases leans toward responsible government (as opposed to simply representative). In a case like this, it wouldn't be yet another order of the day.

NDP condemns Harper's push to sell out Canada:

“The previous Liberal government engaged Canada in a slow merger process with the United States and Stephen Harper is accelerating the agenda,” said [NDP Trade Critic Peter] Julian. “The NDP demands a full debate in Parliament on this issue. Everyday Canadians have the right to know what is being negotiated.”

[...]

“Canada is not the gas tank of the United States. NAFTA already locks us into supplying energy to the United States even if ordinary Canadians go without; a North American Union would only make this worse,” said [NDP Energy Critic Dennis] Bevington.

“Canadians should know that the SPP process supports a North American Union (NAU). The NDP rejects the secretive process surrounding these ongoing discussions. Canadians will never support a political ideology which aims at turning North America into a fortress for corporate interests and neglects the interests of ordinary Canadians. Canadian sovereignty is not for sale to the highest bidder and the federal government has no authority to push for a NAU without a mandate from Canadians,” said Julian.

Either way, it still doesn't change the fact that it is a bad idea.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

trickyy

replacing the dollar is a terrible idea ... and recall that even replacing the paper dollar with a coin has failed more than once. i think there is more support for replacing other countries' currencies with the dollar. not so much canada or mexico, but some of the latin american countries. many have already done so, in fact, as their respective currencies were too unstable.

as for the new highway, or any other new trade corridor, we probably need to examine our trade policies. but i'm not sure you can really stop this type of thing from happening unless china & mexico improve their working conditions ( + business costs) or we start passing strict protectionist laws (which don't really work in my view).

MSD

I can't find any reliable sources that confirm this; can you provide any?