Are Dinosaurs Completely Extinct? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ch'i · 09-01-2006, 12:40 AM

Awhile ago I remember seeing something about a dinosaur being found near New Zealand. When it disappeared from the news I assumed it was a fake or something.
After doing some research, and finding a few arcticles on similar findings, I'm starting to wonder if there is a possibility that the story is true.

Quote:

(Photo:This apparent Plesiosaur specimen washed ashore in Monterey Bay, California in 1925. It sported a twenty foot or so long neck and some witnesses described a number of legs on the creature. Are Plesiosaurs still living in the Pacific Ocean?)

"We now come to perhaps the most intriguing description of them all, given by one of the most scientifically competent of them all. Mind the reader, not most competent, but one of the most competent. His name was E.L. Wallace, a man who served twice as president of the Natural History Society of British Columbia. He had the following to say about the animal:

""My examination of the monster was quite thorough. I felt in its mouth and found it had no teeth. Its head is large and its neck fully twenty feet long. The body is weak and the tail is only three feet in length from the end of the backbone. These facts do away with the whale theory, as the backbone of a whale is far larger than any bone in this animal. Again, its tail is too weak for an animal of the deep and does away with that last version.

"With a bill like it possesses, it must have lived on herbage . . . I would call it a type of plesiosaurus.""

A stunning conclusion, no doubt. Later, Mr. Wallace offered the theory that the monster may have been preserved in a glacier for millions of years, finally being released by the gradual melting of ice, eventually ending up cast upon the shore in Monterey Bay."

Again in 1970...

Quote:

(Photo:This approximately 50 foot long creature washed ashore in Situate Harbor, Massachusetts during the night of November 16, 1970:

The most recent finding was by Japanese fishermen (Taiyo Fishery Co./Michihiko Yano) off the coast of New Zealand in 1977.

Unidentified animal caught in the net of fishing vessel off New Zealand.

Quote:

(Taiyo Fishery Co./Michihiko Yano)

On April 25, 1977, the Japanese fishing ship Zuiyo Maru, trawling for mackerel off the coast of New Zealand, snagged a rotting corpse at a depth of 900 feet and hauled in the remains of a beast that no one anywhere seemed to be able to identify.

"It's not a fish, whale, or any other mammal," said Professor Yoshinori Imaizumi of Japan's National Science Museum, in the Asahi Shimbun newspaper story that broke the news to the world. "It's a reptile, and the sketch looks very like a plesiosaur. This was a precious and important discovery for human beings. It seems to show that these animals are not extinct after all."

Nonsense! shouted back the American and British scientific communities, and not a few people in Japan, where the New Zealand monster was front-page news for weeks. Rather than face the stinking carcass of a dinosaur apparently deceased not more than thirty days, paleontologists, mammalogists and marine biologists all over the world advanced their own theories -- it was a seal, a whale, a basking shark, ...but no theory, whether prehistoric mundane, was completely adequate to explain away the 4,000-pound, 32-foot body, which was examined, photographed five times, clipped for tissue samples, and then dumped back into the sea for fear it would contaminate the Zuiyo Maru's catch of fish.

Yano first returned to Japan aboard a different ship on June 10 and asked his company darkroom to process the five color snapshots he had taken of the creature with a borrowed camera. Taiyo executives were fascinated by the strange beast and asked some local scientists what they made of the picture.

"It's not a turtle, nor a whale, nor a dolphin ... it's something we've never seen before," was the quick judgment.

Excited now, the Taiyo officials brought Yano before a second blue-ribbon panel of eminent marine scientists to try to ascertain what the strange beast had been. The panel discussion that took place admittedly sounds as if it were lifted from a budget- production monster movie produced for American drive-ins and daytime television, but everyone concerned was dead serious. Yano answered questions from Professors Ikuo Obata and Hiroshi Ozaki of Japan's National Science Museum and Professor Toshio Kasuya, of Tokyo University's Marine Research Center.

"It was caught in a trawl net," Yano explained. "The surface of the body was loose and had white fat. I could see flesh here and there, but it was dark red and was rotten. There were no internal organs. Judging from the condition of the red meat, we think it was alive until a month ago. The fat was pulling away in threads like tofu (soybean curd) and the deck turned white. It smelled terrible. The smell was not that of fish, but of an animal. At first I thought it was a whale. I reported, 'It's a rotten whale. What shall we do?' The captain (Akira Tanaka) ordered 'Pull it up as it is.' We wanted to release it in the sea outside the net basin ... It's common practice not to pick up the rotten dead body of a creature because the ships deal with food for human beings . . .

"The crewmen knew that if we picked it up, we'd have to clean and sanitize the decks. But we got it untangled from the net and pulled it out with ropes around the middle of the body. The rope wasn't well handled and it fell suddenly. So we lifted the neck and I took the pictures. Cameras are my hobby, but I didn't have my own camera, so I had to borrow one."

At this point, Yano added, there were eight men on deck, five on the bridge, and two working the net winch. The creature was seen by all of them and several others who heard the noise and looked out of curiosity. In all, it was observed by eighteen crewmen.

Convinced that the creature was unusual, Yano measured parts of it. The head, he said, was 45 centimeters long, the neck 1.5 meters, and the four fins were 1 meter long, while the body from the head to the base of the tail measured 6 meters. He noted carefully that the well-developed vertebratae were about 45 centimeters long and 15 centimeters thick.

"How about the size of the front and back fins," Obata asked.

"I don't think there was much difference," Yano said. "If I try to remember, I think the front was bigger . . . I regret you can't see this well from the picture," he added, "but the most interesting part is the back fin. From seeing only these pictures, it's possible this could look like a rotten seal. In the Antarctic they have the southern elephant seal, which grows to 3.5 meters but the size doesn't fit."

"If this had been a seal, the tail would be too long," Kasuya said.

"If this had been a reptile, the number of bones around the neck should be greater, according to the drawing," Ozaki put in, referring to a simple sketch with measurements that Yano had drawn after his return to Japan some two months after actually examining the creature.

A journalist covering the panel had a question of his own perhaps inspired by the monster movies that thrilled or bored so many youngsters in the 1950s and 1960s.

"What about the theory that a prehistoric creature, entombed in a glacier during the Ice Age, was melted out and started to float? Was it moving in the sea, or was it at the bottom of the ocean?"

"I don't know," Yano answered. "It was picked up in the trawl net. In the ship, many of the crewmen thought it was a turtle whose shell had peeled off."

Then the reporter asked the ominous question could the New Zealand monster have been a dinosaur?

"It's easier to survive in the sea than on land," Obata replied cautiously. "One theory is that the creature is a mammal, and the other is that it is a long-necked monster (in other words, a plesiosaur). And there are many points that don't fit the mammal theory. Within my knowledge, it looks like a plesiosaur. But I can't say for sure unless I have the skull and vertebrae to examine."

"I refuse to accept this Nessie theory," Ozaki disagreed, using the name humorously applied to the Loch Ness Monster of Scotland, goal of both Japanese and Anglo-American expeditions. "If it really exists, I want to see its head. If it's not a sea monster, it could be either a mammal or a fish, but I don't think it's a fish.

"If it were a shark, the spine would be smaller," Kasuva concurred. "And the neck itself is too long as shown in the picture. I think we can exclude the fish theory."

"It must be either a mammal or a reptile," Obata said. "But with the materials we have, we can't judge which one."

"If it's a reptile, it looks like a plesiosaur," Ozaki said. "The Plesiosauri had fins in the front and back, and the neck and tail weren't too terribly long."

Obata enlarged on this for the benefit of the reporters. "During prehistoric times, there were two types of seagoing dinosaurs, one with a big head and a short neck (the mosasaur), and the other with a small head and long neck. But this creature has a small head and the number of neck bones (based on the sketch) is so much less...

"If this is a long-necked monster, it may be a new kind," Zaki suggested. "It's possible it has evolved over 70,000,000 years."

"There's one thing I can't believe," Kasuya said thoughtfully. "We've been whaling in that area for the past hundred years. I'm puzzled that there were no witnesses until now."

"When an animal dies and rots, it looks like something else, even though we're used to seeing the creature when it's alive," Zaki posited.

The journalist, still perhaps thinking of the nostalgic movie monsters of his boyhood, kept injecting the frozen-body theory. "There's a theory that it was frozen eons ago in the Antarctic and drifted out after being unfrozen."

"Mammals can be found in ice," Obata explained, "but the plesiosaur prospered during the era when the environment was warm and congenial."

"How about the idea that it was mummified in the bottom of the deep sea and at low temperatures, and then started to float?" the reporter persisted.

"There are living creatures even at the bottom of the ocean, and it could have been eaten by them," Kasuya disagreed, meaning that the creature's flesh couldn't have survived 70,000,000 years.

"From the data we have collected, we seem to be able to come only this far and no further," Obata said in summation. "There are plenty of unknown things left in the sea."

The three scientists urged Yano to encourage Taiyo Fisheries Ltd. to recover the creature, but Yano, good company man that he was, was frank enough to admit that this would be unlikely.

"We are making an effort to recapture it," he said. "But through my experience, I can tell you that we usually can't even retrieve the trawl net when we drop it in the ocean by mistake. I wonder if we can find it again."

This temperate discussion, despite the rather sensational subject and the inescapable resemblance to any one of a dozen science-fiction movies, wasn't quoted in the foreign press. What western newspapers did pick up was the surprisingly intense public reaction to the finding of the creature.

Dr. Wheeler, of course, was almost certainly unaware of the panel discussion in which Yano described measuring the head and the vertebratae, which convinced the Japanese scientists, not mere humble fishermen, that the New Zealand monster was no shark. But the weight of disbelief among scientists elsewhere impressed even the Japanese.

Besides taking pictures of the creature, Yano had snipped some tissue samples of fibrous material from one of the fins for analysis. As soon as he returned, tests began on these specimens. About a week after the news of the monster first broke on July 21, the early reports came in.

Using a method known as ion-exchange chromatography to determine the amino-acid structure of the protein in the fibrous strands Yano had given him, Dr. Shigeru Kimura, a biochemist at the Tokyo University school of fisheries, found that for every 1,000 units of amino acids in the monster tissue, 40 were of a type called tyrosine. The amino-acid structure of a blue shark's fin averaged 44 units of tyrosine per 1,000 of amino acids which, Kimura said, represented a remarkable correlation.

"Among fish, it is known that only sharks and rays have the type of protein called elastoidin," Dr. Kimura said. "But as for reptiles, I do not think there is relevant data, even abroad." He added that the protein could not have come from a mammal's skin or hair. Thus, chemically, the monster may have been either a fish or, possibly, a reptile, but not a mammal.

No sooner had this discovery appeared in the press than new feedback came in from abroad. A Scottish zoologist, Dr. Alan Fraser-Brunner, aquarium curator at the Edinburgh Zoo, blasted the Nessie theory. He said the body was "at once recognizable to a zoologist as that of a dead sea lion ... that the estimate of length and weight must be an exaggeration, and that . . . "as seems to be the rule with 'monsters' we are left with no evidence except an indistinct photograph, but it is clear enough to show that the animal was mammalian. Nothing about it resembles a plesiosaur, which was a reptile."

Dr. Fraser-Brunner's analysis and the Japanese chemical analysis must have crossed in the mail. Since the chemical content of the fibrous sample ruled out any possibility of mammalian origin, one would have thought that his assertion that the creature had been a seal would have prompted amusement. Instead, several Japanese, mostly laymen, agreed with him. Others took the position that the creature was a shark, ignoring Yano's description of a clearly defined spinal column, the absence of any dorsal fin, and the small size of the examined head, none of which fit the morphological features of a shark.

"Even if the tissue contains the same protein as the shark's, it is rash to say that the monster is a shark," said Professor Tokio Shikama, a paleontologist at Yokohama National University. "The finding is not enough to refute a speculation that the monster is a plesiosaur."

In the end, everybody's individual preconceptions won out. Those who were prepared to believe in living plesiosauri were convinced or nearly so, while those who refused to believe found nothing to change their minds. For the open-minded skeptics, or for those who were just plain curious, the New Zealand monster remains one of the most tantalizing enigmas of the sea.

Note that all cases went unresolved.

It would be more likely for a dinosaur to survive a meteor strike, or desease, if it were underwater. There was also a case where a type of prehistoric fish, called a Coelacanth, said to have been extinct about eighty million years (10 million years before the Phlesiosaur was said to have gone extinct), was caught off the mouth of the Chalumna River in South Africa in 1938, near Madagascar. Since then over 200 coelacanth have been caught. So the question I ask you is: Did the Plesiosaur suffer extinction, or do they still survive today?

Sources:www.gennet.org/facts/nessie.html,s8int.com/dino1.html, www.pibburns.com/cryptost/coelacan.htm

Cynthetiq · 09-01-2006, 02:18 AM

the last one that I saw like the one on the japanses fishing vessel, was confirmed via DNA as a whale.

Fly · 09-01-2006, 03:52 AM

they are still kicking around.........the Sturgeon in the Fraser River here are freakin' huge man.

cellophanedeity · 09-01-2006, 09:25 AM

I hope dinosaurs are still around! They're awesome.

Charlatan · 09-01-2006, 09:49 AM

Dinosaurs are still around... they are now just called birds.

Isn't evolution a cool thing?

Willravel · 09-01-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Dinosaurs are still around... they are now just called birds.

Isn't evolution a cool thing?

What do you think about this prehistoric, aquatic creature?

I think it's really facinating. I remember reading a lot of information, a lot for and a lot against the validity of the '77 case. I am left wondering if it is possible for us to simply have missed them in our various underwater treks. I hope they still exist, because they are facinating creatures and they might hold the key to surviving the next large meteor strike (assuming we're now sure a meteorite killed the dinosaurs, I haven't kept up on that).

Also, we could see if Jurassic Park: Marine World is a feasable attraction.

Ch'i · 09-01-2006, 01:08 PM

The thing that really got me curious was that the Coelacanth fish was supposed to have been extinct for 10 million years longer than the Plesiosaur, and they were found alive and kickin' just 68 years ago. And if evolution is right, they should probably be extreemly fitted to their environment by now; 70,000,000 years to evolve(!). They are also deep sea creatures, so just those three points make it seem somewhat practical that they may still exist.

Lady Sage · 09-24-2006, 03:31 PM

Crocks are smaller versions of their huge cousins from the age of the dinos. Sure, why not? There are many species we have not yet found in the deep sea. We know giant squid exist but we do not know where they live. Who are we to be nay sayers?

Willravel · 09-24-2006, 03:59 PM

I hope that they are tremendously intelligent. I'd kill to have a conversation with a member of a society that has survived over 65 million years.

robot_parade · 09-24-2006, 06:37 PM

Dinosaurs are different from crocodiles and other lizards, as well as birds, of course. The closest living relatives to dinosaurs are generally considered to be birds, as Charlatan alludes to. The caeleocanth is a fish, of course, not a dinosaur. It's a great example of a species that hasn't undergone significant change for quite awhile...it has apparently found a nice, stable niche in which to exist, with little selection pressure to adapt.

It's possible that there are other creatures that have remained relatively unchanged in a similar manner. Probably found in the oceans, since there are very, very, few areas on land that haven't been explored at least a little bit. But it's important to remember that these creatures have just as much evolutionary 'advancement' behind them as any other creature alive today...it's just that some species have adapted faster than others due to differences in selection pressure.

Another bit of evolution trivia - people did not 'evolve from monkeys', at least in the sense of the modern species of monkeys alive today. Evolution says that monkeys and people have a (relatively recent) common ancestor. A bit further back, and we share a common ancestor with pigs. And crocodiles, and celeocanths, and (probably) blue-green algae.

As a corollary, humans aren't any more 'advanced' than a bacteria, in evolutionary terms. Both us and a given species of bacteria have had the exact same amount of 'evolution' to get where we are today. We've just adapted to different niches.

And, in the long term, I personally have a theory that what we've done recently is turned evolution upside down...one of the most important traits that was selected *for* in humans (intelligence) is now somewhat correlated with having *fewer* children. So the fact that, at least today in america, relatively stupid people seem to tend to have more children that the more intelligent ones may actually serve as a 'cap' on human intelligence. Of course, this assumes a lot of things - that intelligence is highly tied to genetics, and that the current trend will continue for an evolutionary significant length of time.

sub zero · 09-24-2006, 07:23 PM

Its almost been proven that dinos are still around but just not in the mammoth godzilla like creatures we all invision. Who knows what really lies at the bottom of the ocean and some of the darker lakes.

Ustwo · 09-24-2006, 08:20 PM

When I was a kid I saw some of these pictures and thought 'dinosaur' now that I'm an adult with biology training I only wish I could think that. Saddly they aint.

Take a good look at the 'head' look at it closely. You can see that the head may just really be a thicker lump of tissue. The spine is still apparently visible where the animals nose would be, plus the tissue itself doesn't remind me of what you would see in a head. My guess is its a whale or basking/whale shark thats just baddly decomposed.

I've seen how basking sharks decompose and they look almost exactly like a rotted plesiosaurs, at least what you would think one should look like. Most of the head area is gills which quickly rot away, leaving a small head and a long neck.

I'd LOVE for this to be a real plesiosaurs but the odds of there being a large, airbreathing marine animal is pretty damn slim at this point. I would be surprised if we don't find more living fossils in the sea and hell we may even find a dinasaur, but I can't see it being one of the mega dinosaurs. If we are really really lucky, some small lizard in some isolated area will get a geneticly classified and turn up to be closely related to dinosaurs, but I'm afraid thats the only dinosaur you will find.

Birds may in fact be part of the dinosaur genetic tree, and I think that theory is correct, but its not quite the same thing.

Also look at those yellow fibers around the 'fin' that looks a lot like whale baleen. Its visible in other shots as well.

That I found with a random google image search, looks not unlike that first picture.

Edit:blah they caught me stealing their bandwidth so that one picture is gone and I'm way to lazy to regoogle

Also I should really do these when I'm awake and not at 2AMish, ugh the typos.

hrandani · 09-24-2006, 11:12 PM

Ustwo is right; I've taken classes in marine biology and they always bring up how decomposing basking sharks look exactly like those pictures above.

It's really remarkable. But I used to think it was a sea serpent. Heh.

pacaveli · 09-27-2006, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Sage

Crocks are smaller versions of their huge cousins from the age of the dinos. Sure, why not? There are many species we have not yet found in the deep sea. We know giant squid exist but we do not know where they live. Who are we to be nay sayers?

Actually they did manage to capture one on video, i watched it in my high school zoology class. It was pretty impressive

Lady Sage · 09-27-2006, 05:32 PM

Giant squids are the bomb but I wouldnt want to run into one.

I would like to think that if that isnt a relative of a Plesiosaur that it would at least be the remains of a large Goblin Fish.

Ch'i · 09-27-2006, 07:34 PM

Ran into this Goblin Shark article. Now that's weird.

Lady Sage · 09-27-2006, 07:55 PM

Awesome pics! How odd would it be to find that in your fishing net???

blahblah454 · 09-27-2006, 09:40 PM

I love this stuff. I hope its a dinosaur, and even if its just a whale its still neat to dream.

wow that Goblin Shark is creepy looking!

09-01-2006, 02:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	the last one that I saw like the one on the japanses fishing vessel, was confirmed via DNA as a whale. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

09-01-2006, 03:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
Fly see the links to my music? Location: Beautiful British Columbia	they are still kicking around.........the Sturgeon in the Fraser River here are freakin' huge man. __________________ BASTARD SterlingStudios

09-01-2006, 09:49 AM	#5 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Dinosaurs are still around... they are now just called birds. Isn't evolution a cool thing? __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

09-01-2006, 01:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ch'i Artist of Life	The thing that really got me curious was that the Coelacanth fish was supposed to have been extinct for 10 million years longer than the Plesiosaur, and they were found alive and kickin' just 68 years ago. And if evolution is right, they should probably be extreemly fitted to their environment by now; 70,000,000 years to evolve(!). They are also deep sea creatures, so just those three points make it seem somewhat practical that they may still exist. Last edited by Ch'i; 09-01-2006 at 01:13 PM..

09-24-2006, 03:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
Lady Sage Mistress of Mayhem Location: Canton, Ohio	Crocks are smaller versions of their huge cousins from the age of the dinos. Sure, why not? There are many species we have not yet found in the deep sea. We know giant squid exist but we do not know where they live. Who are we to be nay sayers? __________________ If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

09-01-2006, 09:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
cellophanedeity Heliotrope Location: A warm room	I hope dinosaurs are still around! They're awesome.

09-24-2006, 03:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I hope that they are tremendously intelligent. I'd kill to have a conversation with a member of a society that has survived over 65 million years.

09-24-2006, 06:37 PM	#10 (permalink)
robot_parade Junkie Location: San Antonio, TX	Dinosaurs are different from crocodiles and other lizards, as well as birds, of course. The closest living relatives to dinosaurs are generally considered to be birds, as Charlatan alludes to. The caeleocanth is a fish, of course, not a dinosaur. It's a great example of a species that hasn't undergone significant change for quite awhile...it has apparently found a nice, stable niche in which to exist, with little selection pressure to adapt. It's possible that there are other creatures that have remained relatively unchanged in a similar manner. Probably found in the oceans, since there are very, very, few areas on land that haven't been explored at least a little bit. But it's important to remember that these creatures have just as much evolutionary 'advancement' behind them as any other creature alive today...it's just that some species have adapted faster than others due to differences in selection pressure. Another bit of evolution trivia - people did not 'evolve from monkeys', at least in the sense of the modern species of monkeys alive today. Evolution says that monkeys and people have a (relatively recent) common ancestor. A bit further back, and we share a common ancestor with pigs. And crocodiles, and celeocanths, and (probably) blue-green algae. As a corollary, humans aren't any more 'advanced' than a bacteria, in evolutionary terms. Both us and a given species of bacteria have had the exact same amount of 'evolution' to get where we are today. We've just adapted to different niches. And, in the long term, I personally have a theory that what we've done recently is turned evolution upside down...one of the most important traits that was selected for in humans (intelligence) is now somewhat correlated with having fewer children. So the fact that, at least today in america, relatively stupid people seem to tend to have more children that the more intelligent ones may actually serve as a 'cap' on human intelligence. Of course, this assumes a lot of things - that intelligence is highly tied to genetics, and that the current trend will continue for an evolutionary significant length of time.

09-24-2006, 07:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
sub zero Addict Location: The one state that doesn't have black outs: TEXAS BABY!!!	Its almost been proven that dinos are still around but just not in the mammoth godzilla like creatures we all invision. Who knows what really lies at the bottom of the ocean and some of the darker lakes. __________________ Did you Google it yet? Join the TFP Typing team!!

09-24-2006, 08:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	When I was a kid I saw some of these pictures and thought 'dinosaur' now that I'm an adult with biology training I only wish I could think that. Saddly they aint. Take a good look at the 'head' look at it closely. You can see that the head may just really be a thicker lump of tissue. The spine is still apparently visible where the animals nose would be, plus the tissue itself doesn't remind me of what you would see in a head. My guess is its a whale or basking/whale shark thats just baddly decomposed. I've seen how basking sharks decompose and they look almost exactly like a rotted plesiosaurs, at least what you would think one should look like. Most of the head area is gills which quickly rot away, leaving a small head and a long neck. I'd LOVE for this to be a real plesiosaurs but the odds of there being a large, airbreathing marine animal is pretty damn slim at this point. I would be surprised if we don't find more living fossils in the sea and hell we may even find a dinasaur, but I can't see it being one of the mega dinosaurs. If we are really really lucky, some small lizard in some isolated area will get a geneticly classified and turn up to be closely related to dinosaurs, but I'm afraid thats the only dinosaur you will find. Birds may in fact be part of the dinosaur genetic tree, and I think that theory is correct, but its not quite the same thing. Also look at those yellow fibers around the 'fin' that looks a lot like whale baleen. Its visible in other shots as well. That I found with a random google image search, looks not unlike that first picture. Edit:blah they caught me stealing their bandwidth so that one picture is gone and I'm way to lazy to regoogle Also I should really do these when I'm awake and not at 2AMish, ugh the typos. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. Last edited by Ustwo; 09-25-2006 at 05:22 AM..

09-24-2006, 11:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
hrandani Insane	Ustwo is right; I've taken classes in marine biology and they always bring up how decomposing basking sharks look exactly like those pictures above. It's really remarkable. But I used to think it was a sea serpent. Heh.

09-27-2006, 05:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
Lady Sage Mistress of Mayhem Location: Canton, Ohio	Giant squids are the bomb but I wouldnt want to run into one. I would like to think that if that isnt a relative of a Plesiosaur that it would at least be the remains of a large Goblin Fish. __________________ If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

09-27-2006, 07:34 PM	#16 (permalink)
Ch'i Artist of Life	Ran into this Goblin Shark article. Now that's weird.

09-27-2006, 07:55 PM	#17 (permalink)
Lady Sage Mistress of Mayhem Location: Canton, Ohio	Awesome pics! How odd would it be to find that in your fishing net??? __________________ If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

09-27-2006, 09:40 PM	#18 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	I love this stuff. I hope its a dinosaur, and even if its just a whale its still neat to dream. wow that Goblin Shark is creepy looking!